Hi, it’s my first post but I have lurked for a while. Today’s experience has urged me to get involved!
I had my C+E test today and failed due to uncorrect signalling at a roundabout.
I shall explain the situation…
Approaching the roundabout I’m asked to take the 3rd exit. The roundabout’s first exit is a very sharp left, the second is at 10 o’clock, the 3rd is at 12 o’clock and the 4th is 3 o’clock.
The approach has two lanes and the left is marked with a left arrow and the 2 destinations of the first 2 exits. The right is signed with a double arrow with the straight on point for the 3rd exit and the right turn for the 4th.
In my C test I did the same route and approached it as a straight on - which it is!! and I passed.
Today I did the same - no signal on approach and signal left as I pass the 2nd exit - today I failed.
My instructor thinks I was right. The examiner thinks I was wrong - he says I should of signalled right until I passed the 2nd exit!
IMO you are right. I was told on all my lessons that if the junction is at 12 o’clock on the roundabout you don’t indicate right you just indicate to leave the roundabout, but if it is after 12 o’clock you do. I guess the way you have described the lanes you were right in your decision for that as well.
You can appeal but their decision will not be reversed.
Watch how a policeman drives, he wouldnt even signal there unless it helps someone else.
To me, using a right signal in an artic would be more confusing although I would have probably used a signal as I moved across into the 2nd lane, and then indicate a left turn as the unit is then at an angle to the trailer at the point where you are straightening up.
Mr Flibble:
You only signal right if the exit is past the 12-o’clock position.
Old hat. And years out of date of modern practice.
I’d agree with what has already been stated. The Highway code now talks about turning left, turning right (and coming back upon oneself), and intermediate exits. It has taken a long time but it has eventually caught up with the concept that roundabouts are other than something simply ‘plonked’ in the middle of what used to be a cross-roads.
The DSA video on LGV driving states that exits between 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock should be treated as intermediate exits. Hence, appropriate lane and, no signal on the approach. Signal for break-away.
The examiner is wrong,put in an appeal against the test result.
No he isnt wrong.
First exit is always left
Second exit is straight ahead
Third exit is right. (Or first right if there is a fourth (second right) exit.
You should have approached with a right signal and signalled left to leave the roundabout when passing exit two.
There are sometimes ‘Local’ exeptions to the rule and also exeptions where road markings indicate different routes, but this is the rule in general regardless of whether the exits are offset or not.
interesting, from what you’ve said it sounds like the examiner was wrong but without seeing the roundabout its hard to say for sure. Was the examiner experienced? Did your instructor know of this examiner for some time? Its not often they make such basic mistakes.
Did the examiner want you to stay in the left lane with a right signal applied until you passed the 2nd exit at which point to signal left to leave? If so than this really doesn’t sound like he has read the highway code recently. Giving a right then left signal at a roundabout except for turning right is not accepted practice because it may confuse other road users.
If you know where the roundabout is let me know and i’ll look it up on google earth to give you a few pointers. If in doubt about the correct procedure buy a copy of the highway code and keep it handy on test next time!
From the road it’s always been known as a straight on…at least as long as I’ve know it and the same as many friends - some with 40+ years HGV experience.
What gets me is that I did the same for my Class 2 and have done the same all through my lessons…
In reply to mothertrucker, life isn’t always that simple, I wouldn’t say that the 3rd exit is always right on the sort of road where there is more than 4 exits including the one your approaching in.
Round our way there are plenty of roundabouts with up to 7 exits, you can’t just think of anything over 3 as a right turn. ‘Straight on’ should be any junction off the roundabout between 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock unless signed different.
Now all the highway code says when in this situation is keep to the appropriate lane on approach (which without seeing the roundabout is not easy to say for sure) and normally only signal to leave. It really depends on what the road markings say, the examiner might be right but it does sound a bit fishy!
I would never use the left lane with a right signal applied, this is wrong but I do come across roundabouts with a similar layout, if there is an arrow for straight on in the right lane then its possible that you should use the right lane for a turn going almost or jut past ‘straight on’ but only signal left to leave at the right time.
check out this link
This shows the sort of set up where its best to use the right lane for straight on if coming from the top of the screen, left lane is for 1st junction, middle lane for 2nd exit and right lane for 3rd exit and right, but as you can see its clearly marked on the road.
shame the car is over the road marking but looking at the roundabout it looks like the examiner was right, its more of a right turn than straight on, not the easiest of lane manoeuvres to exit tho.
I would use the right lane on approach with a right signal, signal left after the 2nd exit to leave and change to the left lane but don’t hang about because exit 2 and 3 are close together.
Might help to keep close to the centre line with the near side when passing the 2nd exit to make life easier when changing to the left lane to exit.
Better luck next time, who was your examiner because I know a few that work up at Darlington, also who did you train with?
Mr Flibble:
You only signal right if the exit is past the 12-o’clock position.
Old hat. And years out of date of modern practice.
I’d agree with what has already been stated. The Highway code now talks about turning left, turning right (and coming back upon oneself), and intermediate exits.
It actually says:
Signals and position.
When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want
So, you’ve got “first exit to the left”, “exit to the right”, and “intermediate exits”. It doesn’t define exits between 12 o’clock and 2 o’clock as “not to the right”. They’re past the 12 o’clock position, and therefore they’re “to the right”.
looking at the map now, it looks like I was wrong too and it probably does need a right signal, it is certainly a confusing lane marking as the roundabout is wide enough for 2 all the way round.
It would be probably better to have a left turn arrow and a straight on arrow on the inside lane too, although looking at the picture it seems like the right arrow next to the artic is only that.
Imho, that definitely needs a righthand signal. I certainly would if it was me driving and while you won’t want to hear it, the examiner was correct to fail you for not doing so.
This one is interesting
FIRSTLY, Welcome John_from_Yarm
Taking a straight line from the road on the left, the one you came from, and then following that line directly across the roundabout, I find it corresponds exactly with the exit you took - the one on the right as we look at the map.
The lane markings you have described wonderfully…
The right is signed with a double arrow with the straight on point for the 3rd exit and the right turn for the 4th.
If a right signal was used on the approach then it would have informed other road users that you were turning right 4th exit.
No signal on the approach would inform other road users that you intended to follow the road ahead marking 3rd exit.
If the instructor and the examiner are differing over this then they should meet to discuss it. Failing to agree at that meeting should result in a phone call to the head examiners office, with the instructor present, to get a defined decision on the matter.
