TTX boy:
Im glad some people are seeing my point of view.
I know it’s not going to happen in the near future but we once sent kids down pits.
And there are plenty about we should still be sending down.
TTX boy:
I realise that people will have to do nights out that cant get home but we do that now, but good planning would help and you will always have driver that likes being away.
It’s not the drivers who like being away that will suffer if the hours are restricted, it’s the ones who don’t like being away who will suffer most.
TTX boy:
All i’m trying to get over is why cant we work a 40-50 hr working week for a desent wage instead of have to work 70+ hrs.
In reality we are working 2 weeks for 1 weeks wage !
Some of us have familys and wanna see our kids !
Why do you need the rules changing to do that instead of sorting out your job so it meets your social/family requirements?
TTX boy:
You can bet all these people that make these drivers laws dont work 70+hrs for £700
Probably because they chose a job which suits the lifestyle they wish to have, same thing everyone can do.
It’s like a disease in this country these days with people always wanting someone else to sort things out for them by the use of more rules and restrictions, whether that is the Government or whoever, rather than taking a bit of responsibility themselves.
ady1:
im totally against this,40 hrs a week is no good what so ever,all it will mean is the extra 40 hrs p.w pay i get now will be going in some agency bods pocket,stuff that,im quite happy to do 80 hrs a week[a fair bit,in actual fact a lot is in the bunk,not working anyway].
if folks want to do 40 hrs p.w fair enough,but the same goes if your happy do 80 hrs you should be left to do what you want
That’s the thing ady, as it stands at the moment with the regulations you can work how you wish to and so can people who don’t want to do as much as that. But they want rules putting in place to allow them to do what they can already do under the current system but will prevent you from doing what you currently enjoy.
Tomorrow I am starting at 05:00 and I will finish about 19:00. In that time I will have between 6 and 7 hours break and about an hour of other work. Limit the duty time to 12 hours and that easy day for good money comes to an end. Thursday I will do from about 06:00 to around 20:30 with even more time on break than on Wednesday. If the hours are limited to 12 hours duty I would have to actually work harder because those runs will finish.
TTX boy:
Our industry should be aiming for a 9 hrs max driving ,12hrs max duty per shift.
So would you would be happy to be out most nights or it just other drivers that shouldn’t be allowed to get home after a shift ?
Why should that happen?
Planners would need to get solutions to that in the same way that they have to work within the current rules
It’s a bit like saying that drivers have to spend nights out now because planners cannot plan for a 12 hour driving day in a 16 hour shift
I am think silly reverse logic here or being realistic?
Apart from what’s already been said on the subject I would have thought it fairly obvious that the shorter the allowed working day the harder it is to plan a trip that’s still profitable and plan for the driver to get back to base.
It’s easy to say the planners would have to plan for a shorter working day, but the fact is that in the real word they have to make the vehicles pay, so it’s fair to assume that the vehicles aren’t going to be running half empty just so the driver can get back to base in a shortened working day, hence more nights out for drivers or a change of job.
A maximum 12 hour shift would probably mean more hauliers going to the wall, especially small hauliers I would have thought.
Do you know what? I must be mad to go back up the road! It seems to be full of drivers who REALLY don’t want to be there!
If you don’t want to work long hours - don’t.
If you are scared you’ll get sacked for that - leave first.
I don’t particularly want to do 15 hour days - so if I think I can’t do it (safely), I’ll refuse occasionally. I don’t particularly want to spend nights out - but I don’t expect to be able to not work maximum hours AND get home every night. Do the job, or don’t do the job, but for ZB sake - stop whingeing about it!
My last thoughts on this matter as i sit here and shake my head.
Cant you guys see that we are working twice has many hours as a normal working person for the same amount of money,if you cant see that you must be blind !
If you had the choice of working 50hrs or 70hrs for the same money,what would you choose■■?
All i’m saying is that it must be better for all drivers to earn a good wage for less hours.
As for the argument that you only drive for 3 hrs a day the rest of the time i’m resting on my bunk at a rdc…your still at work.
