Life long… and you need to ask a question like that,for an answer that should be basic knowledge of Law for any Driver
LIBERTY_GUY:
… but we don’t all have sleeping bags and night out gear, neither do we have any desire to act as unpaid security guards all night long.
You are assuming that all sleep in cabs - what about using a B&B etc ?
I think this is one of the areas that causes the most confusion. All this talk of the fitter coming out to fetch you in a van and swap, or must be two drivers as you can’t sit behind the wheel, the vehicle must not be leased to the company was the one that made me chuckle today 
In the real world most of you, would deliberately break the law, as most would choose to fetch their car from work, or not mind that they are under instruction to return the breakdown van.
Why don’t , say rog or tachograph, name a few scenarios, giving duty time, driving time, what vehicle fetches them etc, we all stick our answers down and why we think we’ve got it correct, no one redicules each other’s answer or question if they were dropped on there heads or acuse them of being agency :
And someone, or three, might learn something from it?
Scenario 1
start 6am with a reduced daily rest and 10 hours driving time available for this shift
time now 7pm with 9 hours driving time done but 2 hours from base
driver calls base and another driver in a company vehicle under 3.5 tonnes GVW is sent out
both drivers meet 1 hours away from base and swap vehicles
they both return to base
that is legal because the original driver is on other work driving the little vehicle for the 1 hour back to base and a manual entry is recorded for that
Scenario 2
start 6am with no reduced daily rest or 9+ driving time available
time now 6pm with 8 driving done but 2 hours from base
driver calls base and another driver in a company vehicle under 3.5 tonnes GVW is sent out
both drivers meet 1 hours away from base and swap vehicles
now the original driver cannot officially complete the journey because it is now 7pm and must go on rest
The 1 hour back to base from where the rest began must be started no earlier than 6am
what the driver does between 7pm and 6am is up to them
I meant to give them a scenario and let us guess the answer
But cheers anyway, just think it helps that drivers know the difference of running out of eu hours but being able to continue in uk hours given the right circs, and that myths whether the vehicle is hired to the company in question etc whether it’s two people or one that fetches you, what u need to record and when u don’t need to record anything etc, cheers tho rog
ROG:
Scenario 2
start 6am with no reduced daily rest or 9+ driving time available
time now 6pm with 8 driving done but 2 hours from base
driver calls base and another driver in a company vehicle under 3.5 tonnes GVW is sent out
both drivers meet 1 hours away from base and swap vehicles
now the original driver cannot officially complete the journey because it is now 7pm and must go on rest
The 1 hour back to base from where the rest began must be started no earlier than 6am
what the driver does between 7pm and 6am is up to them
ROG, at the point in which you are stranded having run out of time, a driver wanting to get home doesn’t give a monkeys about all this stuff. All they want to know is what they can do it get home without an infringement, so in scenario 2 you would still drive the 3.5t back anyway because your driving isn’t recorded and no one will know. You get home, firm get their truck back, DVSA aren’t the wiser, everyone’s happy.
Ah, but there is. Article 9 of EU Regulation 561/06:
“2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.”
This regulation was quoted to me by a drivers cpc trainer ( yes I know !! )
I told him of a situation at our firm and he said our driver was doing it wrong. All our lorries were based at Bradford and we had a driver who lived in Doncaster, 45 miles away. He would drive to work with his wife Monday morning to pick up his lorry and she would take the car home so she could use it as he was away all week. She would then pick bring the car to the depot on Friday afternoon and they would go home to Doncaster. All perfectly within the regulations so far. Every 6 weeks he would drop his lorry off for inspection at the main dealers in Brighouse and as it was nearer to his home in Doncaster, his wife would bring the car to Brighouse and they would go home from there. I was told he could not " book off " and start his weekly rest at Brighouse, and he was still on duty till he reached home i.e. Doncaster. He should record the time from Brighouse to his home as work and only then did his weekly rest begin. Similarly, on Monday he and his wife would take the car to Brighouse for him to collect his lorry and she would take the car home. Again I was told his duty started when he left home as his vehicle was not at the depot in Bradford.
I somewhat reluctantly accepted what he said was correct. I then asked him what if the driver and his wife did not go directly back to his home in Doncaster but instead went to Blackpool to see the lights and got home at 1am the next morning, should he still record it as work, and did his weekly rest start at 1am ?
He said yes, it seems stupid but those are the regulations !!
So what do you lads with " in depth knowledge of the regulations" think ? because on the face of it, it looks like he was right ? 
