Instructor quals do not include a test on the ability to teach reversing but to be fair do look at general ability to instruct
The LGV instructor test part 3 is not the same as the car ADI one and there are no tests or check tests with a real pupil
Also training has changed over the years.It used to be that you trained someone to be a driver because there was far more time allocated but now it is just train them to pass their test.
It is fine if you have the time to show extra exercises but that is not always the case.
When I worked for the MOD we had 3 days for C+E or PCV and that was 2 students therefore one and a half days each so it was not always viable to teach extra especially if you had a slow student.
When it comes to a driver paying for the training himself it is up to him or her where they go and unfortunately finances might dictate that.
The objective of any training company is to get the candidate through their test.After they pass their test is when they really start to learn.If they find they are struggling with a particular aspect of driving they should gain practice or have further training.
ROG:
Instructor quals do not include a test on the ability to teach reversing but to be fair do look at general ability to instructThe LGV instructor test part 3 is not the same as the car ADI one and there are no tests or check tests with a real pupil
Yes they do.The 2 basic LGV instructors courses I have done both requires you to talk a student through the reverse.
It could be more involved but as usual it comes down to time and money.
albion1971:
ROG:
Instructor quals do not include a test on the ability to teach reversing but to be fair do look at general ability to instructThe LGV instructor test part 3 is not the same as the car ADI one and there are no tests or check tests with a real pupil
Yes they do.The 2 basic LGV instructors courses I have done both requires you to talk a student through the reverse.
It could be more involved but as usual it comes down to time and money.
Are you referring to the DSA qual ?
Many years ago there was a firm in Preston that did a 2 week intensive course.
It covered everything, From driving, reversing to roping and sheeting.
It was an excellent course and up until reading this thread, I thought that was the way everyone did it back then.
They packed it all in when they introduced this ridiculous crap that makes a driver waste his time learning to drive a class 2, Then upgrading to class 1.
If a driver intends to drive class 1 lorries, Then he should be allowed to put his money into an intensive course to drive what he intends to drive.
tallyman:
I remember when I took it I was using a flatbed trailer and the instructor had stuck small markers in different places so that as I was reversing I could line those up with the cones, lines etc. and know it was spot-on. Obviously very good for passing the test but I soon realised that not all trailers has the same markersI’ve noticed that all training schools these days use box trailers, is that a requirement or just so they can advertise at the same time?.
If memory serves it is now a requirement for the candidate to use a trailer which does not allow “through vision” ie not a flat bed or skelly. I think it also became a requirement to use a “compound” gearbox, whereas previously you could turn up with the easiest option- the four- or five-speed synchro jobbie.
I’m sure ROG will be able to correct me if I’ve got it all wrong.
Retired Old ■■■■:
tallyman:
I remember when I took it I was using a flatbed trailer and the instructor had stuck small markers in different places so that as I was reversing I could line those up with the cones, lines etc. and know it was spot-on. Obviously very good for passing the test but I soon realised that not all trailers has the same markersI’ve noticed that all training schools these days use box trailers, is that a requirement or just so they can advertise at the same time?.
If memory serves it is now a requirement for the candidate to use a trailer which does not allow “through vision” ie not a flat bed or skelly. I think it also became a requirement to use a “compound” gearbox, whereas previously you could turn up with the easiest option- the four- or five-speed synchro jobbie.
I’m sure ROG will be able to correct me if I’ve got it all wrong.
you are correct - the trailer must be at least as high and as wide as the towing vehicle - same applies to behind the cab on a rigid
All gearboxes must have at least 8 different forward gear options
ready long ,long time instructor teach driving,but more teach first pass tests.if you not pass why need long training.all depend from people .some people when start work after 1-2 month caN reversing to anywhere,some people after 10 years driving just ,just.and second now driving training for class 1 cost may be around 1200 pound .but if instructor start teach you proffesionaly -HOW MUCH WILL BE TRAINING ■■?AND if any new drivers after passing test not sure about revesing ,he can go to school ,pay some money,and taked extra training.
ROG:
albion1971:
ROG:
Instructor quals do not include a test on the ability to teach reversing but to be fair do look at general ability to instructThe LGV instructor test part 3 is not the same as the car ADI one and there are no tests or check tests with a real pupil
Yes they do.The 2 basic LGV instructors courses I have done both requires you to talk a student through the reverse.
It could be more involved but as usual it comes down to time and money.
Are you referring to the DSA qual ?
Yes latterly with the MOD we had to go through a DSA driving test with no more than 6 faults and a instructor lesson with a proper pupil which included the reversing exercise talk through however I realise that the MOD tend to do things slightly differently to civilian companies.
I have got to say that the RTITB instructors course which was very professionally done and quite tough to pass was really beneficial and taught me an awful lot that I thought I already knew.
Saying all that you can still get a qualified instructor who is lazy and not conscientious and the pupils suffer.
I still say it all needs to be tightened up because at the moment the LGV test is more of a lottery than a test.
Couldn’t agree more with the ‘‘no power steering’’ posts above, you sharpened up PDQ, couple of minor shunts with a leg braced against the dash and hauling that sodding great wheel through hand over hand like hauling in a ships anchor had you sweating and knackered in no time.
I was extremely lucky in my instructor, Jimmy Morrison at Export and General, Dunstable.
He taught his pupils to drive a lorry not just to pass a test, apart from the normal S reverse he set out a series of cones to zig zag through, and when he thought you i up to it had me reverse the zig zag back.
