Sat nav with a capital "T"

raymundo:

the nodding donkey:

Harry Monk:

Bking:
So why no signal when your at sea or on a plane.
If the “satellites” are “transmitting” straight to your phone or whatever why no signal at sea?

Somebody who pilots a ship has already told you that there is a signal at sea.

*pedant mode on *

Unless Raymundo is a Pilot, and guides a ship in or out of a harbour or across a dangerous transit, he is not really piloting the ship.

pedant mode off

I do the pilotage everywhere we go as there is no-one else about to do it, Saturday noon time we are sailing from Troon for the Isle of Raasay to load a freight of logs back for Girvan and I will appreciate the GPS signals that Bking says do not exist at sea …

Sounds like a great job, is it? All that scenery.


Yes the scenery is quite nice at times (random photo)

Bking:

m1cks:

Bking:
So why no signal when your at sea or on a plane.
If the “satellites” are “transmitting” straight to your phone or whatever why no signal at sea?

You will have a GPS signal when at sea or in the air. What you won’t have is things like the map information stored on your device. (I’m assuming you mean a mobile as you keep referring to cell towers) the only reason you’d need cell towers for the GPS is because they’re providing the mapping information to your device.
If GPS technology is so inaccurate then how come missiles can be fired and have such accuracy when hitting a target?

Like the “smart bombs” the filth used in Iraq which were “GPS” guided?

Shame less than 2% came within 500 meters of their target and blew a kid and his mother to bits instead.A bargain at 500,000 dollars a “pop”.

Who is ‘the filth’, and can you please link us to the information you base your 2% comment on…? :unamused:

Conor:

Bking:
So why no signal when your at sea or on a plane.

Are you deliberately trying to prove you’re even more stupid?

You get signal at sea if you’re stood on deck. If you can stand outside a plane you’d get one there as well. Radio signals tend not to travel too well through solid metal. The ships and planes themselves don’t have a problem because they’ve got external GPS antennas.

How come these “satellites” never need maintenance,how come they never get struck by micro meteors,how come their batteries never fail(and before you give me some crap about solar panels if they are in geosynchronous orbit they must be in the dark half the time)How do they put them in orbit,these things dont have engines and the “shuttle” only goes up to 400 miles,How do they maintain a none decaying orbit without engines not just over weeks but 20 years.Why does your phone have to be within 10 km of a cell mast to have an operational signal yet these little “wonders” can transmit over thousands of kilometers at less than one kilowatt to the same device.Cell masts transmit at 100 times this power(look at the cables that power them)yet only have a range of 10km.Why would the American military provide all this for "free."Why is their no “sat nav” signal in the Sahara,Gobi or Atacama deserts.Why can you have 2 different devices in the same truck giving different speeds if they are “accurate” to 1 meter.Both working off the same satellites or maybe different cell net providers towers?Why does Google earth turn into a CGI image above a set height.If its a view from a “satellite” why cant it be a picture.

Jesus [zb] christ there’s some monumental stupid there.

Deep breath…

They don’t need maintenance because they’re disposible. They get replaced when they fail. Whilst some are in the dark, not all are in the dark at the same time and as long as at least two and ideally three are above the radio horizon then GPS continues to work. They get put in orbit by all kinds of space vehicles, not just the Shuttle. They have small engines on them to keep them in position.

In regards to the radio signal, I have confirmed contacts on HF to Argentina, 7500 miles away, with just 1 watt. The noise floor at VHF and above is far lower than at HF so you can do it with an even weaker signal as you’ve not got at least -120dBm of noise to get through. Cell masts have a far greater range than 10km - my friend is sending internet access from one tower at Octon where Orange has their gear on to another tower at Caistor for his trunk radio system and that is linking to a tower at Sheffield 53 miles away using 5Ghz for a distance of and far less power than Orange. What doesn’t have a far greater range than 10km is the [zb] mobile phone you’re using because if it did you’d not be able to make calls due to the power levels meaning the RF power density when you have it next to your head would cause you injury.

The American military provide it for free because at the end of the day someone would crack it and its one of those things that is in the interest of everyone, the same as the internet which was started by DARPA. There are Satnav signals in the Sahara and Gobi deserts.

You have devices giving two different speeds precisely because their accuracy is to 1 metre. If it was accurate to a millimeter they’d read the same.

Google images doesn’t change to CGI above a set height, it changes to it BELOW a set height because they use it to show hi-res 3D images of specific buildings and other detail - something which they’ve been doing for ages.

Are you going for dumbest person on trucknet award?