Im not scared of hard work,ive been driving for nearly 25 yrs but i just want a better deal for all drivers.
For all the responsibility we have with the job,i.e,vehicle checks,tachograph laws,load safety ,etc etc,i think we deserve more.
TTX boy:
I dont agree !
I thought that we all want to work less hrs.
We already work more hrs than any other workers i can think of.
Our industry should be aiming for a 9 hrs max driving ,12hrs max duty per shift.
40 hrs min weekly rest,and i would scrap reductions!
Obviously wages would have to rise to pay for the reduced hrs but £10 per hr would give a living wage.
Drivers are working up to 70hrs per week,thats just crazy! Thats double a 35 hr working week most people work.
Who, in the REAL world, not a Dolly Parton song, do you know that works 35hrs per week?
Also, do away with reductions? That’s no good if you’re stuck in Southampton, or Calais or Spain and you just want to get on with earning money instead of twiddling your thumbs waiting for your break to be up.
The hours are 99% perfect, it’s just they gave the power to the employer not the employee meaning we get ■■■■ on too often. How often has it been ‘well drive, you’ve got a reducer left, make your way towards…’ That should be taken away from the employer, but then it’d make planning difficult.
I think if the industry had decent planners instead of stupid arrogant scrotes who’ve never drove a truck and think long distance is their house to work, and think Tilbury to Thamesport is only ‘round the corner’, then maybe - JUST MAYBE - the industry would improve.
TTX boy:
Im glad some people are seeing my point of view.
I know it’s not going to happen in the near future but we once sent kids down pits.
I realise that people will have to do nights out that cant get home but we do that now, but good planning would help and you will always have driver that likes being away.
All i’m trying to get over is why cant we work a 40-50 hr working week for a desent wage instead of have to work 70+ hrs.
In reality we are working 2 weeks for 1 weeks wage !
Some of us have familys and wanna see our kids !
You can bet all these people that make these drivers laws dont work 70+hrs for £700
im totally against this,40 hrs a week is no good what so ever,all it will mean is the extra 40 hrs p.w pay i get now will be going in some agency bods pocket,stuff that,im quite happy to do 80 hrs a week[a fair bit,in actual fact a lot is in the bunk,not working anyway].
if folks want to do 40 hrs p.w fair enough,but the same goes if your happy do 80 hrs you should be left to do what you want
Can’t say fairer than that, everyone has that choice, a couple of mates in the village have a job in a warehouse, they are running their own little section, packing and dispatching. One used to be self employed and the other was a pest control engineer, now both are happy on £6.80 per hour for 39 hours.
They are at it from 7.30 until they finish, never have a chance to sit down or go for a ■■■ when they want. I prefer the stop when you like, have a ■■■ when you like job.
waynedl:
The hours are 99% perfect, it’s just they gave the power to the employer not the employee meaning we get [zb] on too often. How often has it been ‘well drive, you’ve got a reducer left, make your way towards…’ That should be taken away from the employer, but then it’d make planning difficult.
I agree and that could happen with the word ‘driver’ put into many of the regs
It would mean the the employer would have to request/ask the driver to reduce or extend
waynedl:
The hours are 99% perfect, it’s just they gave the power to the employer not the employee meaning we get [zb] on too often. How often has it been ‘well drive, you’ve got a reducer left, make your way towards…’ That should be taken away from the employer, but then it’d make planning difficult.
I agree and that could happen with the word ‘driver’ put into many of the regs
It would mean the the employer would have to request/ask the driver to reduce or extend
But the regulations are not just for drivers, they are for road transport, so why should the driver get them weighted toward him rather than the way it is written at the moment.
As said above the regulations are pretty much spot on for drivers at the moment giving opportunity for both those who want to work more and those who don’t. The power is all with the driver as they are the ones on the road and it is therefore very easy to work the regulations to your advantage. In the 27 years I’ve been working under these rules I have always used them to work the way I want to and only to work how someone else wants me to if it suits me.