Regards John.
rob22888:
ROG:
Scenario 2
start 6am with no reduced daily rest or 9+ driving time available
time now 6pm with 8 driving done but 2 hours from base
driver calls base and another driver in a company vehicle under 3.5 tonnes GVW is sent out
both drivers meet 1 hours away from base and swap vehicles
now the original driver cannot officially complete the journey because it is now 7pm and must go on rest
The 1 hour back to base from where the rest began must be started no earlier than 6am
what the driver does between 7pm and 6am is up to themROG, at the point in which you are stranded having run out of time, a driver wanting to get home doesn’t give a monkeys about all this stuff. All they want to know is what they can do it get home without an infringement, so in scenario 2 you would still drive the 3.5t back anyway because your driving isn’t recorded and no one will know. You get home, firm get their truck back, DVSA aren’t the wiser, everyone’s happy.
The point being that if you are going to break the rules you really need to know what the rules are in the first place and how they apply to your particular situation. Then you can weigh up the probability of getting caught and the likely consequences if you are caught.
Article 9 - Regulation (EC) No 561/2006
- Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.
If you run out of driving time but have enough working time left to get back to base or home -
- You can legally travel back to base by any means available to you as long as you get back and book off before running out of working time.
- You can travel back to base by bus/train or be picked up by your company.
- You can drive a vehicle that does not come in-scope of EU regulations back to base,ie a company van/car.
[/*:m][/list:u]
If you run out of working time, ie have done a 13/15 hour shift -
- You cannot legally travel back to base regardless of who’s driving or who the vehicle in which you travel belongs.
- You cannot legally travel home then start the next shift from your usual base.
However you are free to do as you wish in your rest period, so if you want to travel home and back to the vehicle in your rest period you’re free to do so as long as travelling home and back is your choice and you’re not being instructed to do so by your employer.
If you travel home in your rest period then legally you should start the next shift from the same location that you finished the previous shift, otherwise the travelling time will be seen as a continuation of the journey rather than you freely disposing of your rest time.
- Whether or not the vehicle is still at the same location is irrelevant, there’s no regulation that says you have to finish a journey in the same vehicle that you start the journey in.
The answer to the OPs question is: if you run out of driving time you cannot legally bobtail back to base and do a printout ■■■■■■■■ about how much work you was given 
I can remember working for a company some years ago, the boss wanted all hgv’s parking at the company depot down sarf, if back in the uk at weekends ,unless you gave a delivery /collection up north, they would either get a lift in a sprinter which was going back up north, or a minbus, repeated in reverse, many times home on Saturday afternoon, back driving a truck Sunday night , this was to save on diesel costs,and wages Some would stay in their trucks, vans at or near that depot
Someone started telling the boss man that this was illegal blah ,blah, his answer was , stay in your truck then, also i don’t have to provide transport so you can get home at weekends
no one is forcing you to leave your truck,
I also had a go about this , he said after some arguing , ok use your own car, take it down their and come back in it, I’ll pay for the fuel
I have driven hours to and from places of work, after doing a full shift or then starting one, depending on time of the day , i have even rode shotgun in another hgv to were my car was parked , Once you pull that card end of shift, no one is legally required to record anything and it’s unlikely that it would ever come to light,
Exactly raymundo, and know one wants to get themselves into a situation when a slight play on words is all it would take to not get you a fine.
Rob, of course we’d all do what we want to do, that wasn’t rog’s point.
I love rdc bull shine spewing out a fat man as much as the next guy, whether it be headroom in the cab stopping it being classed as rest, or a bus load of fitters having to pick u up when out of time and dropping u at the airport with an all expenses paid holiday just to prove it was not needed to be recorded.
An example in my head, is what happens when it’s the norm that tachos are gps enabled? If beaky knows that your card was ejected on Friday night an hour away from base,wouldn’t you rather be safe in the knowledge saying that the boss’s Porsche was sent for you and you were able to do what you want with no need to record it instead of doubting what you could say?
And if terry in the workshop had actually came to pick you in the transit and you didn’t have any more eu or uk driving time, when plod leads you down the path of , how you got home, and you say in a vehicle that should have been recorded, but now you face questions of falsifying tachos, insuffient rest, exceeding daily duty and driving time, wouldn’t you have wished you’d said you’d gone down the red light district in the boss’s Porsche after all?
And regards your cpc old67, I think he’s wrong.
Under instruction to the servicing, then record, as soon as in the wife’s car whether you go Blackpool or dogging or dogging at Blackpool, is he under instruction from the boss? Then no, he’s off duty, however, what if his boss has asked him to go dogging at Blackpool…■■? Not sure on that.
And if he traveled to pick truck up under instruction, then record it.
The literature your quoting is when bus drivers were travelling to meet the bus in its journey, that obviously has to be recorded, it most probably came to fruition as company didn’t wanna pay travelling time, as “you don’t get paid to travel to the depot, so why would we pay you to got to the MSA to swap with Harry?”
Another scenario for you. Started 4am, it’s now 7pm and you are still an hour from base. The gaffer says I need the truck back, we are coming to get it. Now from what’s been said it is perfectly ok for the company to collect the truck but you, the driver can’t go anywhere until 4am tomorrow. Is that correct?
