Noworries:
That must be some serious long tractor unit to comply with minimum vehicle requirements as a rigid cat c
Not really a lot lot trainers do this
Noworries:
That must be some serious long tractor unit to comply with minimum vehicle requirements as a rigid cat c
Come-on Noworries… try to keep up. 
It had a demountable box (over the 5th wheel) for Class 2.
Think it was a Volvo FM290 (or something like that, I don’t know anything about trucks).
Alan
I would like to thank all the participants in this thread, the vast majority have made sensible replies.
I have looked up your assessment document on our system and can confirm you visited us on the 8/2/2012 for an assessment on our FH13 C+E vehicle. I see that you travelled from your home in Durham and were wishing to drive articulated petrol tankers in the area. You mentioned it took you three times to pass your category C test, which you passed with Peter Smyth. It also mentions that you had experience with a caravan, which I imagine would make reversing Peter’s drawbar truck quite easy for you compared to our full sized artic.
Having chatted with the owner of the company regarding Alan we feel that the way he has described our conduct in his first post is quite missleading. The instructor would ask his age but only mentioned that it would be less easy for him to learn, never was it mentioned that he would be unlikely to ‘make the grade’, how could we say that, at this point we have not seen him drive! Also he suggests he almost had to perswade us to take him out in the vehicle and that we might cancel it part way through, this was not the case, we would only have got Alan out of driving seat if we felt he was not safe and it was not suggested it may only take a few minutes. So where these comments have come from seems bizarre. One thing I can’t understand is why if Alan passed his category C test with Peter Smyth didn’t he go back to them for C+E? Instead he came to us and has written incorrect quotes on this website which prospective customers will read, I can only assume to hurt our reputation. Because Alan went back to his original provider to pass his C+E test I’m starting to wonder if we have been to subject of some sort of collusion to smear our name on this site, which Peter Smyth perhaps does very well out of, but none of this I can prove. I know we have had three customers in recent months that have trained on category C with Peter, but then come to us for C+E, maybe this has something to do with it all, I don’t know. The whole situation is a sorry mess which I would like to dissolve myself from. It is unlikely that I will be posting any further in this thread, we have been established since 1971 and I’m sure we would not still be around today if we didn’t offer a good service.
So while it may seem like our course was a lot longer compared to what you ended up having with Peter Smyth, readers need to remember that he had already taken 3 tests in a rigid vehicle and that he was very used to driving the Iveco that Peter has because that is where he passed his cateory C. The trailer would have been attached to the same truck he passed his test in making it much easier than adapting to our much larger and rather different to drive articulated vehicle. Alan’s experience with a caravan would enable him to reverse the drawbar trailer easily because it would feel very similar to a caravan (pivot points are the same).
So, in summary, we found Alans driving to have a low standard of observation and planning (it might seem he was a bit nervous perhaps), reacting late to hazards, but his vehicle control was good with good use of gears and we simply recommended a trial lesson of two days to ensure he would progress in a satisfactory manner before booking him a test. Alan was not asked to pay right away for training, we don’t do any sort of hard selling, we only want customers to book a course if they are happy to do so, but we will need a 40% deposit to ensure they are serious and won’t cancel at the last minute. The reason we offer an assessment is to ensure that we don’t put drivers in for the test unless we feel that they will pass because we don’t want to waste our customers money on training they don’t need. I feel that perhaps Alan found it much easier to drive Peter Smyth’s vehicle because we have operated drawbar trucks and I know exactly what a difference it makes.
We feel its important to offer full sized trucks because if Alan gets the job he wants then he will be driving a very large tanker carrying explosive petrol, with an articulated vehicle that handles much differently to a small drawbar truck like most driving schools use, would you want him to drive down your street on his first week at work? Our vehicle costs a lot more money both to buy and run (its twice the price of small drawbar, £95,000 from new just for the unit), I feel its important that customers have a choice. For want of a better way to put it, you can learn in a toy truck for less money to just pass the test or for more money you can learn in a much bigger full sized truck but it will cost you more because you need more practice but you will be better prepared for the real world.
I feel moderators should look carefully at this thread, because it missleading, may harm our reputation and nothing said can be proved in any way, either what I have said or what Alan says initially. I don’t care at all if a customer decides we are not the right driving school for them, all schools operate differently and customers have a choice but I’m unwilling for our reputation to be harmed in this manner.
