BTW can i just say that Euro lex have charged trucknet £100 for the extra bandwidth accessing this 561/2006 regs. 
Mike-C:
i hadn’t banked on what Tachograph said. Be back when i checked !!
Taschograph didn’t say anything, he just quoted the relevant law, which is…
- Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
Mike-C:
Thats a question for you guys who reckon you can’t take 45 in the cab .
Just to clarify this I don’t think anyone is saying that you can’t take a regular weekly rest period in a vehicle whilst away from base, we’re saying that technically it’s not legal but you’d never get done for it … well not until some idiot in Europe decides to wreak havoc on the trucking community anyway 
tachograph:
Mike-C:
Thats a question for you guys who reckon you can’t take 45 in the cab .
Just to clarify this I don’t think anyone is saying that you can’t take a regular weekly rest period in a vehicle whilst away from base, we’re saying that technically it’s not legal but you’d never get done for it … well not until some idiot in Europe decides to wreak havoc on the trucking community anyway
I was reading some stuff yesterday, can’t find the link to it now…it was about some (AETR) proposals, and they all ■■■■ in the same pot. It was along the lines of …to reflect the trend in the use of sleeper cabs…reg (such and such) should be changed to (specifically mention its allowed). Probably won’t be long before they put us all out of our misery and specifically ‘allow’ us to do it. On the bright side if the transport side of things slacks off we’ve all got a budding career as lawyers. (or not !)
Harry Monk:
Where’s Coffeeholic when you need him?
I have been pointing this little fact out for a good few years. I think I was the first person on here to do so but nobody believed me at first, especially those who cannot read, or if they can, cannot comprehend what they are reading. I got bored pointing it out, because it actually doesn’t matter as no one seems to be enforcing it. I did email the French and Spanish authorities suggesting, given the high fines they love to pull out their ■■■, enforcing it would be a good way to reduce their respective countries debts but have heard nothing back. I might email again. 
It couldn’t be any clearer. By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot. If the regulations just said weekly rest periods may be taken in a vehicle then no problem but by specifically mentioning reduced weekly rest periods then that is the only kind of weekly rest that can, to the letter of the law, be taken in a vehicle. If the intention was to allow a regular weekly rest to be taken in a vehicle, all weekly rests in other words, then the wording would only have needed to be something like:
8. Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
Or
8. Where a driver chooses to do this, rest periods may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.
Regarding the daily rest period and a reduced weekly rest period thing mentioned that doesn’t work either. You extended a daily rest period into a weekly rest, i.e. it becomes a weekly rest period with the daily element just there to limit the amount of duty time in 24 hours as any daily rest period does. Following the logic that you have a daily rest and a weekly rest to get a regular weekly rest would require a minimum of 54 or 56 hours to get ‘a 45’ in, anyone taking just 45 hours would never be getting a regular weekly rest.
The way it is worded means while you can take a daily rest in the vehicle, reduced or otherwise, while parked at your base you cannot take a weekly rest of any type in the vehicle at base, only reduced away from base is mentioned as being allowed. Maybe they assumed when the vehicle is at base the driver is at home but that isn’t the case, especially these days with drivers often working from a base many miles from where they live for several weeks at a time before heading home.
Coffeeholic:
Harry Monk:
Where’s Coffeeholic when you need him?I have been pointing this little fact out for a good few years. I think I was the first person on here to do so but nobody believed me at first, especially those who cannot read, or if they can, cannot comprehend what they are reading. I got bored pointing it out, because it actually doesn’t matter as no one seems to be enforcing it. I did email the French and Spanish authorities suggesting, given the high fines they love to pull out their ■■■, enforcing it would be a good way to reduce their respective countries debts but have heard nothing back. I might email again.
It couldn’t be any clearer. By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot. If the regulations just said weekly rest periods may be taken in a vehicle then no problem but by specifically mentioning reduced weekly rest periods then that is the only kind of weekly rest that can, to the letter of the law, be taken in a vehicle. If the intention was to allow a regular weekly rest to be taken in a vehicle, all weekly rests in other words, then the wording would only have needed to be something like:
8. Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.Or
8. Where a driver chooses to do this, rest periods may be taken in a
vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
driver and the vehicle is stationary.Regarding the daily rest period and a reduced weekly rest period thing mentioned that doesn’t work either. You extended a daily rest period into a weekly rest, i.e. it becomes a weekly rest period with the daily element just there to limit the amount of duty time in 24 hours as any daily rest period does. Following the logic that you have a daily rest and a weekly rest to get a regular weekly rest would require a minimum of 54 or 56 hours to get ‘a 45’ in, anyone taking just 45 hours would never be getting a regular weekly rest.
