How many superbly restored wagons are out there who lack that final touch…their original livery? My opening line leaves you in no doubt as to which camp I am in.
I fully understand some peoples reasons for opting to put their name on the headboards and doors of their wagons. For a kick off, there may be no surviving information to aissist them…thats fair enough.
However, it horrifies me when I see wagons restored into ficticious companies just because their owners either couldn’t be bothered to research their wagon, or worse still, have a soft spot for a firm, but couldn’t find one of their wagons, and end up restoring their Volvo in the livery of a comapnay that was exclusively Scania
That, I’m sorry to say seems to me to totally contradict the whole point to restoring the wagon in the first place. They may aswell go that final step and put a false number plate on too!
I am a firm believer in that if there is info and images available, they should be placed in their original livery. After all, if you are re-painting, theres no more work involved to do it in its first company’s colours.
Hi
Ours are done in our livery to advertise our company but if you are an indivduel then its up to you but some firms you would not want on your lorry such as Stobbart
Cheers Rich
its up to the person thats restored the truck surely theyve put the hard work and time into it. i just paint mine white cab green round the bottom and has our company name on them
Hi I have done some in my own and some in original as long as its saved it dont realy matter
The way everythings going for export there be nothing to restore soon any way
mrken:
Hi I have done some in my own and some in original as long as its saved it dont realy matter
The way everythings going for export there be nothing to restore soon any way
I once had quite a ‘spat’ with a famous archivist about this in print within the letters pages of one of the classics comics. The point I responded to was specifically related to a comment he made in his column about resenting inaccurate or fictitious liveries on what he considered to be preserved/restored vehicles which had provenance. I responded by making the same point Ken has made; it’s the choice of the owner and it’s not really anyone else’s business.
I also made the point that the very same person was (at that time) running a Maudslay Meritor in Allison’s of Dundee livery, when it was actually a factory vehicle which never carried any such colours during it’s working life!! In fact, the owner had actually published pictures he’d taken while it was still in the original factory paint - undermining his very own argument. My comments weren’t very well received - at all. In fact, some of the sycophants who hang on his every word were very quick to air their misguided views soon afterwards.
It’s a very prickly subject, one which raises hackles whenever it gets raised and just brings into focus some of the people on the restoration scene who like to make people think their opinions are worth more than everyone elses. It’s one of the reasons I backed away from it all because I was sick & tired of listening to petty jealousy, sniping and sheer nastiness every time someone unveiled their latest restoration.
My own opinion is that securing the vehicle is the first priority. If the owner can afford & chooses to re-create an original livery, all well & good.
I bought a 32 year old lorry in 1970, approached the original owners, who showed no interest. They were only a two lorry firm, so their livery didn’t mean much to anybody who didn’t know them. I didn’t like their colour anyway so painted it in my colours, then changed it again in 1977, still my livery. It’s still the same now, 42 years on, I’ve owned it now for much longer than either of the previous owners, so my livery is probably the most authentic. When I first started in commercial vehicle preservation, most preserved vehicles were “backyard” restorations, carried out by impoverished DIYers usually in less than perfect conditions, they were rightly proud of what they’d achieved and wanted their name on it. Times have changed, a lot of money invested in superb professional restorations, and it’s nice to see a vehicle turned out in it’s original owner’s livery, especially if it’s a well known company. But it’s also nice to see the well -turned out vehicles from the “one man bands”, and after all most of the lorries from the big fleets end up passing through the hands of several further owners, and carrying several liveries during their working lives, so the preservation scene is only echoing that. I’m not keen myself on lorries that never belonged to them being restored as replicas of vehicles once operated by well-known companies, but there’s often a nostalgic reason, like " I used to drive one", or “Dad used to drive one”, good luck to their owners, it’s a free country and as far as I’m concerned, they can paint it sky blue pink with yellow spots on, at least it’s preserved .
Bernard
not this bs again , who cares as long as trucks are being saved and restored ! , this is the sort of thing that puts off a younger generation taking a interest in the preservation scene !
pdw:
not this bs again , who cares as long as trucks are being saved and restored ! , this is the sort of thing that puts off a younger generation taking a interest in the preservation scene !
■■
So it’s not even allowed as a discussion topic? Maybe you’re pursuing the wrong interest if your tolerance levels don’t even extended to civilised discussion.
