Well now If Alan mentioned Peter Smythe no less than 6 times that was mild realy But could that be because Alan was happy with the servce he got from the company ? and the Money he saved by going to Peter … 
who certainly seems to know his stuff and That did’ntt just come from Alan either did it read all the other post from past candidates who Peter has trained .
I for one have mentioned Paul the trainer who did his job and got me through the CE test a lot more than 6 times on this site and I didnt have a meal with him just a cup of tea before my test on test day 
I did it because i was more than happey with his service in fact I will be going back there to finnish the 21 hours left on my DCPC that the previous bad trainer was payed for in advance but he can keep the money ( he must nead it ) and I will pay again and WHY because I too was happy with a service provided … and I can only second what coffeeholic has just said .
Just to, maybe, clear up a couple of points. My previous post on this thread was to try and defend Tockwith as it’s important that a balanced view is given. I would be gutted if there was a negative post about my company and would be pleased to see another trainer offering some support. And that is all I did.
As for collusion - no chance! Yes there is the witty comment about discounted driver cpc - it aint happening!
Madbaz is, of course, welcome.
I have a meal at the Jug and Glass (which is the village pub we use for B+B for those from any distance) roughly once a week. And yes, I had a meal with Alan and his delightful wife whilst they were here. I fail to see what is wrong with that. I do anything within my power to make candidates comfortable, especially the evening before their driving test. And if it costs me a meal that’s absolutely fine.
Tockwith say, and I believe them, they have been providing quality training since 1971. I however have only been at it since 1973 so I’m a relative newcomer. (Wont mention the period 1970 - 1973 as a PSV instructor).
This thread is NOT a battle of the trainers. Alan made a comment in good faith. Tockwith have replied. I have sided with them. Up until their strange accusations being made, I would have hoped I could have called at their premises and sampled their coffee - and it’s a shame that it seems I may not be welcome.
BTW, maybe Tockwith would let me know the names of the 3 that they have trained CE that I previously trained on C. Not saying it’s impossible, I’m just curious.
I continue to state that I believe Tockwith is a quality trainer that, on this occasion, has possibly made an error. And it’s a bold man who says he has never made a mistake.
Pete 
Peter,
I must say you have put yourself across very well even though you must have felt annoyed by things said in this thread and I for one would not have judged you if you had taken a more aggressive stance, I admire your restraint. Its now down to the other party involved to make amends and show that they can be mature and responsible by admitting mistakes were made and apologise for the false accusations made.
Steve
Anyone who knows me will be well aware that suggestions of collusion or other malpractice are downright stupid and unthinkable.
I believe in providing an excellent service at a proper (not cheap) price and having a massive portfolio of very happy customers.
The mistake the guy at Tockwith has made is in questioning my integrity. But, as I say, it’s so daft it really doesn’t matter.
And I still hold Tockwith up as a quality provider that, on this occasion, has slipped up a little.
Pete
3 posts up was ‘allegedly’ made by Pete Smythe at 12.30am. I’m just wondering who stole the real Pete Smythe as I thought he had his cocoa and off to bed before 11 .
(It’s a joke… before any of you take it out of context)
Yorkshires on a different time zone Darl, now Lancashire, that knows all about the reet time
Peter Smythe:
Anyone who knows me will be well aware that suggestions of collusion or other malpractice are downright stupid and unthinkable.
+
The mistake the guy at Tockwith has made is in questioning my integrity. But, as I say, it’s so daft it really doesn’t matter.Pete
As a newbie on here who is hardly known, I am pleased that when Tockwith chose to also question MY integrity they accused me of colusion with such an established and respected forum member as Pete.
I have known him for a very short time but I am sure he is a man of honesty and intergrity.
I cannot bring myself to be as magnanimous as Pete, My dealings Tockwith Training both on and off this forum have left me with a much lower opinion of them than his.
Alan
First of all congrates of passing the C cat and as for the Trainer saying you will never pass the C+E Ignore him
If you put your mind to it you can acomplish anything
My ‘C’ (18tonn) trainer told me I’d never pass
pffft what do they really know anyway?
I passed C+E (44 tonn)first time
I sometimes feel that they want to smash your dreams so they can get more money out of you by lowering your confidence.
and if you passed the medical then I shouldn’t worry about awareness you wouldn’t even have gotten a provisional licence had they thought you hadn’t got enough awareness to do the job.
and remember we are all human no-one is 100% perfect. and no one is 100% perfect at driving!
chap I beileve in you go and pass that test N prove them wrong 
EDITED: oh I didn’t read ya entire post to the end (SORRY)I am so clad you got that shiney blue certificate Congratulations.
and well done its a fantastic feeling isn’t
Steed007:
and if you passed the medical then I shouldn’t worry about awareness you wouldn’t even have gotten a provisional licence had they thought you hadn’t got enough awareness to do the job.
