hi, im going to be taking my training in december with red rose (stoneclough, bolton) has any one else trained with them do u recommend? thanks
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bolton trucker:
im going to be taking my training in december with red rose (stoneclough, bolton) has any one else trained with them do u recommend?
They are on the list - RED ROSE
THE DRIVER SHORTAGE IS AN ADVERTISING MYTH - Generally more drivers than jobs in the UK
However, many newbies on this site have recently secured permanent full time employment
Forum with some useful stuff and Forum for questions on drivers hours
cheers rog.
I took 6 attempts to pass Class C with Red Rose.Soon gets expensive.I felt that I wasn’t managed very well.When I failed a test I would ask “What should I do know?” and the response was usually “It’s up to you”.Well actually it’s not up to me ,with a big outfit like Red Rose I expect professional advice and I did not get any from them.As far as I am concerned I am paying for more than a few hours sat in a truck,I expected to be given advice and tutoring specific to me and it did not happen.Everyone has different needs and they failed to recognise that.I have heard good things about Truk Training in Bolton,their vehicles aren’t as new but that hardly matters.There was also ,strangely enough ,a guy based in Wigan advertising on ebay who seemed quite competitive if cost is an issue.He was mentioned on this site in the past few weeks.
thanks deathstar,
how many hours behind the wheel did u get?
Deathstar:
a guy based in Wigan advertising on ebay who seemed quite competitive if cost is an issue.He was mentioned on this site in the past few weeks
you are correct - CLICKY
bolton trucker:
how many hours behind the wheel did u get?
someone is asking the right questions
I had 16 hours plus test and a few 4 hours plus test.They shouldn’t have let me near the test centre until they were convinced that I’d pass.It’s far wiser too spend a little extra on training than give it to the DSA in test fees on the off chance that you’ll pass.I should have been told that,my course should have been tailored for me and it wasn’t and that is my grievance with Red Rose.Apart from that the trucks were fine,I got all the hours that I’d paid for,and I did not get messed around with cancellations etc.
anyone else train with red rose?
deathstar did u do the full week one to one or hourly lessons, just out of interest.
question to rog wt do u think is better to do hourly lessons or a weeks training then test?
cheers bolton trucker.
Deathstar:
They shouldn’t have let me near the test centre until they were convinced that I’d pass.
For an intensive course this is not possible as the test gets booked before you start the course and requires 3 to 4 working days to cancel - it would be unlikely to determine whether you are ready or not on day 1 of a 5 day course.
An assessment before you started the course would be the correct way to do things.
For the retests, the point you make could be valid.
Were all your tests failed on the same things or different ones 
- this has a large bearing on whether more training was necessary.
bolton trucker:
question to rog wt do u think is better to do hourly lessons or a weeks training then test?
Not many schools can cater for a few hours lessons each week as they have intensive courses over 5 to 10 day periods and fitting a trainee in for a few hours each week can be a logistical problem.
That is not say that it cannot be done - some on here have done it that way because it suited their way of learning better.
ROG:
Deathstar:
They shouldn’t have let me near the test centre until they were convinced that I’d pass.An assessment before you started the course would be the correct way to do things.
I have to agree with Deathstar on that point, however it can be tricky to make a judgement about a candidate so early in a course, hence ROG’s great point about an assessment.
IMHO, a proper pre-course driving assessment should be conducted for all candidates and the candidate should be given a reasonable estimate, no matter whether it hurts his/her feelings. I reckon it’s far more important to be truthful with people right from the start.
If somebody were to ask for an average, I’d say that a driver upgrading from Cat “B” to Cat “C” is probably looking at needing an average of 24 contact hours with the instructor. (There are exceptions, that’s why I mentioned an average. 
)
Exceptions.
A driver who has driven 7.5t (C1) for some time and demonstrates competence in the larger vehicle on assessment. (Possibly.)
A driver on 1:1 tuition. (Possibly.)
A driver who has worked as a fitter and is used to shuffling vehicles around in off-road situations in a yard. (Possibly.)
There are others.
C’mon you other instructors/driver trainers; from your experience, what would you say is a reasonable average for tuition hours for progression from “B” to “C”?