The way it is worded means while you can take a daily rest in the vehicle, reduced or otherwise, while parked at your base you cannot take a weekly rest of any type in the vehicle at base, only reduced away from base is mentioned as being allowed. Maybe they assumed when the vehicle is at base the driver is at home but that isn’t the case, especially these days with drivers often working from a base many miles from where they live for several weeks at a time before heading home.
Dont do this to me, my head is going to go pop… does that mean if i stop work on Friday at 5pm - the first 9 hours are for my daily rest and then i need another 45 for my regular weekly rest …
Jenson Button:
Dont do this to me, my head is going to go pop… does that mean if i stop work on Friday at 5pm - the first 9 hours are for my daily rest and then i need another 45 for my regular weekly rest …
No it doesn’t mean that, your daily rest period is extended to make a weekly rest period.
The daily rest period of the last shift before a weekly rest period becomes a part of the weekly rest period.
If you finish the last shift at 17:00 Friday and have a 9 hour reduced daily rest period that 9 hours becomes part of the weekly rest period, so you would need a further 36 hours rest to make up the 45 hours weekly rest period.
tachograph:
Jenson Button:
Dont do this to me, my head is going to go pop… does that mean if i stop work on Friday at 5pm - the first 9 hours are for my daily rest and then i need another 45 for my regular weekly rest …No it doesn’t mean that, your daily rest period is extended to make a weekly rest period.
The daily rest period of the last shift before a weekly rest period becomes a part of the weekly rest period.
If you finish the last shift at 17:00 Friday and have a 9 hour reduced daily rest period that 9 hours becomes part of the weekly rest period, so you would need a further 36 hours rest to make up the 45 hours weekly rest period.
thank god for that !
Coffeeholic:
It couldn’t be any clearer. By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot. If the regulations just said weekly rest periods may be taken in a vehicle then no problem but by specifically mentioning reduced weekly rest periods then that is the only kind of weekly rest that can, to the letter of the law, be taken in a vehicle.
Exactly.
If the law said…
9.6. A driver may have either sausages or bacon for breakfast
Then he couldn’t have cornflakes.
So if my base is my home I can’t sleep in my own bed? And would have to go down to a hotel for a kip, I feel a headache coming on, I think a large calver will cure it.
Ossie
Coffeeholic:
It couldn’t be any clearer.
You say that like its a fact. Its not, its your opinion.
If was such a clear fact then we wouldn’t be having the discussion. Also the authorities would be looking to assert this fact (if it was true) as all of them trump the “a tired driver is a danger” card. None of them have done this to date. And we’re still having the discussion. So its only a clear fact in your own head.
I’ll tell you what is a fact though, no one has ever bee prosecuted for taking a 45 hour rest in a cab either at home/base or out on the road.
Coffeeholic:
By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot.
Right gotcha. It mentions no where a break can be taken in one. So we all better get out our cabs as it doesn’t say so?
Harry Monk:
If the law said…9.6. A driver may have either sausages or bacon for breakfast
Then he couldn’t have cornflakes.
It says along the lines of is free to spend his disposable time as he wishes ?
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
It couldn’t be any clearer.You say that like its a fact. Its not, its your opinion.
If was such a clear fact then we wouldn’t be having the discussion. Also the authorities would be looking to assert this fact (if it was true) as all of them trump the “a tired driver is a danger” card. None of them have done this to date. And we’re still having the discussion. So its only a clear fact in your own head.
I’ll tell you what is a fact though, no one has ever bee prosecuted for taking a 45 hour rest in a cab either at home/base or out on the road.Coffeeholic:
By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot.Right gotcha. It mentions no where a break can be taken in one. So we all better get out our cabs as it doesn’t say so?
