im with dennis
Hi everybody, this is an interesting thread ! I have had four lorries in preservation now over the last thirty years, the first two were ERFs and the second two Fodens. My first lorry was an LV ERF tractor unit YWX664G this lorry was purchased from a friend of mine during the mid 80s after it had been demoted to working on a farm shunting tatie bulkers and it was in a right old state ! But it was a runner and it was cheap, I restored it over the next three years and got in touch with the original owner Rookes Transport who were more than helpful in getting it back to its original livery. The lorry survives today and is now in the ownership of Craigs of Denny and is a show winner and all because I saved it !
My next lorry also an ERF LV, four wheeler flat, this belonged to Mitchells Transport at York and was driven by me on general haulage. In 1991 my boss Bill Mitchell decided to retire and the ERF GBT309L was bought by me for preservation after selling my first ERF. Mitchells used to run boxvans so I replaced GBTs platform body with a boxvan, the lorry was restored in its original livery and the interior of the van was made into a caravan.
I sold GBT in 1994 for a number of reasons but she still survives today in the same livery but minus the lettering and now has another box body on.
In 2003 I bought an S39 Foden tractor unit, MLP194L was new to British Alluminium and during its life had been with several owners including the fairground. I restored this lorry as a ballast tractor in the livery of Elliotts of York whom I worked for during the 60s. But my real ideal lorry had to be an S20 Foden, and in 2008 I bought 552LNU a 6x4 S20 tractor unit that had been beautifully restored by Andy Turner of Eldwick West Yorks.
I repainted LNU into the livery of Elliotts of York and over the last few years have made it look just like the lorry that I worked on as a lad and now it looks just like XVY102 my old lorry. But LNU was originally a concrete mixer for Arden Quarries in the peak district after which it went into service for the fairground where it worked as an artic unit. Andy Turner bought LNU from them after it had fell into a terrible state of disrepair and its him that saved the lorry and he painted it in his own livery with his own name on it, but the main thing is that it was saved and brought back to life !
I still own LNU today and take it various shows around and about, I make no attempt to hide its origins because when ever someone says to me at a rally the they remember this lorry at Elliotts I tell that its not in fact an Elliotts lorry sad to say.
But as far as restoring it to its original livery goes where the hell do you get a Ransome Rapier concrete mixer body from ?
I intend to keep the lorry indefinately but at some time in the future it will come up for sale when I fall off my perch and then if someone so wishes they restore it back to its original condition ie; a mixer, but if it hadn’t been for Andy and others like myself none of these four lorries would be here today !!! 
Pipers and tunes comes to mind! 
Having Restored several veh i ve found some of the comments made by : rivit counters : at times stupid and at other times frankly insulting and usualy made by people who either dont know the first thing about restoration and certainly havent got a background in transport or they wouldnt be making the comments they do, these people get short shrift from me and as a result i dont get many birthday cards fro m the likes of these. However what dose make it worthwhile is the old boy who used to drive one in anger day in out or the young kid who asks a multitude of what seem at times stupid questions for these i have all the time in the world, the old boy because i learn from him (even after 50 yrs in the game ) and the young lad because you turn him away and tell him not to touch your precious paint job and you, ve lost the very person whos going to restore the FL12 , Daf 95 Merc in the future. Liveries ect dont matter ,a lot of companies ran veh in many paint jobs and had veh modified for their particular use ,derated , lift axles, pushers all manner of weird and strange machines. My main gripe is in the restoration game there are to many snobs and open the magazines and month in month out its the same vehicles over and over e.g. take a review of say Gaydon show look at a copy say2007 and look at a copy 2013 you d think the same 5 or 6 people attended never the guy who bought a rust bucket did all the work under asheet in his back garden on ashoe string budget and has just driven it 150 mile with all the expence involved he never gets a mention yet his veh is just as important because at the end of it its another one saved , Original livery is nice but its not the be all and end all, I know quite a few lads that dont attend major shows now and just go to the smaller shows where they can have a couple of pints a bit of a natter and the people who do come to look take the vehicle for what it is not what some anorak thinks it should be.
norfolk:
My main gripe is in the restoration game there are to many snobs and open the magazines and month in month out its the same vehicles over and over e.g. take a review of say Gaydon show look at a copy say2007 and look at a copy 2013 you d think the same 5 or 6 people attended never the guy who bought a rust bucket did all the work under asheet in his back garden on ashoe string budget and has just driven it 150 mile with all the expence involved he never gets a mention yet his veh is just as important because at the end of it its another one saved
Funnily enough, Marky took up cudgels on that one too, as what followed was a write-up in C&VC of the restoration of the Bowker-liveried Borderer, which was NOT funded by Bowker, however helpful they were.
As it happens, that is restored in its absolutely correct original livery, but I’ve had a foot in both camps there. When my View-Line was done, I couldn’t bear to inflict RTITB colours on it. When John Killingbeck said to me, “You want to make it look like a proper haulage wagon,” I couldn’t have put it better myself.