I would say most of my C courses were 2 to 1 over 5 days with tests on day 5 - 8am to 5pm APPROX
Basically, if you pass first time, you will be full of praise for your instructors and if you don’t then rightly or wrongly you will criticize them.I still maintain that you are not just paying to be sat in a truck for four hours at a time ,you are also paying for their experience and guidance when things go wrong.Whilst the logistics of this may be difficult at times, they are the professionals and should be equipped to give the best advice and encouragement possible.My experiences can not be unique as everybody has different learning capabilities.They do sell a service,they will provide a doctor for a medical,give you practice for theory tests and assist with licence applications so I do not feel it unreasonable to expect professional guidance right through until I pass the test.Given that they offer plenty of other types of training for the transport industry,HIAB,ADR and C+E you would think they would want to keep the customers feeling special so you come back for more business but that does not seem to be the case.They did not live up to my expectations,whether or not my expectations were realistic or not is a matter of opinion.
a proper pre-course driving assessment should be conducted
it would be unlikely to determine whether you are ready or not on day 1
Sorry, I don’t get it. Apparently an assessment should be carried out to determine how long someone will need. And yet (2nd quote) after the 1st day of training we still can’t tell if the driver will be ready.
So let’s cut to the chase. Learners want to do the minimum amount of time and spend as little cash as possible. It’s close on impossible to know how long someone will need after a typical 1 hour assessment. All that can be determined is attitude, confidence and the difference between current performance and test standard. Having done all that, an experienced instructor can have an educated guess at duration required. It is not possible to judge learning speed, information retention ability, nerves on test in the first hour.
So I tend to go for the politically incorrect “one size fits all” on the principle that it fits 95 % and with the willing admission that it will fit some more comfortably than others.
I would say most of my C courses were 2 to 1 over 5 days with tests on day 5 - 8am to 5pm APPROX
That’s fine. Now take the breaks out, divide by 2 and see what the answer is. I regularly train from B to C on 14 hours + test. How long is considered “normal” will depend on several factors:
Underlying ability of trainee
Suitability of truck
The location of the test centre/ training area
Quality of instruction
Standard of administration (not messing cancelling etc)
A degree of luck in handling nerves on the day.Anyone with qualms as to whether the school, instructor, truck, area etc will suit them should insist on an assessment drive. Not for a so-called assessment but for a trial. This will tell them how they feel and whether they wish to continue the process with that establishment. As mentioned above, I believe the assessment is for peace of mind - not to determine the proposed length of training. There are exceptions e.g someone with experience with larger vehicles may be able to trim a little off the course and save a bit. Someone else who is big enough to acknowledge they are not quick to absorb fresh information may well do better with a little extra training.
wt do u think is better to do hourly lessons or a weeks training then test?
Most folk do best on an intensive course as long as they don’t try working it around shifts and end up knackered. Slower learners should always go for the one session a week and then go for test when ready. No-one wants people going for test to fail.
And BTW, I’ve heard good reports about Red Rose. But there will always be horror stories about any trainer. At the end of the day, the trainee is the customer and must make the best decision they can based on the information available. 
Peter Smythe:
Sorry, I don’t get it. Apparently an assessment should be carried out to determine how long someone will need. And yet (2nd quote) after the 1st day of training we still can’t tell if the driver will be ready.
Asessment to determine length of coure to which the trainee should be ready - lets say 7 days
Day 1 of a 5 day course (but really needing 7 days) the trainee might be ready
I should have made my thinking clearer Peter
cheers peter
Asessment to determine length of coure to which the trainee should be ready - lets say 7 days
Day 1 of a 5 day course (but really needing 7 days) the trainee might be ready
Still don’t get the point. Is it only me? 
Peter Smythe:
Asessment to determine length of coure to which the trainee should be ready - lets say 7 days
Day 1 of a 5 day course (but really needing 7 days) the trainee might be readyStill don’t get the point. Is it only me?
If an assessment determines that a trainee needs 7 days to be ready but one is not done and a 5 day course is booked then on day 1 of that course it is likely that they may not be ready for the day 5 test but there is always the possibility that they will.
… Most of those who have assessments still say i do not think ill need that long and then they try to save money … very few people have assesments these days. And wonder why they fail and then say i wish i had more time …
The averge person should be up to standard in 4 days training and test on day 5 …with … 2 learners in the cab 8am-4pm or 8am-5pm whilst they are watching they learning…
People need to work out the costs it is cheaper to learn to drive a truck than a car if you break down the daily rate your charged into an 8 hour day.
