Just a quick one. I’m a freelance driver, clean class 2 with adr. Just upped my daily rate to £100 and £25 per night out.
The company I have been subbing to seem to think this rate is unreasonable.
Any thoughts? It’s not as if I’m a newbie, got 10 years experience.
I think your selling yourself short at that, I’m on £110 a day + bonuses employed and I think that’s ■■■■. Although I’m class1 no adr.
Depends how long a “day” is I suppose, if it’s 8 hours it’s an alright rate.
If it’s 15 you want to stick another £50 on as self employed / limited Co.
kyoung:
Just a quick one. I’m a freelance driver, clean class 2 with adr. Just upped my daily rate to £100 and £25 per night out.
The company I have been subbing to seem to think this rate is unreasonable.
Any thoughts? It’s not as if I’m a newbie, got 10 years experience.
If you’re doing 1 hr pey day, I’d tend to agree. If you’re doing 15 hrs per day then you’re a mug and need to tell them to ■■■■ off. Without key information such as how many hours you’re being expected to do for the rates you quote, your thread is pretty much pointless.
Here we go to pedants corner. Hrs worked could be as little as 4 but as much as 15. Hence the daily rate. The fact that you proffered your opinion (thank you) then told me the thread was pointless is a bit odd. By definition it isn’t.
On the days you do four hours is a great rate. On the days you do 15 hours then its not so good. WHat more can one say ?
You say you have just upped it and they don’t like it, how much have you put it up?
would suggest 4-9 hours its an excellent to ok rate over not so good!
kyoung:
Here we go to pedants corner. Hrs worked could be as little as 4 but as much as 15. Hence the daily rate. The fact that you proffered your opinion (thank you) then told me the thread was pointless is a bit odd. By definition it isn’t.
Why would you think it’s “pedants corner” ? It was a perfectly valid question as you failed to provide the details required in order for anyone to make any form of useful reply. As you have now provided said information then one can proffer a more informed reply. 
Personally I don’t think your current arrangement is suited to your work pattern. To me it screams out for you to be charging them on an hourly basis. One may argue that you’d be losing out substantially on one of the shorter days but that is easily worked around by implementing a ‘minumum 8 hrs’ clause in your contract with them. If they don’t have enough work for you to make it an 8hr day then that’s their problem to deal with.
Assuming you don’t reside in the arse end of nowhere and are reasonably close to motorway(s)/industrial areas then for class 2 ADR as s/e with your experience should be able to command £10/hr and time 1.5 overtime after 8hrs, maybe a bit less if you’re out in the sticks with very few haulage cos. around. You should be looking at minimum 25% more than what a PAYE driver would get for doing the same job, ideally more to counter for quiet periods when there’s no work.
It’s perhaps worth pointing out that on your current rates (whatever they are), you are likely working for less than national minimum wage if you do 15 hrs as £100/15 = £6.66 and the NMW is currently £6.50. 
There’s a strong likelihood that they’re only using you because you work out cheaper than if they actually employed you. 
I suppose the company can’t see any further than £100 for maybe only a four hour job. That’s their fault if they can’t plan for a second short job to fill out the day, or to swap their own drivers around so that the OP works for 8 or 9 hours. They have to decide does the load go today for £100 or does it wait until tomorrow or the next day? He is providing a mobile service for them, he can’t exactly go off to a second customer for the rest of the day.
kyoung:
Just a quick one. I’m a freelance driver, clean class 2 with adr. Just upped my daily rate to £100 and £25 per night out.
The company I have been subbing to seem to think this rate is unreasonable.
Any thoughts? It’s not as if I’m a newbie, got 10 years experience.
You said you have good days and bad days so tell us how many hours a week you do and how many days a week you work and then we can tell you if it’s good or bad.
Personally I’d charge by the hour with a minimum of 8hrs paid/shift. Would point out them that you still have you NI & Tax, PPE &etc and you have to charge enough to cover the days you don’t have work.
Just heard yet another haulier was on the radio saying they can’t get drivers, so don’t sell yourself short.
Just my personal opinion peoples’ circumstances are different.
kyoung:
Just a quick one. I’m a freelance driver, clean class 2 with adr. Just upped my daily rate to £100 and £25 per night out.
The company I have been subbing to seem to think this rate is unreasonable.
Any thoughts? It’s not as if I’m a newbie, got 10 years experience.
For 10hrs or more its less than I was charging almost a decade ago. In fact for 12hrs or more its crap for PAYE.
Remember that if an employer pays their drivers £8/hr it will cost them another 96p/hr holiday pay and an additional 88p/hr employers NI so the £8/hr is more like £10/hr. You want to be charging more than that to cover the fact you’re not guaranteed to be working every day and you’ve got to wait for your money.
You want to be on at least 30% more than the PAYE rate.
To give you an idea of how out of whack you are, for Class 1 in East Yorkshire which is hardly known as a well paying area the guy I work for pays me £10/hr on PAYE and bills me out at £15/hr. He has no shortage of work and is always ringing me asking if I know of anyone looking for a job. You could knock maybe £1-£2/hr off that £15 figure for class 2.