I wouldn’t take the medical as an indication of anything. If you can walk in and back out of the room without falling over, can see the sight chart and your, or someone’s you’ve borrowed if you have concerns, urine doesn’t show diabetes then you’ve passed it.
got to admit that pretty well sums my medical up…
‘your still awake so you are not narcoleptic, anything else I should know about? In that case good luck with the training.’
I have not got involved in this thread but I feel I must have my say.
There is absolutely no doubt that Tockwith Training is a company that you would want to deal with. You dont train for 40 years without knowing everything there is to know about training people. I would have no hesitation about sending someone in their area to them.
The same obviously goes for Peter. He is no better or worse than Tockwith which makes him one to also consider.
Alan… You started this thread with good intentions but did you pass on an artic? I doubt you would have achieved the same result on Tockwith’s artic with the same amount of training. You also know that. Even Tockwith admitted that the W&D made it easier but also said that their philosophy was to use full size semi trailer artics. You cant compare the 2 vehicle types.
Overall Alan has been unfair in his critism of Tockwith. If he had failed 4 times with PST he would not have come on here with the same attitiude. Trust me Alan the difference betweem passing and failing is very small.
Well done for passing but in fairness the ink on your licence is not even dry and yet you have crucifed and damaged one of the most experienced companies in the UK. I would ask that you apologise to them publicly on here and admit that perhaps your driving on that day at that time was assessed correctly.
All talk of collusion with Pete is ridiculous but opinions were formed and you felt justified in expressing them in a most damaging way. You still have the chance to correct that if you want to be taken seriously on here.
Steed007:
My ‘C’ (18tonn) trainer told me I’d never pass
pffft what do they really know anyway?
I passed C+E (44 tonn)first time
I sometimes feel that they want to smash your dreams so they can get more money out of you by lowering your confidence.
This is the most idiotic comment I have seen on any thread. Trainers make more by you passing and recommending them than by retest fees. Try being a trainer and feeling worse than the candidate when they fail. Honest trainers feel the pain trust me.
Be lucky this week
Regardless of Alans posts, I feel that Tockwith have crucified themselves, on here at least, but from what I’ve seen and heard they are a good setup and trust me I researched them thoroughly, however some of Alan’s concerns kinda mirrored my own when I went for an assessment and I feel he is fully justified in airing them, however Tockwith have ABSOLUTELY no justification in trying to smear the proverbial on Peter without an ounce of proof. Hence they’ll not be getting any hard earned from me, I doubt that’ll make a difference to them , that is my personal choice, but I’ll not be dissuading anyone that I hear that wishes to train with them, hell I would even recommend them.
Peter has been drawn into this through no fault of his own, and I doubt very much that he needs defending from me I’m sure he can hold his own corner.
I feel that Tockwith should at least apologise to Peter publicly for their outrageous claims, as for Alan, I think maybe they should just agree to disagree, (sorry Alan but I think this maybe the best way forward 
).
The real battle shouldn’t be on here between training companies and /or their prospective candidates it should be against the scourge that is the brokers that masquerade as training companies, and that is a fight that that we can try to win!
the comments about peter and alan trying to damage tockwiths name were stupid,but i agree with lgv trainer,in that it would take more hours to learn in a full size artic that the op wasnt familiar with than it would in the drawbar that hed already done his class 2 in
LGVTrainer:
I have not got involved in this thread but I feel I must have my say.There is absolutely no doubt that Tockwith Training is a company that you would want to deal with. You dont train for 40 years without knowing everything there is to know about training people. I would have no hesitation about sending someone in their area to them.
The same obviously goes for Peter. He is no better or worse than Tockwith which makes him one to also consider.
Alan… You started this thread with good intentions but did you pass on an artic? I doubt you would have achieved the same result on Tockwith’s artic with the same amount of training. You also know that. Even Tockwith admitted that the W&D made it easier but also said that their philosophy was to use full size semi trailer artics. You cant compare the 2 vehicle types.
Overall Alan has been unfair in his critism of Tockwith. If he had failed 4 times with PST he would not have come on here with the same attitiude. Trust me Alan the difference betweem passing and failing is very small.
Well done for passing but in fairness the ink on your licence is not even dry and yet you have crucifed and damaged one of the most experienced companies in the UK. I would ask that you apologise to them publicly on here and admit that perhaps your driving on that day at that time was assessed correctly.
All talk of collusion with Pete is ridiculous but opinions were formed and you felt justified in expressing them in a most damaging way. You still have the chance to correct that if you want to be taken seriously on here.
Steed007:
My ‘C’ (18tonn) trainer told me I’d never pass
pffft what do they really know anyway?