I started at 05:00 this morning and I have been on break for the last 50 minutes, having already had a 45 minute break earlier. I’ll finish about 19:00 this evening but I have only about 1 - 1.25 hours actual work left to do today. Limiting duty time would mean runs like this couldn’t be done even though it is easy and not in the least tiring.
Everyone has a choice in how much they work but it seems some people want the rules changing so others could no longer work the way they want to but they still can.
TTX boy:
My last thoughts on this matter as i sit here and shake my head.
Cant you guys see that we are working twice has many hours as a normal working person for the same amount of money,if you cant see that you must be blind !
If you had the choice of working 50hrs or 70hrs for the same money,what would you choose■■?
If you think reducing the amount of hours will lead to a rise in wages then your head must button up the back.
It seems your argument is more about the money than the regulations and personally I don’t know anyone who is doing a job working 35 - 40 hours, that I could do, who is earning anywhere near what I did last year.
waynedl:
The hours are 99% perfect, it’s just they gave the power to the employer not the employee meaning we get [zb] on too often. How often has it been ‘well drive, you’ve got a reducer left, make your way towards…’ That should be taken away from the employer, but then it’d make planning difficult.
ROG:
I agree and that could happen with the word ‘driver’ put into many of the regs
It would mean the the employer would have to request/ask the driver to reduce or extend
Coffeeholic:
But the regulations are not just for drivers, they are for road transport, so why should the driver get them weighted toward him rather than the way it is written at the moment.
At the moment the regs are written in a way that can often lead to confict between driver and employers.
Employers having a legal right to do this or that
Drivers having a safety right to do this or that
As you have often said - if the employer is determined for a the driver to reduce rest times then they have the upper hand in saying - do what we want or walk
With the regs being legally in favour of a driver making the final decision then that will force the employers to consult with the driver instead of trying to impose something on them
At present employers do not say to a driver - do 11 hours driving because they know it is illegal to even ask that so no conflict is forthcoming but if an employer says that the driver is to restart in 9 hours then the confict can start
Why have the means in place to cause conflict when there is an easy solution not to?
TTX boy:
My last thoughts on this matter as i sit here and shake my head.
Cant you guys see that we are working twice has many hours as a normal working person for the same amount of money,if you cant see that you must be blind !
If you had the choice of working 50hrs or 70hrs for the same money,what would you choose■■?
All i’m saying is that it must be better for all drivers to earn a good wage for less hours.
As for the argument that you only drive for 3 hrs a day the rest of the time i’m resting on my bunk at a rdc…your still at work.
Im not scared of hard work,ive been driving for nearly 25 yrs but i just want a better deal for all drivers.
For all the responsibility we have with the job,i.e,vehicle checks,tachograph laws,load safety ,etc etc,i think we deserve more.
Good points but probably never going to happen. Drivers need to find a job that suits social/home life that they want. Might take a bit of time though.
I don’t want monster hours anymore , I don’t want stop outs anymore , I want home everyday , I want a decent wage for it too.
Yep ok so I do night trunksmost will say nights are for robbers and prostitutes lol) but you won’t see my weekly hours go over 46 I can guarantee it(my wtd is always around 45-46 and less sometimes). It’s salaried so the hours are not important at all. I,m home every day and see my family in the morning and for around 6 hours in the afternoon and early evening and then go working again. Roads are quiet and pretty stress free.
Ok so here is the bit everyone probably wants to know. Yep some people on here who are happy to talk money take home around £110 a week more than me, but for that extra bit of money they are working around 35 -38 hours more than me. If you look at it like that they must be bonkers But I,m not going to knock them, thats their choice.
I could do a 12 hr six shift and be over what they get but only twice a month. But I,m happy with the take home pay and hours that I do.Maybe done 3 OT shifts in the last 3 yrs
Key here is find a job that suits , albeit that is going to be difficult atm.
It should be 11 hours off every day IMO, 9 hours simply isn’t enough to get washed, fed, to unwind, to sleep, then to have time for coffee, a wash and a dump before doing another 15 hours.