It says knowhere that a break must be taken in or out of a vehicle, however it does mention taking a rest period in a vehicle and that you are allowed to take a daily rest or a reduced weekly rest. It doesn’t say that you can take a full or extended weekly rest period
Coffeeholic:
Harry Monk:
Where’s Coffeeholic when you need him?I have been pointing this little fact out for a good few years. I think I was the first person on here to do so but nobody believed me at first, especially those who cannot read, or if they can, cannot comprehend what they are reading. I got bored pointing it out, because it actually doesn’t matter as no one seems to be enforcing it. I did email the French and Spanish authorities suggesting, given the high fines they love to pull out their ■■■, enforcing it would be a good way to reduce their respective countries debts but have heard nothing back. I might email again.
Can anyone remember when the legislation changed?
Wheel Nut and TruckNet UK can
Article 8.7 of EC 3820/85 says; The daily rest period may be taken in a vehicle, as long as it is fitted with a bunk and is stationary.
Whilst it is true that the Regulation doesn’t specifically say you cannot take weekly rest in a vehicle, it doesn’t say that you can. The fact that it mentions daily rest being taken in a vehicle leads to the conclusion that it should say that you can take weekly rest in a vehicle too.The ‘new’ legislation was brought in to clarify the rules and definitions (OK attempt to
). In EC 561/2006 Article 8.8 deals with where rest may be taken, it says; 8. Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each driver and the vehicle is stationary.
In Summary; from April 11th you will, if you choose, be able to take daily and reduced weekly rest periods (away from base) in a vehicle with suitable sleeping facilities for each driver.
EC 3820/85 was a little vague in when and where you could take a compensated rest period
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
It couldn’t be any clearer.
You say that like its a fact. Its not, its your opinion.
[/quote]
It’s a fact to the letter of the regulations as they are written.
Mike-C:
I’ll tell you what is a fact though, no one has ever bee prosecuted for taking a 45 hour rest in a cab either at home/base or out on the road.
As far as we know.
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot.Right gotcha. It mentions no where a break can be taken in one. So we all better get out our cabs as it doesn’t say so?
[/quote]
Your proving the point here. Because the regulations don’t define any restrictions on where a break can be taken then all breaks can be taken in or out of the vehicle. By defining which rest periods can be taken in a vehicle therefore only those rest periods can be.
I have read this thread with interest.
I don’t think any of us actually know what would happen because, as far as any of us are aware no prosecution has ever been attempted. It is therefore, extremely difficult to say for sure if a prosecution would be successful for doing something that isn’t mentioned specifically as being against the law. I feel that drivers probably would be done for the 45 rest in unit, if the powers that be thought it would stick …I don’t think it would TBH… as the point is that you take your rest and you are still freely able to dispose of your time.
This is a grey area, and I suspect that what has gone before will remain until such time as the law is made clearer, or until a serious incident of some sort occurs where the authorities decide to poke their noses in further.
I think the point is that there are many laws and regulations in all sorts of things that aren’t always clear cut and are open to some degree of interpretation. For example using ‘reasonable force’ to protect your property.
It is a shame that there isn’t a specific ruling on this to prevent drivers having that small doubt should they be taking 45s regularly in the unit.
I cannot see how any sort of incident would occur where a driver took more rest
It would be interesting if another EU country tried to charge a driver for taking a full weekly rest in their vehicle - well, the infringement would be for insufficient rest - taking a reduced instead of a full weekly rest even though the actual rest time was 45+
Has that already happened? - does anybody know?
Perhaps all the EU states regard that rule as silly and ignore it …
Coffeeholic:
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
It couldn’t be any clearer.You say that like its a fact. Its not, its your opinion.
It’s a fact to the letter of the regulations as they are written.
Mike-C:
I’ll tell you what is a fact though, no one has ever bee prosecuted for taking a 45 hour rest in a cab either at home/base or out on the road.
As far as we know.
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
By specifying which type of rest may be taken in a vehicle any not mentioned therefore cannot.Right gotcha. It mentions no where a break can be taken in one. So we all better get out our cabs as it doesn’t say so?
[/quote]
Your proving the point here. Because the regulations don’t define any restrictions on where a break can be taken then all breaks can be taken in or out of the vehicle. By defining which rest periods can be taken in a vehicle therefore only those rest periods can be.
[/quote]
Well i will take your word for it, but i would’t say its clear. Its confusing at best, to me anyway !!
So you can not take a full 45 hour rest in the cab but you take a 44 hour and 59 minutes reduced rest in cab