So based on the above, a 4hr day on Class 2 would be charged out at £52 and a 15hr day at £195. Say you do a weekly average of 50hrs you would be billing that out at £650/week or £130 a day average.
I think your response to him if I were you would be to tell him that if he doesn’t like it he can go and use an agency and by the way they’ll charge more, charge by the hour and are likely to have an 8hr minimum booking, something which you should. I would actually withdraw my services if they don’t agree to at least £120/day flat rate or to move to hourly with at least £11/£12 hr and 8hr minimum booking. I can guarantee you that once they’ve rung around a few agencies and got some quotes that they’ll be up for negotiating with you.
kyoung:
Just a quick one. I’m a freelance driver, clean class 2 with adr. Just upped my daily rate to £100 and £25 per night out.
The company I have been subbing to seem to think this rate is unreasonable.
Any thoughts? It’s not as if I’m a newbie, got 10 years experience.
Yes, my thoughts are that while Left Hand Down! has been his usual blunt self he has a point in what he is telling you. If you are freelance you have to consider stuff like holiday pay and any pension contributions that you’d gain if you were employed by a company. Charge them an hourly rate, and a minimum payment of eight hours regardless.
As for said rate, even on class 2 you’ve got to be looking at well north of £10ph when you take into account the above. Then you need to think about what you charge after eight hours - flat rate or a premium? If the company you’re working for now think £100 per day for a freelance driver is too much it’s natural to assume that they wouldn’t agree to various other terms. In that case leave them, there are plenty of other firms out there who can’t find enough drivers and so you hold to ace card in current conditions.
Olog Hai:
If the company you’re working for now think £100 per day for a freelance driver is too much it’s natural to assume that they wouldn’t agree to various other terms. In that case leave them, there are plenty of other firms out there who can’t find enough drivers and so you hold to ace card in current conditions.
Seconded. You can earn more than that working self employed for agencies which is no different to how you work now other than you’ll get paid the following week instead of having to wait weeks or months.
As a PAYE driver, I am not far off that for a basic guaranteed shift. £10 / hr * 8 hrs = £80, time + half after 8… Holiday pay etc…
I think you’re doing yourself an injustice and working too cheap, unless it’s a REALLY cushy job and nice short shifts.
Thanks fellers. Much appreciated. Sorry left hand down for the outburst. Was charging £432 per week for approximately 50. This was marginally better than I was getting on agency. (the recession apparently). Don’t want to price myself out of the market but very keen to bypass agencies for obvious reasons. Also I would rather not undercut anybody else in my position just looking for a reasonable rate for a reasonable days work.it now looks like the company in question have had a cracking deal till now so they can now pay full wack for agency drivers [WINKING FACE]
Thing to be mindful of and it touches on the point Olog Hai made, there is a real shortage of drivers, both companies and agencies are having a daily struggle to put bums on seats.
I know this due to the unsolicited phone calls I’ve received from places I’ve never even thought of approaching for work and the blind panic when I even mention thinking about taking a day off.
kyoung:
Thanks fellers. Much appreciated. Sorry left hand down for the outburst. Was charging £432 per week for approximately 50. This was marginally better than I was getting on agency. (the recession apparently). Don’t want to price myself out of the market but very keen to bypass agencies for obvious reasons. Also I would rather not undercut anybody else in my position just looking for a reasonable rate for a reasonable days work.it now looks like the company in question have had a cracking deal till now so they can now pay full wack for agency drivers [WINKING FACE]
Where is the company based? If you’re in ruralshire like arse end of Cornwall, mid wales, top of Scotland etc then I could perhaps understand that amount if there’s little or no other competition within miles but outside of ruralshire that’s a terrible rate for s/e. Having to fund your CPC and presumably keep your ADR up-to-date plus also printing off the myriad of articles online about the current driver shortages will all be good ammo to justify a significant rate increase. If they still refuse to budge then call their bluff and - as you say - let them see how they like the agencies charging £11-13hr basic and £16-18hr for any hours over 8, plus also getting some random driver in who could well be a thick ■■■■■ not have a clue what he’s doing and ■■■■ the job up.
The company is in runcorn. Turns out he has a class 1 tramper on agy that takes home just shy of £1000. Allegedly.
kyoung:
The company is in runcorn. Turns out he has a class 1 tramper on agy that takes home just shy of £1000. Allegedly.
You’re pricing yourself well short. WELL short. Tenner an hour, time 1.5 after 8, no problem for that area on class 2 ADR s/e. If they don’t like it, walk. Agencies screaming out for drivers all over and I bet there’s plenty of ADR work out of the docks. You won’t have much of a problem getting those rates out of agencies if you stick to your guns. Go in higher, they’ll tell you they can’t pay those rates, negotiate down to what you’re happy with. Remember that new companies open up new doors to cut out the agency once you get yourself known and then you can negotiate your own rates direct. Sounds like the company you’re at are one of these still stuck in the dark ages and think that there’s a queue of drivers waiting to take your place - a lot are finding out to their cost that the queue no longer exists and drivers are upping sticks en-mass to places that are prepared to pay a decent rate.
The tramper guy could well be doing a grand a week if he’s doing the hours and including his night out money in that, especially if he’s s/e or ltd himself and VAT rgd.