I think we succeeded:
BVB 457H Atkinson ‘Silver Knight’ T3046X by Gardner 8LXB, on Flickr
I quite agree you have suceeded and having taken my test in a viewliner in 71 i also agree that the rtib white and black was hardly the most eye catching of liverys, i also agree with Markys point of view regarding what i refer to the as the snobish attitude of some people , the livery is down to the person who restored it , not to some so called expert,and when a man of the stature of John says paint it in a certain way he has earned the right to make that opinion , not somebody whos never driven or lifted a spanner in their life. Unfortunately as i said because your moter in the eyes of some people isnt " right " it wont get the coverage it rightly deserves.
Hi, of course a lorry in a old existing or no more existing, company is a real marvellous wagon, but it must be possible.we realy are missing that in belgium.But we aren’t a vintage lorry country. 
.And expecially we had some nice coloured companies and of course England too.
Cheers Eric,
No matter how many happy memories and how much nostalgia an “original” liveried lorry generates, surely it’s the lorry’s owner who should decide what colour he’s going to paint it?
I speak from some experience- I’m remembering just what happened when I dared to express my preference for a certain shade of paint in the marital lounge! But the paramedic was absolutely right- I DID get over it, eventually!
There is an old saying “you can never please all of the people,all of the time” 
Hi, this is the first time I have ever replied on this forum but after reading some of the comments posted I would just like to add my personal opinion. I am in the school of original livery if at all possible (I have restored a 1983 ERF ‘C’ series 6x2 tractor unit new to the Milk Marketing Board & repainted in their ‘pacific blue’ livery. I have also restored a 1972 ‘LV’ ERF 6x4 rigid, new to A L Jones, Corwen & owned by them all its working life. That is also still in original livery. I am currently restoring the sister vehicle to the LV, also owned by A L Jones & this too will be put back in original colours.) Anyway back to the point. It is entirely up to the person putting his hard work, blood, sweat, tears & money into the job what he does with it. The main thing is the vehicle has been saved from the scrapyard which has got to be a good thing.
Totally agree as long as the vehicles saved who cares I’ve done 4 in my own livery and 3 in original and once you have done them you often wonder if they would have looked better in a different livery but as long as its saved it don’t really matter.If you own it do what you want with it it’s yours your never make everyone happy
this is quite interesting seeing all these comments, i would like to own a restored classic truck but funds do not allow .but i do notice that trucks restored on a very tight budget are more realistic to me having been brought up working with trucks in the 60’s as they have a certain ‘worked’ look about them that makes them bring back memories of my late father.the smell of leaking diesel in the cab, well used old ropes and sheets, old damp timber in the flatbed .back in the 60’s trucks were used and abused ,some run 24 / 7 .no fancy paint,no chrome wheelnuts . yes some old fleets had a bit of flash on their motors but that certain look and feel of them after a hard weeks work just adds something to it. i fully understand the debate about correct liveries and sit on the fence on that . if i could afford a truck it would be an example of the trucks that the firm my father used to drive for restored in their fleet colours (there are only 2 trucks out of 150 + from the old firm in preservation that we know off). it would be a reminder of the good old days. bob.
Bewick:
I’ll probably get “slaughtered” so I’ll keep my opinion to my=self !!!
Opinions seem to be varied on this very emotive subject so here go’s with my two-pen’erth.I do acknowledge the fact that the owner and restorer of an old motor is fully entitled to finish paint and letter to his own taste be it “Fairytale Roadways”,“Dream On Haulage” or whatever takes his fancy!However,IM(humble)O a restored motor should be painted and lettered in an authentic manner,not necessarily in the actual livery of the origional operator but at least in that of an actual operator that ran a similar motor in the same era.Tony Knowles is the foremost example of my idea of old motor restorations and he,of course,uses the origional Knowles livery,not the modern day livery of his fine Transport co.Right Lads give me time to get to the Bomb shelter,I’m not as quick on the old pins as I used to be,pip pip.Cheers Bewick.
Well if I had the time and money, I’d love a Bedford O Type done in what I believe to have been Bernard T. Frosts’ livery. I don’t think a photo exists of them but I bet a red coal wagon with white writing around my home town would only stand out to a few older residents and my Dads’ family.
On the other hand, I could attach a smiling face onto the grille, paint “Sodor Coal Co” on the doors and it’d strike a chord with many more people, of all ages.
Has the all clear been sounded ? Bewick.
Bewick:
Bewick:
I’ll probably get “slaughtered” so I’ll keep my opinion to my=self !!!Opinions seem to be varied on this very emotive subject so here go’s with my two-pen’erth.I do acknowledge the fact that the owner and restorer of an old motor is fully entitled to finish paint and letter to his own taste be it “Fairytale Roadways”,“Dream On Haulage” or whatever takes his fancy!However,IM(humble)O a restored motor should be painted and lettered in an authentic manner,not necessarily in the actual livery of the origional operator but at least in that of an actual operator that ran a similar motor in the same era.Tony Knowles is the foremost example of my idea of old motor restorations and he,of course,uses the origional Knowles livery,not the modern day livery of his fine Transport co.Right Lads give me time to get to the Bomb shelter,I’m not as quick on the old pins as I used to be,pip pip.Cheers Bewick.