Yes I also want to know that because from my experience the people who bang on about this have never had anything todo with restoring a lorry. I no what handwork, time, and expense goes into this and it should be nobodies buisiness but the person who’s restoring the vehicle as long as these vehicles are being restored what does it matter
In response to one or two obvious attempts at being big knobs,…please forgive me. I was under the impression that this forum was public, and open to anyone with an interest in lorries wishing to engage in debate with like minded people. Had I realised that you had to actually own a lorry before placing a post, I would of course rushed out and bought one before registering with the forum. After all, I don’t want to get into trouble for breaking your rules.
I am trying to see where one or two people appear to have got a little ‘shouty’, but frankly, am struggling. I can only conclude that the majority of replies thus far are form chaps who have as you say, pleased themselves. Their money…their right…fair enough!
I do find it interesting though, that the same right appears to be suddenly and mysteriously disregarded when an individual wishes to express an opinion.
In response to the issue being “BS”, and the type of thing to drive younger and new blood away from the scene,…on the contrary my friend. Its not the debate of authenticity that will do this, its the incapacity to hold open and civil debate on matters, coupled with a ‘rod off’ attitude toward anyone who dares to have an opinion that will drive newcomers away.
Cheers
hilltop4:
In response to one or two obvious attempts at being big knobs,…please forgive me. I was under the impression that this forum was public, and open to anyone with an interest in lorries wishing to engage in debate with like minded people. Had I realised that you had to actually own a lorry before placing a post, I would of course rushed out and bought one before registering with the forum. After all, I don’t want to get into trouble for breaking your rules.
I am trying to see where one or two people appear to have got a little ‘shouty’, but frankly, am struggling. I can only conclude that the majority of replies thus far are form chaps who have as you say, pleased themselves. Their money…their right…fair enough!
I do find it interesting though, that the same right appears to be suddenly and mysteriously disregarded when an individual wishes to express an opinion.
In response to the issue being “BS”, and the type of thing to drive younger and new blood away from the scene,…on the contrary my friend. Its not the debate of authenticity that will do this, its the incapacity to hold open and civil debate on matters, coupled with a ‘rod off’ attitude toward anyone who dares to have an opinion that will drive newcomers away.
Cheers
Good reply hilltop4, and some very valid points but (as the owner of an ‘in restoration’ truck) I believe it’s totally down to the person paying to choose the livery.
I do however understand were some of the more ‘aggitated’ replies come from, I’m into motorbike racing & used to race ‘Forgotten Era’ bikes (basically 1970’s mostly Jap’ stuff) and have lost count of how many people have stood beside my bike at a race meeting passing judgment on it’s authenticity & getting so many facts wrong. In fact most of these people seem prepared to tell me how lacking in authenticity my bike is & how I should “put it right” often going on to explain how I’m doing the manufacturers of these classic racing bikes an injustice!!! I bought it & I’ll modify it in any way I see fit, & the joke is they are mostly totally wrong & wouldn’t know a TZ350c from a TZ350e and it’s these hypocrites that totally wreck my brain.
Please don’t think I’m placing you in that catagory, it’s a free ccountry & you are as entitled as anyone to have your own opinion & put it in writing on here, imagine if we all liked the same things!! (it’d be a pretty uninteresting world!! try reading ‘Utopia’ by Thomas More )
I am in the process of looking at buying a wagon to do up/restore. I personally lean towards the my younger days, before I started driving myself, to the wagons that I grew up on, but some of which I did go on to drive myself. Tankers is my game,20 of my 30 yrs wagon driving being on tankers, Dad drove wagons all his life, but I was born in 1964, & he went on Mobil in '66, going on to complete 23 yrs service before retiring, so as I started going with him when I was 5, it was Scammell Highwayman’s, AEC Mammoth-Minor chinese 6’s & Mandators, Buffalo’s & Bedford TMs that I grew up on. I would love any one of these, and apart from the Highwayman & Mammoth Minor I did get to drive all the others myself in later years. I would ideally like 1 that was built to petrol regs, these would be harder to find though, I did go & look at a Buffalo last weekend but it was too far gone, & I am honest enough to admit I don’t have the skills or the money to tackle anything that rotten! But hopefully I can get 1 of any of the above sometime in the future, but I won’t care who it belonged to, I will paint it in the old Mobil colours, because that will bring back so many memories of such happy years for me If someone does the research on a wagon, & does it all original then fantastic, but if he wants to do it with his own name or a fisticious name then fantastic, to me it’s the fact that it has been restored at all for everyone to enjoy is the point we should celebrate. How many wagons just run for 1 company & are retired gracefully to sit in the corner of the garage for ever more? Not many I know, they are usually sold on to another firm, so to me I am the next owner, & it will carry on its life looking/doing what I want it to do
Regards
Chris
bigr250,
I appreciate where you are coming from. I can totally understand the frustration felt by some of you who pump time and money into a project only to have a ‘trye kicker’ (or ‘bolt counter’ in the truck model scene) to come along and start pointing out things that you may have or may not have got right. I imagine many people have held their tongue with difficulty a number of times.