I passed C+E (44 tonn)first time
I sometimes feel that they want to smash your dreams so they can get more money out of you by lowering your confidence.This is the most idiotic comment I have seen on any thread. Trainers make more by you passing and recommending them than by retest fees. Try being a trainer and feeling worse than the candidate when they fail. Honest trainers feel the pain trust me.
Be lucky this week
Unfortunately your support for Tockwith Training doesn’t bode well with me, basically as a training school they were approached, and paid for a fair assessment, Alan didn’t get that, he got a knock back or a verbal kick in the teeth. It is Alan’s decision which school he trains with and he gave Tockwith the benefit of the doubt, maybe he felt more secure in an artic, Peter didn’t have one available, for all you know, Peter may have recommended Tockwith.
Your criticism of the type of lorry lies with the European Union, they deemed an artic unit with a semi trailer was exactly the same as a 12 tonne rigid with a caravan hung behind it. Alan had a class C licence, he wanted a C+E, he had the resources to pay for it, but Tockwith guessed he was a silly old duffer and thought they could rip him.
Alan has been in business a long time as a negotiator and has probably dealt with the upper echelon of management. Much of the disgust shown on this site and others is about training companies trying to shaft up and coming drivers out of their hard earned savings. You have been at the end of the barrel often enough, maybe you need to learn how to duck my duck!
You make it worse by suggesting that it makes a difference because his licence is barely dry. That doesn’t matter, he didn’t have a licence 4 weeks ago, now he has an additional two classes and an initial CPC on the cards. Neither of those due to Tockwith Training and are due to Peter Smythe.
At least this has made a decision for me. I quite fancy taking old dears to Skegness or Skipton in the summer, for this I need a D licence, you have helped me narrow my choice down to just one provider, Peter Smythe does PCV D.
I am not sure whether you do PCV D, Tockwith Training do, however I will recommend PSTT to my LGV friends before I recommend you.
You may call it collusion, you may call it customer savvy, whatever you call it, just remember the internet has grown teeth and customers are not going to be shafted anymore.
I’ve watched this topic with interest, and whilst I cast no doubt on Alan or Tockwith, there’s one thing that makes me wonder about it.
Alan has described the assessment he had at Tockwith, but it wouldn’t be fair of me to comment on that at this time because Tockwith hasn’t commented on it yet.
It would clearly be unfair of me to comment or offer an opinion after only reading one side of the story, so…
I have a question for Tockwith… How accurate is Alan’s written recollection of the assessor’s comments at the start of his assessment please?
There’s an opportunity to discuss my question, otherwise folk might start drawing their own conclusions.
dieseldave:
I’ve watched this topic with interest, and whilst I cast no doubt on Alan or Tockwith, there’s one thing that makes me wonder about it.Alan has described the assessment he had at Tockwith, but it wouldn’t be fair of me to comment on that at this time because Tockwith hasn’t commented on it yet.
It would clearly be unfair of me to comment or offer an opinion after only reading one side of the story, so…I have a question for Tockwith… How accurate is Alan’s written recollection of the assessor’s comments at the start of his assessment please?
There’s an opportunity to discuss my question, otherwise folk might start drawing their own conclusions.
Dave. I think the conclusions were already drawn after reading this post yesterday, you are much too polite to be a moderator…
You may also be interested in the comment about petrol tankers, every driver is allowed a dream, and doesn’t need a training school to shatter it 
Tockwith Training:
I would like to thank all the participants in this thread, the vast majority have made sensible replies.I have looked up your assessment document on our system and can confirm you visited us on the 8/2/2012 for an assessment on our FH13 C+E vehicle. I see that you travelled from your home in Durham and were wishing to drive articulated petrol tankers in the area. You mentioned it took you three times to pass your category C test, which you passed with Peter Smyth. It also mentions that you had experience with a caravan, which I imagine would make reversing Peter’s drawbar truck quite easy for you compared to our full sized artic.
Having chatted with the owner of the company regarding Alan we feel that the way he has described our conduct in his first post is quite missleading. The instructor would ask his age but only mentioned that it would be less easy for him to learn, never was it mentioned that he would be unlikely to ‘make the grade’, how could we say that, at this point we have not seen him drive! Also he suggests he almost had to perswade us to take him out in the vehicle and that we might cancel it part way through, this was not the case, we would only have got Alan out of driving seat if we felt he was not safe and it was not suggested it may only take a few minutes. So where these comments have come from seems bizarre. One thing I can’t understand is why if Alan passed his category C test with Peter Smyth didn’t he go back to them for C+E? Instead he came to us and has written incorrect quotes on this website which prospective customers will read, I can only assume to hurt our reputation. Because Alan went back to his original provider to pass his C+E test I’m starting to wonder if we have been to subject of some sort of collusion to smear our name on this site, which Peter Smyth perhaps does very well out of, but none of this I can prove. I know we have had three customers in recent months that have trained on category C with Peter, but then come to us for C+E, maybe this has something to do with it all, I don’t know. The whole situation is a sorry mess which I would like to dissolve myself from. It is unlikely that I will be posting any further in this thread, we have been established since 1971 and I’m sure we would not still be around today if we didn’t offer a good service.