Edit: Just read your follow up dumbass post.

VHF and above signals are line of sight and do not travel well through buildings. If the position of the GPS satellites are such that there is a solid object like buildings or mountains or even the body of a plane or the hull of a ship between you and the satellites then you don’t get a signal from them. There are only 24 active satellites at any one time placed in 6 orbital planes 60 degrees apart hence you can get areas such as city centres where driving around the buildings can block the signals without them needing to be 26000km high given the 60 degree spacing. I’ll add basic geometry to the list of things you don’t know anything about.[/quoteSo wont pass through an aluminium fuselage but will pass through a steel cab!One device reads 84 kph other device reads 88 kph and they are “accurate” to a meter!Small engines on them,so small the fuel lasts 20 years!You get a signal stood on deck do you,does cigarette smoke stop the signal because I was stood having a ■■■ at the back and it looked like the sky above me!And where do these “satellites” go when they “die”?
As they are still well within the Earths gravity well think they would tend to fall down as their poor little engines gasp their last breath.Never seen one fall but of course they would “burn up” in the atmosphere but never seen one do that either!
In summary we got little space" boxes" with little tiny engines that get taken out into "space by “allsorts” of space rockets.These little engines dont use fuel they us fairy dust and when they break down we just send up another little box on starship enterprise which can place them in exactly the right positon at the right speed and at the right angle.Now sometimes these little space boxes argue and one tells somebody he is doing 80 but its mate tells him he is doing 85.They never fall down because they are perpetual motion machines whos orbits never decay.These little space boxes have weird little voices that can talk through some types of steel but not others and never ever through aluminium!
And IM an idiot!!!

Bluey Circles:

sonflowerinwales:
Just a little technical input…
Our satellites are planned to last 12 years, the batteries are charged by solar wings, when in the dark they use battery power to keep going. And the battery is a big barsteward too…
There is enough fuel onboard (68kg) to keep them in the correct orbit, once no longer needed they are either sent into a “graveyard” orbit or moved closer to earth where the orbit decays and they break up over the Pacific ocean.
But, there are communication satellites orbiting earth with no fuel onboard that are still working after 30+ years. (no fuel so unable to move them)
Any more questions?
Cheers
Paul

I thought most satellites and probes use mini nuclear power packs, wonderful little generators, can deliver 100+ watts for 40 or 50 years (maybe more)

You been watching star trek again?So now they got their own fusion reactors, big batteries and solar"wings".You sure they aint got a “moon buggy” on there like the lunar module.
Love to know where them “heroes” hid that piece of “wonderment” on the way to the moon.
Just seemed to “appear” all of a sudden like they rolled it out the garage!

Captain Caveman 76:

Bking:
How come these “satellites” never need maintenance,how come they never get struck by micro meteors,how come their batteries never fail(and before you give me some crap about solar panels if they are in geosynchronous orbit they must be in the dark half the time)How do they put them in orbit,these things dont have engines and the “shuttle” only goes up to 400 miles,How do they maintain a none decaying orbit without engines not just over weeks but 20 years.

Think of something in orbit as always falling but never getting any closer to the earth. Because as it travels forward, gravity pulls it towards earth at the same rate as the curvature of the earth (the earth isnt flat really) moves away from it. Arthur C Clarke derived the geostationary, or “Clarke Orbit” way back in the sixties IIRC.

Because there is little resistance at the height these things operate at, Newton’s laws of motion are clearly apparent. Most notably, an object in motion will remain in motion until a force acts upon it. Therefore, with careful calculation, an object placed in the right place at the right speed by the delivery vehicle will stay where it’s put. (See gravity above)

There are some people cleverer than you or I out there, I find it worth listening to them sometimes.

A yes dear Arthur Never did quite “explain” how he became such an expert on “telecommunication” satellites did he?Maybe he studied between writing crap science fiction novels.And there is me thinking that “gravity” was a force or does gravity ignore these miraculous “satellites”.See force is measured in Newtons and what is Mr Newtons most famous discovery? Thats it “GRAVITY” the “force” that pulls things down out the sky(except satellites of course they fly with little angel wings)

Bluey Circles:

Bking:
How? A reflective sticker is put on a tyre,this is read by a laser,the wheels are on rollers of a set diameter.The wheels turn the rollers which gives a set distance,the laser counts out a precise number of turns of the wheel.Now I know arithmetic might not be your strong point but if you divide the number of rotations of the wheel into the distance the rollers have turned ( it may appear to be magic )you arrive at a K factor.This tells you that a certain number of rotations of that wheel in a set time interval will produce a speed of X kph.
So if the wheels circumference is say 2 meters and it rotates 5 times per second then in one hour it will cover 36 km get it?
Now this is a physical fact measured on a 50 grand machine but of course your £49.99 “sat nav” is far more accurate isnt it cos the pixies tell you so.