Ok wouldn’t happen in the real world but this is what has been implied isn’t it?
Perhaps the gaffer supplied a tent!
colinr:
Another scenario for you. Started 4am, it’s now 7pm and you are still an hour from base. The gaffer says I need the truck back, we are coming to get it. Now from what’s been said it is perfectly ok for the company to collect the truck but you, the driver can’t go anywhere until 4am tomorrow. Is that correct?
Ok wouldn’t happen in the real world but this is what has been implied isn’t it?Perhaps the gaffer supplied a tent!
Correct - what can be done is for the driver to keep the car etc sent for them - book into a B&B - then use car to drive from 4am to 5am and record that as other work
They could use the car from 7pm to 4am as they wished - perhaps to go home for 7+ hours then return to the point where they ‘lost’ the lorry to do the 1 hour journey back to base BUT … being realistic who would go back to that point - would they simply go home at 7pm and from home to yard at 5am but manually book the 4am to 5am journey = illegal but more realistically likely to happen - how would anyone know 
It’s no good asking here about legalities the plan is get advertising and tell drivers to run bent. At least this is the method of admin.these spookiest haven’t heard of traffic eh.on the positicve side in spite of vociferous insults from these stooges. Alot. Of agencies have introduced the wtd. Law qbs law and mobile workers rule thanks to media interest in these arguments to the drivers keep on trucking. To the admin work on your manners and brush up on your theory. When I were a lad e well ooar
And regards your cpc old67, I think he’s wrong.
Under instruction to the servicing, then record, as soon as in the wife’s car whether you go Blackpool or dogging or dogging at Blackpool, is he under instruction from the boss? Then no, he’s off duty, however, what if his boss has asked him to go dogging at Blackpool…■■? Not sure on that.
if anyone knows of a job on offer working for a boss that makes you go dogging in your off duty time whilst lending you his porshe to head to the nearest red light area,then could you please let me know,so long as the moneys no more than £200 per week.i couldnt pay anymore than that. 
ROG:
colinr:
Another scenario for you. Started 4am, it’s now 7pm and you are still an hour from base. The gaffer says I need the truck back, we are coming to get it. Now from what’s been said it is perfectly ok for the company to collect the truck but you, the driver can’t go anywhere until 4am tomorrow. Is that correct?
Ok wouldn’t happen in the real world but this is what has been implied isn’t it?Perhaps the gaffer supplied a tent!
Correct - what can be done is for the driver to keep the car etc sent for them - book into a B&B - then use car to drive from 4am to 5am and record that as other work
They could use the car from 7pm to 4am as they wished - perhaps to go home for 7+ hours then return to the point where they ‘lost’ the lorry to do the 1 hour journey back to base BUT … being realistic who would go back to that point - would they simply go home at 7pm and from home to yard at 5am but manually book the 4am to 5am journey = illegal but more realistically likely to happen - how would anyone know
.
Mattwoodtransport:
ROG:
colinr:
Another scenario for you. Started 4am, it’s now 7pm and you are still an hour from base. The gaffer says I need the truck back, we are coming to get it. Now from what’s been said it is perfectly ok for the company to collect the truck but you, the driver can’t go anywhere until 4am tomorrow. Is that correct?
Ok wouldn’t happen in the real world but this is what has been implied isn’t it?Perhaps the gaffer supplied a tent!
Correct - what can be done is for the driver to keep the car etc sent for them - book into a B&B - then use car to drive from 4am to 5am and record that as other work
They could use the car from 7pm to 4am as they wished - perhaps to go home for 7+ hours then return to the point where they ‘lost’ the lorry to do the 1 hour journey back to base BUT … being realistic who would go back to that point - would they simply go home at 7pm and from home to yard at 5am but manually book the 4am to 5am journey = illegal but more realistically likely to happen - how would anyone know
Are you suggesting rog to record an hour from 7pm as other work and that be legal?
No - be at home and record the bit from 4am to 5am = ILLEGAL but …
colinr:
Another scenario for you. Started 4am, it’s now 7pm and you are still an hour from base. The gaffer says I need the truck back, we are coming to get it. Now from what’s been said it is perfectly ok for the company to collect the truck but you, the driver can’t go anywhere until 4am tomorrow. Is that correct?
Ok wouldn’t happen in the real world but this is what has been implied isn’t it?Perhaps the gaffer supplied a tent!
Don’t think that’s being suggested unless iv missed a post, you can do what you want as long as it’s a car, your not under instruction. It is questionable obviously if the operator did this intentionally every shift, but I bet there’s a few on here that wud jump at the shift pattern
I misread your post rog, sorry, then went and edited mine, but u wer too quick with the response or I was too slow to edit
Sorry