Tockwith Training:
I would like to thank all the participants in this thread, the vast majority have made sensible replies.I have looked up your assessment document on our system and can confirm you visited us on the 8/2/2012 for an assessment on our FH13 C+E vehicle. I see that you travelled from your home in Durham and were wishing to drive articulated petrol tankers in the area. You mentioned it took you three times to pass your category C test, which you passed with Peter Smyth. It also mentions that you had experience with a caravan, which I imagine would make reversing Peter’s drawbar truck quite easy for you compared to our full sized artic.
Having chatted with the owner of the company regarding Alan we feel that the way he has described our conduct in his first post is quite missleading. The instructor would ask his age but only mentioned that it would be less easy for him to learn, never was it mentioned that he would be unlikely to ‘make the grade’, how could we say that, at this point we have not seen him drive! Also he suggests he almost had to perswade us to take him out in the vehicle and that we might cancel it part way through, this was not the case, we would only have got Alan out of driving seat if we felt he was not safe and it was not suggested it may only take a few minutes. So where these comments have come from seems bizarre. One thing I can’t understand is why if Alan passed his category C test with Peter Smyth didn’t he go back to them for C+E? Instead he came to us and has written incorrect quotes on this website which prospective customers will read, I can only assume to hurt our reputation. Because Alan went back to his original provider to pass his C+E test I’m starting to wonder if we have been to subject of some sort of collusion to smear our name on this site, which Peter Smyth perhaps does very well out of, but none of this I can prove. I know we have had three customers in recent months that have trained on category C with Peter, but then come to us for C+E, maybe this has something to do with it all, I don’t know. The whole situation is a sorry mess which I would like to dissolve myself from. It is unlikely that I will be posting any further in this thread, we have been established since 1971 and I’m sure we would not still be around today if we didn’t offer a good service.
So while it may seem like our course was a lot longer compared to what you ended up having with Peter Smyth, readers need to remember that he had already taken 3 tests in a rigid vehicle and that he was very used to driving the Iveco that Peter has because that is where he passed his cateory C. The trailer would have been attached to the same truck he passed his test in making it much easier than adapting to our much larger and rather different to drive articulated vehicle. Alan’s experience with a caravan would enable him to reverse the drawbar trailer easily because it would feel very similar to a caravan (pivot points are the same).
So, in summary, we found Alans driving to have a low standard of observation and planning (it might seem he was a bit nervous perhaps), reacting late to hazards, but his vehicle control was good with good use of gears and we simply recommended a trial lesson of two days to ensure he would progress in a satisfactory manner before booking him a test. Alan was not asked to pay right away for training, we don’t do any sort of hard selling, we only want customers to book a course if they are happy to do so, but we will need a 40% deposit to ensure they are serious and won’t cancel at the last minute. The reason we offer an assessment is to ensure that we don’t put drivers in for the test unless we feel that they will pass because we don’t want to waste our customers money on training they don’t need. I feel that perhaps Alan found it much easier to drive Peter Smyth’s vehicle because we have operated drawbar trucks and I know exactly what a difference it makes.
We feel its important to offer full sized trucks because if Alan gets the job he wants then he will be driving a very large tanker carrying explosive petrol, with an articulated vehicle that handles much differently to a small drawbar truck like most driving schools use, would you want him to drive down your street on his first week at work? Our vehicle costs a lot more money both to buy and run (its twice the price of small drawbar, £95,000 from new just for the unit), I feel its important that customers have a choice. For want of a better way to put it, you can learn in a toy truck for less money to just pass the test or for more money you can learn in a much bigger full sized truck but it will cost you more because you need more practice but you will be better prepared for the real world.
I feel moderators should look carefully at this thread, because it missleading, may harm our reputation and nothing said can be proved in any way, either what I have said or what Alan says initially. I don’t care at all if a customer decides we are not the right driving school for them, all schools operate differently and customers have a choice but I’m unwilling for our reputation to be harmed in this manner.
Right i understand now … Its all Peter Smyth’s fault?
Tockwith Training:
I don’t care at all if a customer decides we are not the right driving school for them,
Sounds like a Gerald Ratner Quote 
It would take a brave man to try to substantiate that claim about Pete Smythe
Just before I leave this thread, I would like to ask moderators to look at Alans 61st post on the 23/2/12, here he mentions he was having dinner with PS, is that Peter Smyth? I have never had dinner with any of my customers, this seems very odd. See for yourself - Is 49years old too old to get lgv licence - #29 by onlyalan - NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK Have I miss read something, I’m not accusing anybody of anything, I just want the matter looked into.
Looking through all of Alans posts he does mention Peters company name 6 times, in different threads, are you getting paid to spread the word of good training?
