Have we not talked this round in a circle now?
not going over everything but some say you have to stay or return to the point where you finished so ‘’’
your taking a truck to spain for the F1 race it could be any truck food shop etc its there a week before the event so some are saying you have to have your rest and log all travel but your booking off and jumping on a plane to go back home. next week your on holiday and someone else picks up the truck so where do you stand with starting where ypu left off. 
nick2008:
not going over everything but some say you have to stay or return to the point where you finished so ‘’’your taking a truck to spain for the F1 race it could be any truck food shop etc its there a week before the event so some are saying you have to have your rest and log all travel but your booking off and jumping on a plane to go back home. next week your on holiday and someone else picks up the truck so where do you stand with starting where ypu left off.
The journey from spain to home must be recorded at some point before the next shift starts
ROG:
LIBERTY_GUY:
… but we don’t all have sleeping bags and night out gear, neither do we have any desire to act as unpaid security guards all night long.You are assuming that all sleep in cabs - what about using a B&B etc ?
Seeing as how typical night out money is around the 20 to 25 quid mark, I would suggest you would have to do some real shopping around to get B&B at that money. Then you have the question of where do you put the truck? It not the kind of thing most people want on their forecourt. Lowers the tone and all that… 
LIBERTY_GUY:
ROG:
LIBERTY_GUY:
… but we don’t all have sleeping bags and night out gear, neither do we have any desire to act as unpaid security guards all night long.You are assuming that all sleep in cabs - what about using a B&B etc ?
Seeing as how typical night out money is around the 20 to 25 quid mark, I would suggest you would have to do some real shopping around to get B&B at that money. Then you have the question of where do you put the truck? It not the kind of thing most people want on their forecourt. Lowers the tone and all that…
The company is responsible for all the expenses so if it costs more the company must pay all reasonable costs
As most drivers know within a hour of time running out then that gives plenty of time to find a location to stop overnight
ROG:
LIBERTY_GUY:
ROG:
LIBERTY_GUY:
… but we don’t all have sleeping bags and night out gear, neither do we have any desire to act as unpaid security guards all night long.You are assuming that all sleep in cabs - what about using a B&B etc ?
Seeing as how typical night out money is around the 20 to 25 quid mark, I would suggest you would have to do some real shopping around to get B&B at that money. Then you have the question of where do you put the truck? It not the kind of thing most people want on their forecourt. Lowers the tone and all that…
The company is responsible for all the expenses so if it costs more the company must pay all reasonable costs
As most drivers know within a hour of time running out then that gives plenty of time to find a location to stop overnight
If drivers were able to claim for ‘proper’ overnight accommodation, then it would ask the question as to why tens of thousands will be sleeping in filthy, rubbish strewn laybys every week? That is assuming they can find an empty one in some parts of the country now of course. 
ROG:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Seeing as how typical night out money is around the 20 to 25 quid mark, I would suggest you would have to do some real shopping around to get B&B at that money. Then you have the question of where do you put the truck? It not the kind of thing most people want on their forecourt. Lowers the tone and all that…The company is responsible for all the expenses so if it costs more the company must pay all reasonable costs
Under what law is a transport company legally obliged to pay the difference between the cost of B&B and the night out money ?
I’m going to get shot down here by all the tacho rules nazis, but ffs .
I know it’s ‘‘The Law’’ I know we can all get disproportinately punished for breaking these regs and all the rest of it…and I accept that, albeit grudgingly.
Guys are coming on here from time to time, new and old, absolutely ■■■■ ting themselves because they have committed what turns out to be a minor infringement,…all because they have heard, and fear the hype.
They are discussing whether it is legal to get a lift home in a van ( forgive me if I have got that wrong, it’s just that I felt an urge to slit my wrists after page1 so stopped)
Drivers are coming on regurgirltating rules (and rule and subsection nos ) with no air of irony.
Now before anybody says it, I know I don’t HAVE to read it. ok.
If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of ■■■■ ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.
I hope for the future of the job that I aint.
I drive to the law as best I can, but if I do happen to go over for 5 mins or something equally as ■■■■■■ trivial, I just think ■■■■ it, 
… safe in the knowledge that they can not hang me by the neck until dead.
robroy:
If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of [zb] ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.