Sounds straight forward but it isn’t just that simple, aggravating factors such as tyre pressure and load on the tyre can make that diameter smaller, and then further confusion when the centrifugal forces at speed try to make the diameter bigger.

Before the electronic wizardry of GPS , speed tests were done with a bicycle wheel mounted on a frame at the rear of a vehicle, this way the inaccuracies of the larger tyre could be ruled out.

Eric Rambler:
Course satnav must show an inaccurate speed when you are going up or down hill as you are not travelling in a straight line.

at max gradient on a motorway 1:25 the error caused by the incline will be around 0.08%, so a true 56 may read at 56.04, so not worth bothering about.

Never heard of the Doppler effect eh?You know them yellow things at the side of the road that use it to steal your money.

Bking:
So why no signal when your at sea or on a plane.
If the “satellites” are “transmitting” straight to your phone or whatever why no signal at sea?

GPS definitely works at sea.

It used to be for military use only so prior to it coming into civilian use, commercial shipping used to rely on Decca or Loran-C as a means of fixing their position when out of sight of land. Those systems relied on shore based radio masts and not satellites. Decca was taken offline around the year 2000 and is no longer in use, not sure about Loran-C but they are both antiquated systems compared to GPS. GPS it is still owned and operated by the US military who can switch it off at any time if they so wish. This is why today’s mariners are still trained in celestial-navigation and how to use a sextant although it is something quickly forgotten if not practiced and in a way can be compared to roping and sheeting, ie a dying art!

Differential GPS or DGPS is even more accurate than GPS and it is commonly used in the oil industry for things like diving or shuttle tanker operations. That system uses the usual GPS satellite data along with an extra signal from a land based transmitter for more accuracy.

el_presidente:

Bking:

m1cks:

Bking:
So why no signal when your at sea or on a plane.
If the “satellites” are “transmitting” straight to your phone or whatever why no signal at sea?

You will have a GPS signal when at sea or in the air. What you won’t have is things like the map information stored on your device. (I’m assuming you mean a mobile as you keep referring to cell towers) the only reason you’d need cell towers for the GPS is because they’re providing the mapping information to your device.
If GPS technology is so inaccurate then how come missiles can be fired and have such accuracy when hitting a target?

Like the “smart bombs” the filth used in Iraq which were “GPS” guided?

Shame less than 2% came within 500 meters of their target and blew a kid and his mother to bits instead.A bargain at 500,000 dollars a “pop”.

Who is ‘the filth’, and can you please link us to the information you base your 2% comment on…? :unamused:

I’ve just remembered who BKING is.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=128913&hilit=Holocaust&start=60

The Internet never forgets…

IndigoJo:
To come back to the original point, I find that some trucks consistently give a higher speed reading on the speedo and the tacho than my sat-nav does, whatever the gradient. It’s typically 3mph out at top speed, so it’ll think it’s doing 56mph when it’s really doing 53. Scanias are the worst offenders, and when I mentioned this to a Scania repair man he said my sat-nav was wrong. Are they deliberately calibrating them 3mph out so that they get more accurate as the tyres wear? The problem is absent or much less pronounced on other makes of truck (including MAN).

i doubt it, tyre wear on a truck does not make that much of a difference. on a typical truck tyre you would need 10mm of wear to make 1mph difference to the speedometer…

Calibrating your own trucks speedometer for accuracy is very easy. Set your onboard computer to calculate your average speed between a couple of motorway bridges. (try to use two that are about 10km apart where your speed will not vary too much). note down from the on board computer your average speed, distance and time. Then use an online mapping program to calculate the true distance, you can then compare the figures. (the distance calculated from the map and the time on the trucks computer are the only two figures that will be accurate)

Bking:
Like the “smart bombs” the filth used in Iraq which were “GPS” guided?

Shame less than 2% came within 500 meters of their target and blew a kid and his mother to bits instead.A bargain at 500,000 dollars a “pop”.