If he stayed at the b+b then it would be ok if Peter popped down for a pint and chat wouldn’t it ? How would that be seen as suspicious
Would be absolutely gob smacked if Peter was involved in anything underhand
What is suspicious about meeting in the pub before training. I don’t see the problem.
Pete is a very good trainer and I would not see his name dragged through the mud either.
Get off your high horse and look at how ridiculous your allegations sound.
He was scheduled to meet me for a pint before training even though it didn’t work out.
Does that mean I am also guilty of whatever you are accusing Alan of?
Tockwith Training:
I would like to thank all the participants in this thread, the vast majority have made sensible replies.
Until Now!
Your rebuttal has actually done more harm than good in my eyes, as a training buyer if I read that reply I would be using a long marine implement to avoid Tockwith Training.
If Alan is to be believed he was told that he would need 35 hours minimum, even after seeing the C was taken within the last fortnight. Most of us took a test in a different vehicle to the one we drove regularly. It is this comment that worries me most;
I can only assume to hurt our reputation. Because Alan went back to his original provider to pass his C+E test I’m starting to wonder if we have been to subject of some sort of collusion to smear our name on this site, which Peter Smyth perhaps does very well out of, but none of this I can prove. I know we have had three customers in recent months that have trained on category C with Peter, but then come to us for C+E, maybe this has something to do with it all, I don’t know.
Maybe the reason that three customers used you was because you have shiny trucks and they are artics, maybe there is no collusion, and maybe you would rather suggest there is to save face. From where I am standing you are digging a hole around you.
I think a simple apology and acknowledgement that Tockwith Training may have misread a situation would have made your company look better.
Even if Alan had passed his test 7 years ago, a good trainer should have been able to convert him to C+E, even if he had never seen an artic.
I am sorry you haven’t convinced me, and as a Yorkshireman that sort of upsets me.
Tockwith Training:
Just before I leave this thread, I would like to ask moderators to look at Alans 61st post on the 23/2/12, here he mentions he was having dinner with PS, is that Peter Smyth? I have never had dinner with any of my customers, this seems very odd. See for yourself - Is 49years old too old to get lgv licence - #29 by onlyalan - NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK Have I miss read something, I’m not accusing anybody of anything, I just want the matter looked into.Looking through all of Alans posts he does mention Peters company name 6 times, in different threads, are you getting paid to spread the word of good training?
I have looked and I can confirm that a TruckNet UK member having dinner with someone, whoever that someone may be, does not break any forum rules.
ad hominem?
Tockwith Training:
I would like to ask moderators to look at Alans 61st post on the 23/2/12, here he mentions he was having dinner with PS, is that Peter Smyth?
Tockwith Training:
I would like to thank all the participants in this thread, the vast majority have made sensible replies.I have looked up your assessment document on our system and can confirm you visited us on the 8/2/2012 for an assessment on our FH13 C+E vehicle. I see that you travelled from your home in Durham and were wishing to drive articulated petrol tankers in the area. You mentioned it took you three times to pass your category C test, which you passed with Peter Smyth. It also mentions that you had experience with a caravan, which I imagine would make reversing Peter’s drawbar truck quite easy for you compared to our full sized artic.
Having chatted with the owner of the company regarding Alan we feel that the way he has described our conduct in his first post is quite missleading. The instructor would ask his age but only mentioned that it would be less easy for him to learn, never was it mentioned that he would be unlikely to ‘make the grade’, how could we say that, at this point we have not seen him drive! Also he suggests he almost had to perswade us to take him out in the vehicle and that we might cancel it part way through, this was not the case, we would only have got Alan out of driving seat if we felt he was not safe and it was not suggested it may only take a few minutes. So where these comments have come from seems bizarre. One thing I can’t understand is why if Alan passed his category C test with Peter Smyth didn’t he go back to them for C+E? Instead he came to us and has written incorrect quotes on this website which prospective customers will read, I can only assume to hurt our reputation. Because Alan went back to his original provider to pass his C+E test I’m starting to wonder if we have been to subject of some sort of collusion to smear our name on this site, which Peter Smyth perhaps does very well out of, but none of this I can prove. I know we have had three customers in recent months that have trained on category C with Peter, but then come to us for C+E, maybe this has something to do with it all, I don’t know. The whole situation is a sorry mess which I would like to dissolve myself from. It is unlikely that I will be posting any further in this thread, we have been established since 1971 and I’m sure we would not still be around today if we didn’t offer a good service.
