Just got a letter off work telling us of an opportunity to opt in to the above scheme,
Basically the give us £8. Extra on our night out money and £10 per day meal alowence which is all none taxable, in return we get an equivilant amount taken out of our taxable earnings, they recon our take home should be up2-4%.
Any one else in a similar scheme?
Just wonder how they are going to take an “equivalent” amount from your pre tax earnings.
If they do it by simply removing “x” pounds without showing why, I imagine they or you would be liable for tax avoided.
If they do show why, then it has obviously got to be some kind of false claim.
If they do it by reducing your actual wage (i.e. by reducing your hourly rate etc) then there may be implications to think about in relation to redundancy etc later on.
Sound good initially, but the tax man will surely be prepared for this kind of scheme.
work it out, then do it again. now factor in your new holiday pay. then look at the possibility of future redundances, and pensions.
you will probably find out you’re in line for a right shafting.
i’ve worked for many firms that paid a really crap basic, but we got a heck of a lot more in none taxable benefits each week. it was the way they’d always done it. however, if a firm decided to change the way i get paid part way through my employment, then i’d be very wary.
As said, work it out to see how it suits you, don’t rely on your workmate’s calculations, the new system might suit them but not you.
Check holiday pay etc too, sounds OK on the face of it, in theory you are taking a pay cut but getting it back in meal allowance and extra night out money…neither of which will be of any use as holiday pay, or average pay should redundancy be mooted, or the depot shift to day/night trunking with no nights out.
In our wage negotiations we always plumped for the most increase on the basic or other pay that contributed to our ‘average’ pay, which we got on holiday or training days etc.
In the letter it says ‘subject to HMRC approval’
Thereal-john:
Just got a letter off work telling us of an opportunity to opt in to the above scheme,
Basically the give us £8. Extra on our night out money and £10 per day meal alowence which is all none taxable, in return we get an equivilant amount taken out of our taxable earnings, they recon our take home should be up2-4%.
Any one else in a similar scheme?
It’s a salary sacrifice scheme, and it’s a fiddle IMO, although the lawmakers of this country often allow bent practice providing it fiddles the man on the street, and makes profit for the “captains of industry” which they’re always bleating about.
You are effectively paying a commission to receiving some of your fully-entitled tax rebate early (ie on a week to week basis) instead of building it up over the year, and getting a tax rebate cheque at the end of it.
Trouble is, HMRC are already taking a dim view to such practices, meaning that at the end of the year you get a BILL from HMRC instead, because they don’t recognise the reasons that some of your pay has been put out of the tax net! I believe Self-EMployed people have the greatest problems with this, along with anyone on an “Umbrella Scheme” which all involve paying a commission to have your pay “processed”.
If you are a higher rate taxpayer, AND earning over £330pw driving, then it is actually true that you are better off.
Thing is, if you are NOT a higher rate tax payer (Who is among us?) then you are just paying them a commission to get your tax rebate early - and then challenged & charged back by HMRC at the end of the year for not providing receipts among other things. 
Example:
Fred earns £200 per week gross for driving an average 2 days per week. Being an idiot, Fred pays into one of these bent schemes, which looks something like this on his pay slip:
Gross for Tax: £200 Tax & NI deducted @ (about 33% aggregate) leaves takehome pay of £134.00 (for those outside the scheme they’ll say!)
IN the scheme it’s £200 gft, deduct £100 for expenses, pay deductions of 33% on ZERO because the taxable pay has fallen below the £160pw threshold.
They’ll charge you around £27 commission for increasing your takehome pay from £134 to £200 less the £27, thus they can say you are £39pw BETTER OFF in the scheme. They don’t even make their own commission “tax deductable” which of course also suggests that it’s already a fiddle that they’d rather the taxman doesn’t know about! 
At the end of the year, you get a tax bill from HMRC if you have not accounted for every penny of tax-waived pay with full receipts for everything they list as a deduction (eg. new clothing, fuel, meals at work)
Alternatively, you can get an honest firm to just deduct the correct amount of PAYE in the first place, which would be the 33% aggregate on £40 in this example, as the first £160pw is non-taxable ANYWAY for the vast majority of base rate tax payers.
The correct deductions on £200pw is around £13 therefore. The firm charges you zero to process this PAYE because they are honest johns.
That’s all there is to it!
On PAYE, even without any expense offset (honest or not) you are looking at taking home £187pw on a £200pw pay packet.
Why pay a commission out of ignorance of tax laws coupled with bentness of firm? 