I hope for the future of the job that I aint.I drive to the law as best I can, but if I do happen to go over for 5 mins or something equally as [zb] trivial, I just think [zb] it,
I am sure there are drivers on here, that would regard ‘playing with themselves’ in the cab as ‘other work’ and would feel obligated to officially record it as an activity… 
LIBERTY_GUY:
robroy:
If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of [zb] ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.
I hope for the future of the job that I aint.I drive to the law as best I can, but if I do happen to go over for 5 mins or something equally as [zb] trivial, I just think [zb] it,
I am sure there are drivers on here, that would regard ‘playing with themselves’ in the cab as ‘other work’ and would feel obligated to officially record it as an activity…
If you listen to some of the posts on this forum, if their bosses told them this was genuine, with a straight face, they would do just that.
robroy:
I’m going to get shot down here by all the tacho rules nazis, but ffs
I know it’s ‘‘The Law’’ I know we can all get disproportinately punished for breaking these regs and all the rest of it…and I accept that, albeit grudgingly.
Guys are coming on here from time to time, new and old, absolutely [zb] ting themselves because they have committed what turns out to be a minor infringement,…all because they have heard, and fear the hype.
They are discussing whether it is legal to get a lift home in a van ( forgive me if I have got that wrong, it’s just that I felt an urge to slit my wrists after page1 so stopped)
Drivers are coming on regurgirltating rules (and rule and subsection nos
Now before anybody says it, I know I don’t HAVE to read it. ok.If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of [zb] ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.
I hope for the future of the job that I aint.I drive to the law as best I can, but if I do happen to go over for 5 mins or something equally as [zb] trivial, I just think [zb] it,
at last, someone with a touch of common sense who hasn’t quoted chapter and verse saying that this is what you must do or not do, or you will be dammed for all eternity because you may get an infringement… shock horror, well tough ■■■■■■■…
ANY driver with the right motivation, WILL break the rules if he has to get home, last time i checked capital punishment is still not in force,
IF you did get stopped on the way home whilst fiddling the card, so what, there is a driver shortage… apparently 
robroy:
LIBERTY_GUY:
robroy:
If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of [zb] ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.
I hope for the future of the job that I aint.I drive to the law as best I can, but if I do happen to go over for 5 mins or something equally as [zb] trivial, I just think [zb] it,
I am sure there are drivers on here, that would regard ‘playing with themselves’ in the cab as ‘other work’ and would feel obligated to officially record it as an activity…
“Boss I can’t find the tacho symbol that looks like a strangled chicken…” 
robroy:
If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of [zb] ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.
No you’re not, but you are one of the few who feels the need to constantly ■■■■■ about it
It’s called a discussion forum for a reason
tachograph:
Under what law is a transport company legally obliged to pay the difference between the cost of B&B and the night out money ?
Employment law- an employee cannot be made to pay for something which has occurred during the course of their employment at the behest of the employer - those words if I remember them correctly
That was clearly explained and shown to me many years ago by my union rep who went to courts to deal with such matters
CAVEAT - unless the law has changed …
This is a real situation which crops up. A company has more than one daily run which each involve delivering to an RDC about 150 miles from base, collecting another load on the way home from a pick up point which may be 60 to 100 miles from base. This load is booked in to another RDC for delivery which is say in the region of 20 miles from the operating base on the way back. This delivery is one of maybe 20 the company makes to that particular RDC each day. Because of this it is possible to substitute one booking time for another.
Occasionally - maybe once every three weeks maybe less frequently, things go wrong and for some reason the returning driver can get no nearer than: the RDC, a suitable Layby or the nearest services because his working time has run out, or will run out in the RDC. There is obviously no question of the vehicle being night-outed, the delivery is going to be made, however you cannot simply abandon the driver in a layby, nor can the company be expected to permanently double-man the job on a 4 or 5% possibility of the second man being required, when on the remaining days the job is completed well within limits.
The court case from which the interpretation is made relates to a coach company. Within the PSV industry ferrying drivers to and from vehicles is a scheduled event, either under domestic rules so that the bus does not have to return to base mid diagram, or under EC rules so that coach passengers can reach their destination on the same day. Quite rightly this type of operation needs to be accomplished so that the relieved and relieving drivers’ duties do not exceed prescribed hours from base to base.