So while it may seem like our course was a lot longer compared to what you ended up having with Peter Smyth, readers need to remember that he had already taken 3 tests in a rigid vehicle and that he was very used to driving the Iveco that Peter has because that is where he passed his cateory C. The trailer would have been attached to the same truck he passed his test in making it much easier than adapting to our much larger and rather different to drive articulated vehicle. Alan’s experience with a caravan would enable him to reverse the drawbar trailer easily because it would feel very similar to a caravan (pivot points are the same).
So, in summary, we found Alans driving to have a low standard of observation and planning (it might seem he was a bit nervous perhaps), reacting late to hazards, but his vehicle control was good with good use of gears and we simply recommended a trial lesson of two days to ensure he would progress in a satisfactory manner before booking him a test. Alan was not asked to pay right away for training, we don’t do any sort of hard selling, we only want customers to book a course if they are happy to do so, but we will need a 40% deposit to ensure they are serious and won’t cancel at the last minute. The reason we offer an assessment is to ensure that we don’t put drivers in for the test unless we feel that they will pass because we don’t want to waste our customers money on training they don’t need. I feel that perhaps Alan found it much easier to drive Peter Smyth’s vehicle because we have operated drawbar trucks and I know exactly what a difference it makes.
We feel its important to offer full sized trucks because if Alan gets the job he wants then he will be driving a very large tanker carrying explosive petrol, with an articulated vehicle that handles much differently to a small drawbar truck like most driving schools use, would you want him to drive down your street on his first week at work? Our vehicle costs a lot more money both to buy and run (its twice the price of small drawbar, £95,000 from new just for the unit), I feel its important that customers have a choice. For want of a better way to put it, you can learn in a toy truck for less money to just pass the test or for more money you can learn in a much bigger full sized truck but it will cost you more because you need more practice but you will be better prepared for the real world.
I feel moderators should look carefully at this thread, because it missleading, may harm our reputation and nothing said can be proved in any way, either what I have said or what Alan says initially. I don’t care at all if a customer decides we are not the right driving school for them, all schools operate differently and customers have a choice but I’m unwilling for our reputation to be harmed in this manner.
Well, THAT puts a different slant on my perception of THIS training provider. So much for reasoned discussion, explanation and courtesy.
I feel I must reply to this, even though I note you have say, 'It is unlikely that I will be posting any further in this thread". I am not prepared to play a game of “I have had my say and now I will go and stand in the corner with my fingers in my ears”
Firstly and unequivocably I will say that I have not colluded with ANYONE to smear your name. From the tone of your post it would appear that you do not need any help from me in doing this, you are making a good job of it yourself. I really do not care one way or the other if you succeed in business or go bust.
I appreciate that you have had all day to ‘consider’ your reply - it would appear to me that it is intended to be a damage limitation exercise. Is this your idea of ‘spin doctoring’? If it is, I imagine most readers on here will see through it.
I note your uses of phrases like 'the instructor WOULD have asked him…etc. My post tells you what WAS said. As for being misleading; I took great care with my accuracy, why wouldn’t I?
I also note several inaccuracies in your post - is this because your ‘instructor’ has a poor memory or is it because it makes your spin look more convincing?
Speaking of instructors, I also note you don’t name him, not even his first name. Strange. Is this to protect him or is it because you don’t want to tell the forum exactly which ‘instructor’ it was? I remember very well who I met and I didn’t name him out of respect for his privacy. ‘Instructor’ was not the way he introduced himself to me though. Come on - be up-front, tell the forum who it actually was who gave my ego such a battering.
In summary, I have made my case in my previous posts, I certainly will not degrade myself by answering any further to what I see as your poor attempt at spin.
To other forumites reading this, may I say thank you for your comments, pretty well all of which have seen my point of view and supported me for posting it.
To you, Tockwith Training, I will give some sound advice:
When you find yourself in a hole STOP DIGGING.
(and, for what it is worth, PS had dinner with my partner and I at the bed and breakfast he uses for trainees who live far away. The landlady subsequently told me this is a fairly regular occurance).
Alan
(really Alan, not misleading you, honestly).
Personally, I think that rather pathetic, probably even go as far to say childish, reply from Tockwith just made your company seem even worse. The fact that you try to insinuate that Alan here is being paid to spread only good word about Peter Smythe is utter ludacris and if you keep going like that, who knows where you might end up.