Most think and say but i drive a van or a 7.5 tonner i can drive … if that was the case why would they need any lessons in a truck …
Most on an lgv course if honest would say at the end of the first day WOW will i be ready in 5 days !!!
Answer YES you will if you take on board what you are taught …
Peter Smythe:
a proper pre-course driving assessment should be conducted
it would be unlikely to determine whether you are ready or not on day 1
Sorry, I don’t get it. Apparently an assessment should be carried out to determine how long someone will need. And yet (2nd quote) after the 1st day of training we still can’t tell if the driver will be ready.
Hi Peter, No wonder you don’t get it…
The two quotes you used are from two different people!!
I’d understand some confusion or mixed message if they were both from the same person.
The first quote should be:
dieseldave:
a proper pre-course driving assessment should be conducted
The second quote should be:
some bloke in Leicester:
it would be unlikely to determine whether you are ready or not on day 1
I did this so that you can check in ‘preview’ 
Peter Smythe:
So let’s cut to the chase. Learners want to do the minimum amount of time and spend as little cash as possible.
Fair comment, but do they always know what’s best for them?
Peter Smythe:
It’s close on impossible to know how long someone will need after a typical 1 hour assessment. All that can be determined is attitude, confidence and the difference between current performance and test standard. Having done all that, an experienced instructor can have an educated guess at duration required. It is not possible to judge learning speed, information retention ability, nerves on test in the first hour.
Fair comment again Peter, but I just happen to believe that a candidate should feel that the course is about them, so an individual assessment works on several levels.
Peter Smythe:
So I tend to go for the politically incorrect “one size fits all” on the principle that it fits 95 % and with the willing admission that it will fit some more comfortably than others.
IMHO that might leave a candidate thinking that they’re just a number. Painting things with a 6" paintbrush can have drawbacks… Using your figure, 5% of candidates might feel some disgruntlement. (Possibly.)
Peter Smythe:
ROG:
I would say most of my C courses were 2 to 1 over 5 days with tests on day 5 - 8am to 5pm APPROXThat’s fine. Now take the breaks out, divide by 2 and see what the answer is. I regularly train from B to C on 14 hours + test. How long is considered “normal” will depend on several factors:
Underlying ability of trainee
Suitability of truck
The location of the test centre/ training area
Quality of instruction
Standard of administration (not messing cancelling etc)
A degree of luck in handling nerves on the day.Anyone with qualms as to whether the school, instructor, truck, area etc will suit them should insist on an assessment drive. Not for a so-called assessment but for a trial. This will tell them how they feel and whether they wish to continue the process with that establishment. As mentioned above, I believe the assessment is for peace of mind - not to determine the proposed length of training. There are exceptions e.g someone with experience with larger vehicles may be able to trim a little off the course and save a bit. Someone else who is big enough to acknowledge they are not quick to absorb fresh information may well do better with a little extra training.
Agreed Peter, now I see your point about assessments. Leaving aside the semantics (assessment Vs. trial) I only mentioned one view of an assessment, which may have been misleading of me… Of course, I meant that an assessment should be viewed as a two-way thing in the way that you’ve mentioned. It seems that we’ve been using different words for the same thing!!
Peter Smythe:
bolton trucker:
wt do u think is better to do hourly lessons or a weeks training then test?Most folk do best on an intensive course as long as they don’t try working it around shifts and end up knackered. Slower learners should always go for the one session a week and then go for test when ready. No-one wants people going for test to fail.
Agreed.
Peter Smythe:
And BTW, I’ve heard good reports about Red Rose. But there will always be horror stories about any trainer.
Agreed again Peter. I’d also say that Red Rose do have a good reputation in the Greater Manchester area.
Peter Smythe:
At the end of the day, the trainee is the customer and must make the best decision they can based on the information available.
But now we seem to have a contradiction… With a one-size-fits-all policy, our guy goes home after making his initial enquiries and tells his wife and friends “the instructor said I’ll be ready for test on Friday” (or similar.)
IMHO, our guy hasn’t had very much info on which to base his decision.
On the other hand, our guy goes and has an assessment and gets told that he’ll be ready for test in 4 days. The guy takes it all in and turns out to be at test standard after three days. Will that training school tell him that he doesn’t need to come in for the last day and give him 25% of his money back… Somehow, I don’t think so. It seems that there are pros and cons to both systems, but it does nobody any harm to re-examine their procedures from time to time.