From the amount of newly qualified and not so qualified drivers and the issues with reversing its made me wonder how it is taught now. In my day (over 25 years ago) I have to admit it was poor. I had 4 day lessons (twin manned) with the test on the last. Now my instructor never taught us ANY reversing except how to pass, which looking back was atrocious. He basically told us to pull up to the line then it was something like two turns left down, then two turns right, then another two turns right (or something like that - it was a long time ago) and the trailer just popped into the alloted area.
When i passed i was already driving class 2 for a builders merchant, my first shot on artics was trunking to 25branches over the course of a week and they all pretty much bollock tight so they put me with the agency driver who had been covering for a few months while the normal driver was off sick, that bit of on the job training was invaluable and had they of sent me out on my own (which they were going to until a couple of drivers said it was a very bad idea) i wouldnt of got into at least 3/4 of them without getting hooked up on something…
midlifetrucker:
From the amount of newly qualified and not so qualified drivers and the issues with reversing its made me wonder how it is taught now. In my day (over 25 years ago) I have to admit it was poor. I had 4 day lessons (twin manned) with the test on the last. Now my instructor never taught us ANY reversing except how to pass, which looking back was atrocious. He basically told us to pull up to the line then it was something like two turns left down, then two turns right, then another two turns right (or something like that - it was a long time ago) and the trailer just popped into the alloted area.
is it any different now? Sounds like maybe not.
Was still exactly the same when i too my test around 7/8 years ago.
You could always ask Mr Smyth for his opinion but I know as a certainty that 3 years ago it was over a grand for C to CE course and of you wanted to learn proper reversing it was to the tune of £50 an hour… Obviously I went elsewhere.
An awful lot depends on the instructor and his qualifications.I have known many so called instructors that have not a clue how to teach someone how to reverse a trailer.
It requires technique and sometimes a lot of patience.
You can teach anyone to do the reverse for a test by telling them one turn here or 2 turns there and do this when you get to that point but when it come to reality after the test the person has not a clue.
I have also known instructors to just talk the person through the exercise again and again which really teaches them nothing.
I have also known many that just stand and shout and tell the person how useless they are.
Ideally you need plenty space where you can let them have a play as to how the unit and trailer react.Some benefit from this more than others.
Once they can grasp how the trailer reacts you need to show them the best steering technique and also how to control their speed.
Another thing that is very important is to show them how to make full use of a shunt if they require one…ie position etc.
As with most training EDIP is best…explanation…demonstration…imitation and practice.
The test was the same with a handy chalk mark on teh side to help stop just right.
However my dad took me to his bosses yard and they let me play about with an old FL7 and a flat bed reversing round various cones they put out.
A good days practise both blind and normal
First job I did I was having abit of trouble revbersing into a building to get loaded and an older driver talked me through it.
Rather than standing pointing and laughing with the rest he walked over and gave me directions.
5 minutes which helped and gave me confidence that I wasn’t the only one.
Helped me and is one reason I can’t stand it when drivers just dismiss someone as useless when they are havimng problems.
The standard exercise that allows ‘by the numbers’ style training by lazy instructors, eager to up their pass rate, is no use at all. I would favour introducing a variable exercise which results in teaching proper reversing.
I took my test just over a year ago (British army) and yes we’re taught to pass the test, however once were qualified to drive we do get a lot of familiarisation training with the vehicles we mainly operate.
So basically its the same old and that explains everyones problems. It is flawed. As someone has said maybe a mock bay with cones should be set up for the test.
The greatest way to learn how to reverse perfectly every time and to learn very quickly indeed and I am sure older drivers will fully agree,do away with power steering.Daft as it sounds I remember
years ago having the same complaints as these new guys but they don’t cry with the pain,the effort of correcting their mistakes without power steering we did and we learnt fast cause it was too
damned hard to rectify an error.At the end of a day when I first started my arms used to be on fire,it was easier to learn fast how to do it right than to prolong the agony by getting it wrong.Now
the major fault is over turning the steering wheel cause it’s an easy thing to do.
The way I learnt to reverse was on nights at Norberts, it was a case of have to as I was delivering to DAF and Ford garages and there were quite often brand new unregistered vehicles dotted around the place in dark unlit yards
Armagedon. I’m an older (retired) driver and couldn’t agree more. What you do need is a bit of self confidence, not big headedness, just confidence in yourself to do it.
midlifetrucker:
So basically its the same old and that explains everyones problems. It is flawed. As someone has said maybe a mock bay with cones should be set up for the test.