But isn’t Tony Knowles doing the exact same as the restorers original question.
Yes he’s painting the vehicles in his original livery but not all the vehicles were ran by him.
I was once told he ran an ex NMU (1953) Foden in his colours as his father originally ran them.
Is there a difference between him doing this and me for instance buying one and running it in my own fictitious colours?
I was once also told by an ex London Transport boy that the Rouitemasters had the AEC lump removed and replaced with a Scania one.
How do we stand on that one?
Soldier z:
Bewick:
Bewick:
I’ll probably get “slaughtered” so I’ll keep my opinion to my=self !!!Opinions seem to be varied on this very emotive subject so here go’s with my two-pen’erth.I do acknowledge the fact that the owner and restorer of an old motor is fully entitled to finish paint and letter to his own taste be it “Fairytale Roadways”,“Dream On Haulage” or whatever takes his fancy!However,IM(humble)O a restored motor should be painted and lettered in an authentic manner,not necessarily in the actual livery of the origional operator but at least in that of an actual operator that ran a similar motor in the same era.Tony Knowles is the foremost example of my idea of old motor restorations and he,of course,uses the origional Knowles livery,not the modern day livery of his fine Transport co.Right Lads give me time to get to the Bomb shelter,I’m not as quick on the old pins as I used to be,pip pip.Cheers Bewick.
But isn’t Tony Knowles doing the exact same as the restorers original question.
Yes he’s painting the vehicles in his original livery but not all the vehicles were ran by him.
I was once told he ran an ex NMU (1953) Foden in his colours as his father originally ran them.
Is there a difference between him doing this and me for instance buying one and running it in my own fictitious colours?I was once also told by an ex London Transport boy that the Rouitemasters had the AEC lump removed and replaced with a Scania one.
How do we stand on that one?
Exactly “soldier”,the operative word is “fictitious” and that was what I was meaning,but you can’t say that Knowles livery is fictitious can you ! and what the re-engineering of Routmasters has got to do with it I’m at a loss to connect the two ! Cheers Bewick.
If I can remember my time in London (1980s/'90s) with any clarity- highly unlikely- the AEC badges were removed from the front of the RMs, at about the same time they had the engines changed. This was vandalism, in my opinion. It was as if London Transport was ashamed of its history or, possibly, they were ashamed that a great London company had been allowed to die.
[quote="BewickExactly “soldier”,the operative word is “fictitious” and that was what I was meaning,but you can’t say that Knowles livery is fictitious can you ! and what the re-engineering of Routmasters has got to do with it I’m at a loss to connect the two ! Cheers Bewick.[/quote]
Hi Bewick.
My point re Tony Knowles was in regard to the original posters question:
hilltop4:
How many superbly restored wagons are out there who lack that final touch…their original livery?
I fully understand some peoples reasons for opting to put their name on the headboards and doors of their wagons. For a kick off, there may be no surviving information to aissist them…thats fair enough.However, it horrifies me when I see wagons restored into ficticious companies just because their owners either couldn’t be bothered to research their wagon, or worse still, have a soft spot for a firm, but couldn’t find one of their wagons, and end up restoring their Volvo in the livery of a comapnay that was exclusively Scania
That, I’m sorry to say seems to me to totally contradict the whole point to restoring the wagon in the first place. They may aswell go that final step and put a false number plate on too!I am a firm believer in that if there is info and images available, they should be placed in their original livery. After all, if you are re-painting, theres no more work involved to do it in its first company’s colours. But what do you think?
My point was that although Knowles livery isn’t fictitious it neither isn’t the original livery of some of his vehicles.
Therefore is there any diference in taking a ex NMU Foden and rubbing it’s colours down and painting it in Knowles colours or my own.
Shouldn’t it in the eyes of a purist be put back in it’s original livery?
Likewise my point about the AEC RM.
Earlier poster indicated “rivet counters” whoo take great delight in pointing out flaws in vehicles and why they aren’t original.
If you buy an RM direct from LT who have operated them for 40 years and it arrives with a Scania engine what do you do?
Do you hide it away because it’s not original or take the grief at shows?
Like wise vehicles I’m sure many a TK was converted from petrol to diesel does that mean it can’t be shown as original?
I remember my dad dropping a recon engine into our MK 1 ■■■■■■ in the 70’s.
It seemed that things like that were done more back then than now.
I’m not trying to cause an argument or anything just trying to define original.
I quite agree with the last post, what do you define as original ? Many firms modified moters for there own particular use eg. An old boy that ran acompany not far from me had run Leylands for donkeys years and the Leyland Museam heard that he had a particular early example so they went to see him, he duely took them down to a corner of his warehouse and under asheet stood this waggon when they raised the bonnet they found it contained a Gardner engine dissapointed they asked what happend to the original engine he pointed to another sheet and said " its under there " and so it was with very low milage on it . He said that he never rated that particular engine but liked the rest of the moter so they used to put Gardners in them and only replace the Leyland engine if they ever came to sell the moters on. Now then which engine do you show the vehicle with ?