I certainly wouldn’t be happy to take my kids on an aeroplane being piloted by somebody who works the type of hours we are permitted to.
I have started something here havent I all I wanted to know was can you refuse to return to work nine hours after your last shift? ie say you finish at 2000 and your employer wants you back in for 0500.
yorkshiredave:
I have started something here havent I all I wanted to know was can you refuse to return to work nine hours after your last shift? ie say you finish at 2000 and your employer wants you back in for 0500.
You can refuse but there may be consequences and also a very strong likelyhood of conflict between you and your boss because of the current way that the rules are written
yorkshiredave:
I have started something here havent I all I wanted to know was can you refuse to return to work nine hours after your last shift? ie say you finish at 2000 and your employer wants you back in for 0500.
Yes, you are within your rights to refuse to do it, but then on the other hand he is within his rights to sack you if you don’t.
ROG:
At the moment the regs are written in a way that can often lead to confict between driver and employers.
Employers having a legal right to do this or that
Drivers having a safety right to do this or that
As you have often said - if the employer is determined for a the driver to reduce rest times then they have the upper hand in saying - do what we want or walk
With the regs being legally in favour of a driver making the final decision then that will force the employers to consult with the driver instead of trying to impose something on them
At present employers do not say to a driver - do 11 hours driving because they know it is illegal to even ask that so no conflict is forthcoming but if an employer says that the driver is to restart in 9 hours then the confict can start
Terrible example. It is not legal to extend to 11 hours driving. It is legal to reduce to 9 hours daily rest so the comparison is flawed.
ROG:
Why have the means in place to cause conflict when there is an easy solution not to?
How exactly would that remove the conflict? If it were the way you suggest and the company ask the driver to reduce, and he says no, there is still going to be conflict. If the driver always refuses the company could still get rid of him as being unsuitable for the job. Doesn’t matter if the driver has the legal right to refuse as suitability for the job and legality aren’t connected.
Including the word driver in the regulations would change nothing. A job requires the use of reduced daily rest periods, a driver will not do them whenever he is asked so the company decide he is therefore not suitable for the job and there’s the door. They then employ somebody who has the legal right to refuse to reduce, just like the first driver, but doesn’t do so and is therefore more suitable for the job in the company’s eyes. Although under your system everyone’s a winner and happy. Driver 1 is happy because he could legally say no and exercised that right on a regular basis. The company is happy because they replaced an unsuitable driver with a suitable one and Driver 2 is happy because he has a job after being unemployed for a while.
Yes, basically if you are a lorry driver then you are at the bottom of the food chain and you have to do whatever you are told by everybody and subject yourself to worse conditions than ■■■■■ slave cotton pickers in Alabama 150 years ago.
But then like they say, if you can’t take a joke then you shouldn’t have signed up,
TTX boy:
My last thoughts on this matter as i sit here and shake my head.
Cant you guys see that we are working twice has many hours as a normal working person for the same amount of money,if you cant see that you must be blind !
If you had the choice of working 50hrs or 70hrs for the same money,what would you choose■■?
All i’m saying is that it must be better for all drivers to earn a good wage for less hours.
As for the argument that you only drive for 3 hrs a day the rest of the time i’m resting on my bunk at a rdc…your still at work.
Im not scared of hard work,ive been driving for nearly 25 yrs but i just want a better deal for all drivers.
For all the responsibility we have with the job,i.e,vehicle checks,tachograph laws,load safety ,etc etc,i think we deserve more.
but how many folks have jobs where there paid to sleep,stroll round the local town doing there bills,shopping,lie out on grass banks sun bathing for hour after hour,go for a jog,go to the local gym,i do all of those and im paid for it,brother only does 37.5 hrs a week,he works them,if he moves off the m/c they want to know why,he has to pay his bills in his own time,he has to go to the gym in his own time etc,etc.
as i say i know vwery few jobs where your paid to sleep
But I,m not going to knock them, thats their choice.