Got to admit i’m shocked its still the same.
Sorry but did you miss my post? It is not the same if you get a reputable training company with properly qualified instructors.
Also most training companies have mock bays but you still need someone who can teach the reverse properly.
Armagedon:
The greatest way to learn how to reverse perfectly every time and to learn very quickly indeed and I am sure older drivers will fully agree,do away with power steering.Daft as it sounds I remember
years ago having the same complaints as these new guys but they don’t cry with the pain,the effort of correcting their mistakes without power steering,we did and we learnt fast cause it was too
damned hard to rectify an error.At the end of a day when I first started my arms used to be on fire,it was easier to learn fast how to do it right than to prolong the agony by getting it wrong.Now
the major fault is over turning the steering wheel cause it’s an easy thing to do.
That got me laughing.I would love to see the latest generation of truck drivers trying to reverse without power steering.
I agree there is far to much oversteering with some but a lot would be there all day without assisted steering.
They would be to knackered to do anything else after one reverse!
I remember when I took it I was using a flatbed trailer and the instructor had stuck small markers in different places so that as I was reversing I could line those up with the cones, lines etc. and know it was spot-on. Obviously very good for passing the test but I soon realised that not all trailers has the same markers
I’ve noticed that all training schools these days use box trailers, is that a requirement or just so they can advertise at the same time?.
midlifetrucker:
So basically its the same old and that explains everyones problems. It is flawed. As someone has said maybe a mock bay with cones should be set up for the test.
Got to admit i’m shocked its still the same.
Sorry but did you miss my post? It is not the same if you get a reputable training company with properly qualified instructors.
Also most training companies have mock bays but you still need someone who can teach the reverse properly.
No I didnt miss your post. While I agree about getting a reputable training company it doesnt always work like that. Human nature will on the whole make people look for the cheapest. The need for change is required by the testing system as well. If someone turns up on the day not knowing what reverse he/she has to do then reversing would have to be taught. After all your first day at work you have no idea what to expect.
When i did my lessons, the instructor said, turn the wheel left, then right, stop in that gap. Then he left me to it and went for a coffee. Got into all kinds of knots practising.
Then the day after i passed my test, the first job i got from my firm was Woolies at Swindon.
Instructor qualifications have no bearing on this whatsoever
A good instructor will not only teach the test reverse but also get the trainee to perform other reverses in ‘real life’ which might simply be reversing it into its end of day ■■■■■■■■■■■■ of a parallel park near the T bar
Teaching the basic underpinning knowledge is crucial so the trainee can utilise that knowledge for every situation
Any instructor that teaches just the test reverse on the practise area is not doing the trainee any favours especially if they are teaching the trainee to use bits of the vehicle and trailer to determine when to do what because it is unlikely that they will ever get that exact scenario in real life.
When I first went into instructing I found a few old timers teaching the above and decided that was not the way to do it so used the underpinning knowledge method which got trainees to test reverse standard much quicker (2 hours for 2 trainees instead of 4 hours for 1 trainee on average) and allowed them to use that knowledge for other situations - my qualifications … common sense
As I have mentioned in other threads,I started truck driving when I left the army in '68.
I got a job driving a TK,then moved up to an Albion Riever.
One day the boss gave me a set of keys for an AEC Mandator and single axle trailer and told me to get on with it!
That’s a steep learning curve,and I’m still trying to get it right!
Instructor qualifications have no bearing on this whatsoever
Sorry Rog but that is very rarely true.There might be the odd lorry driver that may have a natural ability to pass on knowledge but the majority certainly do not.
I can speak from experience on that as when I started training all I had was my licence.I was trained and observed by qualified insrtuctors for about one year and then trained and qualified as an RTITB instructor.
While doing that course I realised how much I was missing and gained so much training knowledge that helped myself and the pupils immensely.
As with anything I improved with experience but if I had not had any training I would have been giving my way of thinking which was not right.
After five years I then went to work for the MOD but even although I was RTITB approved and registered I had to do their LGV instructors course which incidently was a complete waste of time.
However it has now improved as the standards were so poor.
Do you really think qualified instructors only show the test reversing exercise?
I have done many different training courses over the years and gained valuable knowledge but with out it would probably just be confusing students as most without qualifications do.They can get them through a test but they are certainly not trained properly to drive an LGV.