I’m eternally grateful to Jimmy for his real instruction.
Coincidentally i was thinking about this very subject today, called in for a break at Corley South, Jesus wept theres some incompetent sods about.
ROG:
Retired Old ■■■■:
tallyman:
I remember when I took it I was using a flatbed trailer and the instructor had stuck small markers in different places so that as I was reversing I could line those up with the cones, lines etc. and know it was spot-on. Obviously very good for passing the test but I soon realised that not all trailers has the same markersI’ve noticed that all training schools these days use box trailers, is that a requirement or just so they can advertise at the same time?.
If memory serves it is now a requirement for the candidate to use a trailer which does not allow “through vision” ie not a flat bed or skelly. I think it also became a requirement to use a “compound” gearbox, whereas previously you could turn up with the easiest option- the four- or five-speed synchro jobbie.
I’m sure ROG will be able to correct me if I’ve got it all wrong.you are correct - the trailer must be at least as high and as wide as the towing vehicle - same applies to behind the cab on a rigid
All gearboxes must have at least 8 different forward gear options
I remember when I did my class 2, my instructor pointed out what I thought was the smallest 7.5 tonner I’d ever seen. Turns out it was plated to 12, and he’d had it fitted with a split box.
In his words, not mine, “he sticks a trailer the size of a portaloo on that, and you can take your class 1 in it. God help anyone that takes an artic out after that”
It only needs that gearbox apparently to make it test compliant, no range changing ever takes place as it will happily pull off in 5th or even 6th.
Paul if the vehicle is used on a test the driver has to demonstrate that he can use the range change.
albion1971:
Paul if the vehicle is used on a test the driver has to demonstrate that he can use the range change.
You sure thats still the case Albion?
I had a surprise on the first module of the DCPC bollox, the DSA instructor who took the class seemed quite happy that new drivers are no longer instructed in nor tested on.:-
Gear changing exercise
Controlled emergency stop
and indoctrinated with this brakes to slow gears to go crap.
I enquired of him what they expected to happen when the poor young chap he trained that passes today happens to get a job in the Derbyshire Dales on a 44 ton bulker and is happily steaming down bloody 1 in 7 hills using only the brakes as instructed?, he had no answer other than the likes of Stobbies will train them in their preferred methods…WTF?
I gave up the will to live at that point and tuned out, Jimmy Morrison my old trainer would have gone ballistic.
albion1971:
Paul if the vehicle is used on a test the driver has to demonstrate that he can use the range change.
I did my test and used the box on mine properly, but as far I was concerned, if I’d gone with the other place, I didn’t have to use the box, just be able to use a motor that had one.
In fact the more I think about it, the more I recall my instructor telling me that it pulls off in high range,
And I don’t profess to be an HGV authority, but the criteria for the test is that it must have 8 forward gears, no mention of the accessibility of said gears.
Juddian:
albion1971:
Paul if the vehicle is used on a test the driver has to demonstrate that he can use the range change.You sure thats still the case Albion?
I had a surprise on the first module of the DCPC bollox, the DSA instructor who took the class seemed quite happy that new drivers are no longer instructed in nor tested on.:-
Gear changing exercise
Controlled emergency stopand indoctrinated with this brakes to slow gears to go crap.
I enquired of him what they expected to happen when the poor young chap he trained that passes today happens to get a job in the Derbyshire Dales on a 44 ton bulker and is happily steaming down bloody 1 in 7 hills using only the brakes as instructed?, he had no answer other than the likes of Stobbies will train them in their preferred methods…WTF?
I gave up the will to live at that point and tuned out, Jimmy Morrison my old trainer would have gone ballistic.
Fairly certain Juddian but I can easily find out for sure with a quick call.The DCPC guy maybe quite happy but he is wrong.They still carry out both exercises for good reason.
As far as your story about brakes gears etc remember an instructor has to teach the student what the examiner wants to see otherwise he or she will fail.
The whole system stinks hence we have so many poor drivers on our roads.
I took my class 1 last October and I can definitely confirm that the gear exercise and the emergency stop are no longer part of the test, so perhaps I’m not talking out of my ring about range changes?
Just a thought eh?
PaulNowak:
albion1971:
Paul if the vehicle is used on a test the driver has to demonstrate that he can use the range change.I did my test and used the box on mine properly, but as far I was concerned, if I’d gone with the other place, I didn’t have to use the box, just be able to use a motor that had one.
In fact the more I think about it, the more I recall my instructor telling me that it pulls off in high range,
And I don’t profess to be an HGV authority, but the criteria for the test is that it must have 8 forward gears, no mention of the accessibility of said gears.
This regulation was started the same time as box bodies had to be used.I honestly cannot see the DSA suddenly saying you do not need to show you can use the range change anymore but I will certainly find out.
Some of the vehicles we used could pull off in high but you still had to demonstrate you could go up and down through the range.
PaulNowak:
I took my class 1 last October and I can definitely confirm that the gear exercise and the emergency stop are no longer part of the test, so perhaps I’m not talking out of my ring about range changes?Just a thought eh?
Hmm very interesting.I will make a call tomorrow not that I do not believe you but am so surprised.Why would they do that?
I will get back to you on it.
In the meantime this kinda backs me up!
Call whoever you want
PaulNowak:
Call whoever you want
Yes I will and as I said I will get back to you.Very interesting indeed.