Yes you’re right.
They should have just used the same ones the ISIS suicide bombers use instead.
They can kill hundreds of innocent people and they only cost a couple of hundred dollars.
Not that you ever seem too concerned with those innocent deaths of course. Muppet

el_presidente:
Who is ‘the filth’, and can you please link us to the information you base your 2% comment on…? :unamused:

BKing never lets silly things like facts get in the way of a good dig at the very people who afford him the freedom to spout his twaddle.
You need to remember, this is a guy who quite openly claimed last year, on this very forum, that the holocaust was made up

IndigoJo:
To come back to the original point, I find that some trucks consistently give a higher speed reading on the speedo and the tacho than my sat-nav does, whatever the gradient. It’s typically 3mph out at top speed, so it’ll think it’s doing 56mph when it’s really doing 53. Scanias are the worst offenders, and when I mentioned this to a Scania repair man he said my sat-nav was wrong. Are they deliberately calibrating them 3mph out so that they get more accurate as the tyres wear? The problem is absent or much less pronounced on other makes of truck (including MAN).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They do it to show improved fuel consumption. 3 mph out could see the truck doing a hundred miles or more a week without using any fuel :wink:

The-Snowman:

Bking:
Like the “smart bombs” the filth used in Iraq which were “GPS” guided?

Shame less than 2% came within 500 meters of their target and blew a kid and his mother to bits instead.A bargain at 500,000 dollars a “pop”.

Yes you’re right.
They should have just used the same ones the ISIS suicide bombers use instead.
They can kill hundreds of innocent people and they only cost a couple of hundred dollars.
Not that you ever seem too concerned with those innocent deaths of course. Muppet

el_presidente:
Who is ‘the filth’, and can you please link us to the information you base your 2% comment on…? :unamused:

BKing never lets silly things like facts get in the way of a good dig at the very people who afford him the freedom to spout his twaddle.
You need to remember, this is a guy who quite openly claimed last year, on this very forum, that the holocaust was made up

Tw @t Nav then… :unamused:

the maoster:

the nodding donkey:
*pedant mode on *

Unless Raymundo is a Pilot, and guides a ship in or out of a harbour or across a dangerous transit, he is not really piloting the ship.

pedant mode off

Just for you Mr Donkey I’m making this image free to the world. You can even put this on T shirts. You’re welcome. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: (click on image)

:grimacing: :laughing:

(I’ll not mention the ommission of “have” between “I’d” and "expected "… :sunglasses:

the nodding donkey:

the maoster:

the nodding donkey:
*pedant mode on *

Unless Raymundo is a Pilot, and guides a ship in or out of a harbour or across a dangerous transit, he is not really piloting the ship.

pedant mode off

Just for you Mr Donkey I’m making this image free to the world. You can even put this on T shirts. You’re welcome. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: (click on image)

:grimacing: [emoji38]

(I’ll not mention the ommission of “have” between “I’d” and "expected "… :sunglasses:

More pedantic:

When Richard II rode out to meet the revolt, he would already have an idea in his mind as to the size of the rebellion, so to say ‘I’d expected…’ Would be correct, as in ‘I had expected…’. If he had chanced upon them by surprise, then ‘I would have expected…’ would be the correct grammatical choice.

Of course, if it had happened today, he would have said ‘I would OF expected…’

[emoji4]

scaniason:

the nodding donkey:

the maoster:

the nodding donkey:
*pedant mode on *

Unless Raymundo is a Pilot, and guides a ship in or out of a harbour or across a dangerous transit, he is not really piloting the ship.

pedant mode off

Just for you Mr Donkey I’m making this image free to the world. You can even put this on T shirts. You’re welcome. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: (click on image)

:grimacing: [emoji38]

(I’ll not mention the ommission of “have” between “I’d” and "expected "… :sunglasses:

More pedantic:

When Richard II rode out to meet the revolt, he would already have an idea in his mind as to the size of the rebellion, so to say ‘I’d expected…’ Would be correct, as in ‘I had expected…’. If he had chanced upon them by surprise, then ‘I would have expected…’ would be the correct grammatical choice.

Of course, if it had happened today, he would have said ‘I would OF expected…’

[emoji4]

:sunglasses:

Bluey Circles:

IndigoJo:
To come back to the original point, I find that some trucks consistently give a higher speed reading on the speedo and the tacho than my sat-nav does, whatever the gradient. It’s typically 3mph out at top speed, so it’ll think it’s doing 56mph when it’s really doing 53. Scanias are the worst offenders, and when I mentioned this to a Scania repair man he said my sat-nav was wrong. Are they deliberately calibrating them 3mph out so that they get more accurate as the tyres wear? The problem is absent or much less pronounced on other makes of truck (including MAN).

i doubt it, tyre wear on a truck does not make that much of a difference. on a typical truck tyre you would need 10mm of wear to make 1mph difference to the speedometer…

Calibrating your own trucks speedometer for accuracy is very easy. Set your onboard computer to calculate your average speed between a couple of motorway bridges. (try to use two that are about 10km apart where your speed will not vary too much). note down from the on board computer your average speed, distance and time. Then use an online mapping program to calculate the true distance, you can then compare the figures. (the distance calculated from the map and the time on the trucks computer are the only two figures that will be accurate)

Tyre wear makes enough difference that a truck calibrated on tyres just above the legal limit will fly past everything with new tyres on though.