An Example how other country pay
Copy
Crane driver / crane operator We focus on dynamic and enthusiastic people with C + E license and crane license, which ideally bring relevant experience already. A forklift license would be an advantage. For the position as a crane driver with a minimum of EUR KV is 8.21 gross per hour. For the position as a crane driver with a minimum of EUR KV is 11.67 gross per hour. If interested
You get paid Monthly 14 Times a Year with 4 to six Week Holiday
Well,not exactly,as the 12th Month,and 13th + 14th Month on a other Way calculated,but you know what you earn when you start your Work.
What i will say is,that i like a Simple Calculation as im not an Accountand,and i will not seat exh start of Shift calculating how to manage my Work to get the highest Pay.
I like to start my Shift and finish on time with overtime possible and the Accountand generates my pay.
Im doing now a lot for an Agency who doesnt do Maddison and Pay is lower,but im happy as i have no Work with Expenses ect,ect.
but thats just me.Maybe some may like it.
This scheme has been used by Stobart for years! £7 an hour £13 meal allowance £22.50 nightout money operation/fuel bonus per shift £5!
dessy:
This scheme has been used by Stobart for years! £7 an hour £13 meal allowance £22.50 nightout money operation/fuel bonus per shift £5!
and flat holiday pay of £400 ish a week! 
the chocolate fireguards who masquerade as DRIVERS " reps " pretend to ask for a rise on the basic! £7.75 now it was a 50 pence jump last time but YOU are supposed to get an average of YOUR previous 12 weeks pay when you go on HOLIDAY 
as they are finding out to THIER cost! Come august at the SUPREME court we shall have a backdated claim for five years 
and they are still TRYING to wiggle out of it! 
although they’ve paid five off I know about! wake up MR STOBARTS!
Fatboy slimslow:
dessy:
This scheme has been used by Stobart for years! £7 an hour £13 meal allowance £22.50 nightout money operation/fuel bonus per shift £5!and flat holiday pay of £400 ish a week!
I shall submit my claim then! Cheers mate! That will teach them to max out drivers hours and not pay the proper holiday pay!
Cheeky ■■■■■ stopped me £90 for holiday when I left!
Is there someone I can call regarding this? PM will be sound mate!
dessy:
Is there someone I can call regarding this?
there would be several government departments you could call.
but you’d have more luck hiring the A-team. or ghostbusters. in fact i’d put my money on the anthill mob.
limeyphil:
dessy:
Is there someone I can call regarding this?there would be several government departments you could call.
but you’d have more luck hiring the A-team. or ghostbusters. in fact i’d put my money on the anthill mob.
Can I have the Anthill Mobs number then Phil?
Sounds like a way of dodging giving you a pay rise.
kr79:
Sounds like a way of dodging giving you a pay rise.
Tax avoidance on every employees holiday pay!
We get that our basic is crap but with all the bits and peices it’s a good wage but holiday pay is crap.
dessy:
limeyphil:
dessy:
Is there someone I can call regarding this?there would be several government departments you could call.
but you’d have more luck hiring the A-team. or ghostbusters. in fact i’d put my money on the anthill mob.Can I have the Anthill Mobs number then Phil?
i hope this helps. 
I’m disappointed Phil! I thought you were helping me to screw the Green Peril for money owed to me!
Do your own taxes, or have it done for free by a straight firm. There is no other way to get paid without being wide open to a fiddle somewhere.
How does this thing work with night out money not being taxable for some reason? How come?
“Your pay gentlemen is £6.18 per shift, and we’ll also give you a generous night out allowance of £90 per night.”
So you end up with per-shift pay of £96.18 gross of which £6.18 is taxable it seems. God knows how THAT works, but I wouldn’t be surprised if its things like THAT causing HMRC to send you a bill for the tax on £96.18 x 52weeks x 5days at the end of the year!
Your pay gentlemen is £6.18 per shift, and we’ll also give you a generous night out allowance of £90 per night
not quite like that!
HMRC set an upper limit for overnight allowances without receipts, not sure at present but somewhere around £25.39 per night, the figures are on another thread but can’t be bothered looking it up.
tax free meal allowance is £2 day tax free and hasnt been upped by hmrc for years unless your employer has a personal agreement with local tax office
night out money has been moved but like someone said only around £25 mark and few pennies max that can be paid tax free again unless an agreement in place
Then there is the pie mainly euro drivers but this has to be agreed with tax office first
anything over the amounts not agreed should be taxed on and could come back to haunt you and employer years later
I know of companies payed x amounts of nights out a week regardless if had them or not
and years later tax inspection got caught as evidence showed no nights out taken and got hit with £28k tax bill
not sure on the drivers tho