So while it may seem like our course was a lot longer compared to what you ended up having with Peter Smyth, readers need to remember that he had already taken 3 tests in a rigid vehicle and that he was very used to driving the Iveco that Peter has because that is where he passed his cateory C. The trailer would have been attached to the same truck he passed his test in making it much easier than adapting to our much larger and rather different to drive articulated vehicle. Alan’s experience with a caravan would enable him to reverse the drawbar trailer easily because it would feel very similar to a caravan (pivot points are the same).
So, in summary, we found Alans driving to have a low standard of observation and planning (it might seem he was a bit nervous perhaps), reacting late to hazards, but his vehicle control was good with good use of gears and we simply recommended a trial lesson of two days to ensure he would progress in a satisfactory manner before booking him a test. Alan was not asked to pay right away for training, we don’t do any sort of hard selling, we only want customers to book a course if they are happy to do so, but we will need a 40% deposit to ensure they are serious and won’t cancel at the last minute. The reason we offer an assessment is to ensure that we don’t put drivers in for the test unless we feel that they will pass because we don’t want to waste our customers money on training they don’t need. I feel that perhaps Alan found it much easier to drive Peter Smyth’s vehicle because we have operated drawbar trucks and I know exactly what a difference it makes.
We feel its important to offer full sized trucks because if Alan gets the job he wants then he will be driving a very large tanker carrying explosive petrol, with an articulated vehicle that handles much differently to a small drawbar truck like most driving schools use, would you want him to drive down your street on his first week at work? Our vehicle costs a lot more money both to buy and run (its twice the price of small drawbar, £95,000 from new just for the unit), I feel its important that customers have a choice. For want of a better way to put it, you can learn in a toy truck for less money to just pass the test or for more money you can learn in a much bigger full sized truck but it will cost you more because you need more practice but you will be better prepared for the real world.
I feel moderators should look carefully at this thread, because it missleading, may harm our reputation and nothing said can be proved in any way, either what I have said or what Alan says initially. I don’t care at all if a customer decides we are not the right driving school for them, all schools operate differently and customers have a choice but I’m unwilling for our reputation to be harmed in this manner.
Wheel Nut:
Dave. I think the conclusions were already drawn after reading this post yesterday, you are much too polite to be a moderator…You may also be interested in the comment about petrol tankers, every driver is allowed a dream, and doesn’t need a training school to shatter it
Hi Malc,
Being polite is one thing, but I’d also like to think I’m fair minded.
I have a point to make and an opinion to offer about the assessment, but fairness dictates that I ask my question first, and it might even be that Tockwith needs to ask the assessor for his recollection in order to give a good answer. It’s only fair.
Unless and until I get an answer, I’ll not be tempted to go off half-cocked. 
It is worth remembering that at the other end of these words there are people who are just as likely to make mistakes as the rest of us. Perticulary for example when angry about a service provided or concerned about there business. So i dont think either party should be hung drawn and quartered just yet.
Phil
Wheel Nut:
Your criticism of the type of lorry lies with the European Union, they deemed an artic unit with a semi trailer was exactly the same as a 12 tonne rigid with a caravan hung behind it. Alan had a class C licence, he wanted a C+E, he had the resources to pay for it, but Tockwith guessed he was a silly old duffer and thought they could rip him.
The vehicle type was the main point I was making. If Alan had gone for another assessment in the same vehicle type as Tockwith uses for C+E and been assessed considerably less than Tockwith said, and passed the test then I think it would have been fairer critisism of Tockwith.
What this thread has obviously shown is that W&D is the route to take if finances are the main concern. It does not mean that Tockwith or full size artics should be avoided.
Sorry if my point came across wrong
dieseldave:
Wheel Nut:
Dave. I think the conclusions were already drawn after reading this post yesterday, you are much too polite to be a moderator…You may also be interested in the comment about petrol tankers, every driver is allowed a dream, and doesn’t need a training school to shatter it
Hi Malc,
Being polite is one thing, but I’d also like to think I’m fair minded.
I have a point to make and an opinion to offer about the assessment, but fairness dictates that I ask my question first, and it might even be that Tockwith needs to ask the assessor for his recollection in order to give a good answer. It’s only fair.
Unless and until I get an answer, I’ll not be tempted to go off half-cocked.
Unlike some eh Dave