The-Snowman:

Bking:
Like the “smart bombs” the filth used in Iraq which were “GPS” guided?

Shame less than 2% came within 500 meters of their target and blew a kid and his mother to bits instead.A bargain at 500,000 dollars a “pop”.

Yes you’re right.
They should have just used the same ones the ISIS suicide bombers use instead.
They can kill hundreds of innocent people and they only cost a couple of hundred dollars.
Not that you ever seem too concerned with those innocent deaths of course. Muppet

el_presidente:
Who is ‘the filth’, and can you please link us to the information you base your 2% comment on…? :unamused:

BKing never lets silly things like facts get in the way of a good dig at the very people who afford him the freedom to spout his twaddle.
You need to remember, this is a guy who quite openly claimed last year, on this very forum, that the holocaust was made up

At least I paid the holohoax the decency of going to the “sites” where these “mass murders” were supposed to have happened( Auschwitz,Chelmno,Dachau,Birkenau)and see for myself.
But when I see chimneys for crematoria that according to “eye witnesses” were used to burn"gassed victims" then see it is not connected to said “crematoria” and informed by “museum” staff that the “chimney” was built by the soviets in 1947 you start to wonder.
Or see an “execution wall” were 20,000 "victims"were shot yet not one bullet hole.Propaganda is a wonderful thing and even better if you can make it into a “criminal” offence if you dare to disagree or even Question the “official” version of events.Many people have been imprisoned for pointing out “anomalies” in the story.If all these “facts” are true then would not a true investigation strengthen the “evidence”?
Suggest you do a little research for your self,thats if you can be botherd,instead of just swallowing the crap that those with vested interests pour out through the “media”.
If something is above being investigated or questioned then its got something to hide.

Bking:

The-Snowman:

Bking:
Like the “smart bombs” the filth used in Iraq which were “GPS” guided?

Shame less than 2% came within 500 meters of their target and blew a kid and his mother to bits instead.A bargain at 500,000 dollars a “pop”.

Yes you’re right.
They should have just used the same ones the ISIS suicide bombers use instead.
They can kill hundreds of innocent people and they only cost a couple of hundred dollars.
Not that you ever seem too concerned with those innocent deaths of course. Muppet

el_presidente:
Who is ‘the filth’, and can you please link us to the information you base your 2% comment on…? :unamused:

BKing never lets silly things like facts get in the way of a good dig at the very people who afford him the freedom to spout his twaddle.
You need to remember, this is a guy who quite openly claimed last year, on this very forum, that the holocaust was made up

At least I paid the holohoax the decency of going to the “sites” where these “mass murders” were supposed to have happened( Auschwitz,Chelmno,Dachau,Birkenau)and see for myself.
But when I see chimneys for crematoria that according to “eye witnesses” were used to burn"gassed victims" then see it is not connected to said “crematoria” and informed by “museum” staff that the “chimney” was built by the soviets in 1947 you start to wonder.
Or see an “execution wall” were 20,000 "victims"were shot yet not one bullet hole.Propaganda is a wonderful thing and even better if you can make it into a “criminal” offence if you dare to disagree or even Question the “official” version of events.Many people have been imprisoned for pointing out “anomalies” in the story.If all these “facts” are true then would not a true investigation strengthen the “evidence”?
Suggest you do a little research for your self,thats if you can be botherd,instead of just swallowing the crap that those with vested interests pour out through the “media”.
If something is above being investigated or questioned then its got something to hide.

The entire German nation accept it happened. If any nation has a reason to spout “it didnt really happen” it would be Germany.
So I think ill take their word for it rather than the drivel you’re spouting thanks. Your problem is you find a bunch of like minded conspiracy nuts and all of a sudden you think you all have a point.
Why dont you just keep looking for the second gunman or what happened to the “real” Titanic.

Alright who had page 4 in the Bking true agenda sweepstake.

Even im struggling to find a correlation between GPS and Holocaust conspiracy theories and im an honourary Jew (accidental circumcision, long story, dodgy zipper).