This PSV type of operation is not a normal activity in the haulage world. The issue that the regulation set out to prevent was related to the relieving driver not the one who needed to get home. The aim being to prevent over-tired driving not to prevent workers getting home.
Mandatory extension of the immediately following (non reducing) rest period for a chauffeured back driver by the over-run plus one hour, or even two hours, would seem a sensible alternative, ie minimum 12 hrs plus over-run.
tachograph:
robroy:
If I am, I am sorry, …but am I the ONLY driver on here, who reacts to reading threads such as all this cack with the thoughts of " What a pile of [zb] ■■■■■■■■’’ shaking my head.No you’re not, but you are one of the few who feels the need to constantly ■■■■■ about it
It’s called a discussion forum for a reason
Wow! Well it’s certainly upset you mate 
It’s just that some of us feel the need to keep our feet on the ground, not get all ‘time of the month’ over trivial bullcrap, and generally try to keep things real. 
By the way, yeh it’s called a DISCUSSION forum you are right, clue being in the title why I give MY opinion
Also maybe if a few more drivers like me ‘bitched’ as you say, about us having to jump through bloody ridiculous hoops only to do our job, and fewer drivers like you stuck up for, and subscribed to all this type of crap, things would maybe be better for us all.
robroy:
Wow!
No it never upset me at-all, it takes a lot to do that
I just don’t understand why someone like yourself feels the need to constantly ■■■■■ about what people are discussing.
As far as keeping it real is concerned, if you take the trouble to read the thread Rob I think you’ll see that while discussing the rules most people have in fact distinguished between what the rules say and what most drivers would actually do.
robroy:
Also maybe if a few more drivers like me ‘bitched’ as you say, about us having to jump through bloody ridiculous hoops only to do our job, and fewer drivers like you stuck up for, and subscribed to all this type of crap, things would maybe be better for us all.
But you don’t ■■■■■ about the rules you ■■■■■ about people discussing the rules, there’s a big difference, and do you really think that moaning about what people discuss on this board is going to change anything for drivers, come off it you can’t really believe that
tachograph:
robroy:
Wow!No it never upset me at-all, it takes a lot to do that
I just don’t understand why someone like yourself feels the need to constantly ■■■■■ about what people are discussing.As far as keeping it real is concerned, if you take the trouble to read the thread Rob I think you’ll see that while discussing the rules most people have in fact distinguished between what the rules say and what most drivers would actually do.
robroy:
Also maybe if a few more drivers like me ‘bitched’ as you say, about us having to jump through bloody ridiculous hoops only to do our job, and fewer drivers like you stuck up for, and subscribed to all this type of crap, things would maybe be better for us all.But you don’t ■■■■■ about the rules you ■■■■■ about people discussing the rules, there’s a big difference, and do you really think that moaning about what people discuss on this board is going to change anything for drivers, come off it you can’t really believe that
Where exactly are we going with this , are you wanting to argue about what we are arguing about. 
If I want to come on here and try and get the subject back down to real life stuff, and away from the world of pedantic rules, and comment on how drivers are perceiving these rules, and try and point out how ridiculous they sound, in an effort to make them realise that…I will.
(Obviously, but evidently not to you, it was aimed at the ones who did not make the point that you highlighted)
Now if you take offence at that, and despite what you say, display the fact it ■■■■■■ you, that is up to you, I can’t help that, but it will not stop me putting forward my opinion on it.
Or in fact my opinion on your views.
As you reminded me, it’s what a discussion forum is for.
mercury:
It’s no good asking here about legalities the plan is get advertising and tell drivers to run bent. At least this is the method of admin.these spookiest haven’t heard of traffic eh.on the positicve side in spite of vociferous insults from these stooges. Alot. Of agencies have introduced the wtd. Law qbs law and mobile workers rule thanks to media interest in these arguments to the drivers keep on trucking. To the admin work on your manners and brush up on your theory. When I were a lad e well ooar
Wibble !!!
LIBERTY_GUY:
I am sure there are drivers on here, that would regard ‘playing with themselves’ in the cab as ‘other work’ and would feel obligated to officially record it as an activity…
There are probably some on here who think stealing a lorry in grand theft auto 5 should be declared as “driving time”!