I speak as someone who has had a total stranger check the bottom of the number plates on one of my 1:50 model lorries with a magnifying glass to see if I had included the dealer details (I kid not!). The guy didn’t get into debate over it, he just got up and walked off when he realised that I had. Fair enough. If he had wanted to discuss with me I would have been happy to do so, remaining pragmatic throughout, despite what I may have thought.
I personally wouldn’t have any issue with apporaching a restorer stood at the side of their prize, and open discussion whether or not it should have or should not have been in its original livery. As this thread proves, its a very pertinent talking point, and one which stimulates healthy debate…this can only be a positive thing for any movement.
On the other hand, I have enough tact and diplomacy not to stand their purposely picking fault with things, particularly with one or two individuals who have posted on her. There is a very fine line between nitpicking, and analytical debate that some folks just can’t seprate.
When I display models, I obviously welcome praise, but I am also prepared for criticism too. You have to be, otherwise no one will approach you, or show any interest…begging the question Why display in the first place?
Re: rivet counters: I bought my Albion in a state in August 1970, entered it for the London - Brighton run in May 1971 as a target for getting it on the road. Me and a couple of mates worked on it in a open yard through the winter, got it up and running and a coat of paint on, working on it right up 'til near midnight the night before the L-B. As we hadn’t time to complete the painting, I sploshed a coat of aluminium paint on the rear axle/springs to tidy it up pending painting it properly. Made it to Brighton, parked up on the seafront. A few people who knew the vehicle and what we’d been doing complimented me on our progress. Two guys came along, one looked underneath, turned to his mate and said “hmm - Woolworths”! I heard him, stopped him as he walked away, asked him politely whether him or his crony owned or had ever restored a vehicle to which they replied “no”. I suggested to them that in that case, and until they did that they should mind their own business and f*** off! Judging by their sheepish looks as they shuffled off, seemed to have the desired effect, certainly made me feel better anyway .
Bernard
albion1938:
Re: rivet counters: I bought my Albion in a state in August 1970, entered it for the London - Brighton run in May 1971 as a target for getting it on the road. Me and a couple of mates worked on it in a open yard through the winter, got it up and running and a coat of paint on, working on it right up 'til near midnight the night before the L-B. As we hadn’t time to complete the painting, I sploshed a coat of aluminium paint on the rear axle/springs to tidy it up pending painting it properly. Made it to Brighton, parked up on the seafront. A few people who knew the vehicle and what we’d been doing complimented me on our progress. Two guys came along, one looked underneath, turned to his mate and said “hmm - Woolworths”! I heard him, stopped him as he walked away, asked him politely whether him or his crony owned or had ever restored a vehicle to which they replied “no”. I suggested to them that in that case, and until they did that they should mind their own business and f*** off! Judging by their sheepish looks as they shuffled off, seemed to have the desired effect, certainly made me feel better anyway .
Bernard
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with these people having an opinion, even having quiet conversations between themselves away from the vehicle they’re citicising, but to openly ‘slag off’ the work of the people who have bothered to undertake such a task is simply rude!!! I like to think that I’m generally a very ‘good mannered’ person as I was brought up by my mum, but I like to face rudeness with rudeness, I don’t mean the kind of people who ask ‘leading questions’ about the validity of something on yout truck/bike/car, that can be a little irritating but it is acceptable.
But the type as mentioned above, “hmm - Woolworths”!! that kind of churlishness is simply wrong to me & telling him to ‘F’ off is totally justified & I’d love to have been a fly on that wall!!!
What about a haulier that no longer exists and none of their vehicles exist . Wouldn`t you be justified in restoring something same as what they operated, and painting it in their colours,if only to recreate what that company operated?
If someone does the research on a wagon, & does it all original then fantastic, but if he wants to do it with his own name or a fisticious name then fantastic, to me it’s the fact that it has been restored at all for everyone to enjoy is the point we should celebrate. How many wagons just run for 1 company & are retired gracefully to sit in the corner of the garage for ever more? Not many I know, they are usually sold on to another firm, so to me I am the next owner, & it will carry on its life looking/doing what I want it to do