Sorry but I used a different vehicle for my Cat C to my CE my Cat C I used an Iveco with a “slapperbox” for my Ce I used a MAN TGA 380 full size artic not W&D
I passed my Cat C no problems so went back to same trainer for CE yep I did fail but it has been well documented on here & I wont bore you with this again but it made little difference to the vehicle
All the main trainers here ( which there are 4 )
Tyne & Wear LGV ( now a DAF CF )
Jim Hamilton ( Scania )
Van Hee ( sorry cant remember 
)
Tyneside Training Service ( think they still have a older MAN )
All have good reputations all use full size artic for there CE training no W&D outfits here all with good pass rates
Thanks, animal.
Tockwith Training:
I would like to thank all the participants in this thread, the vast majority have made sensible replies.I have looked up your assessment document on our system and can confirm you visited us on the 8/2/2012 for an assessment on our FH13 C+E vehicle. I see that you travelled from your home in Durham and were wishing to drive articulated petrol tankers in the area. You mentioned it took you three times to pass your category C test, which you passed with Peter Smyth. It also mentions that you had experience with a caravan, which I imagine would make reversing Peter’s drawbar truck quite easy for you compared to our full sized artic.
Having chatted with the owner of the company regarding Alan we feel that the way he has described our conduct in his first post is quite missleading. The instructor would ask his age but only mentioned that it would be less easy for him to learn, never was it mentioned that he would be unlikely to ‘make the grade’, how could we say that, at this point we have not seen him drive! Also he suggests he almost had to perswade us to take him out in the vehicle and that we might cancel it part way through, this was not the case, we would only have got Alan out of driving seat if we felt he was not safe and it was not suggested it may only take a few minutes. So where these comments have come from seems bizarre. One thing I can’t understand is why if Alan passed his category C test with Peter Smyth didn’t he go back to them for C+E? Instead he came to us and has written incorrect quotes on this website which prospective customers will read, I can only assume to hurt our reputation. Because Alan went back to his original provider to pass his C+E test I’m starting to wonder if we have been to subject of some sort of collusion to smear our name on this site, which Peter Smyth perhaps does very well out of, but none of this I can prove. I know we have had three customers in recent months that have trained on category C with Peter, but then come to us for C+E, maybe this has something to do with it all, I don’t know. The whole situation is a sorry mess which I would like to dissolve myself from. It is unlikely that I will be posting any further in this thread, we have been established since 1971 and I’m sure we would not still be around today if we didn’t offer a good service.
So while it may seem like our course was a lot longer compared to what you ended up having with Peter Smyth, readers need to remember that he had already taken 3 tests in a rigid vehicle and that he was very used to driving the Iveco that Peter has because that is where he passed his cateory C. The trailer would have been attached to the same truck he passed his test in making it much easier than adapting to our much larger and rather different to drive articulated vehicle. Alan’s experience with a caravan would enable him to reverse the drawbar trailer easily because it would feel very similar to a caravan (pivot points are the same).
So, in summary, we found Alans driving to have a low standard of observation and planning (it might seem he was a bit nervous perhaps), reacting late to hazards, but his vehicle control was good with good use of gears and we simply recommended a trial lesson of two days to ensure he would progress in a satisfactory manner before booking him a test. Alan was not asked to pay right away for training, we don’t do any sort of hard selling, we only want customers to book a course if they are happy to do so, but we will need a 40% deposit to ensure they are serious and won’t cancel at the last minute. The reason we offer an assessment is to ensure that we don’t put drivers in for the test unless we feel that they will pass because we don’t want to waste our customers money on training they don’t need. I feel that perhaps Alan found it much easier to drive Peter Smyth’s vehicle because we have operated drawbar trucks and I know exactly what a difference it makes.
We feel its important to offer full sized trucks because if Alan gets the job he wants then he will be driving a very large tanker carrying explosive petrol, with an articulated vehicle that handles much differently to a small drawbar truck like most driving schools use, would you want him to drive down your street on his first week at work? Our vehicle costs a lot more money both to buy and run (its twice the price of small drawbar, £95,000 from new just for the unit), I feel its important that customers have a choice. For want of a better way to put it, you can learn in a toy truck for less money to just pass the test or for more money you can learn in a much bigger full sized truck but it will cost you more because you need more practice but you will be better prepared for the real world.
I feel moderators should look carefully at this thread, because it missleading, may harm our reputation and nothing said can be proved in any way, either what I have said or what Alan says initially. I don’t care at all if a customer decides we are not the right driving school for them, all schools operate differently and customers have a choice but I’m unwilling for our reputation to be harmed in this manner.
You were the right school for me up until this reply, but if you don’t care I don’t wanna pay.
I think Pete has just won himself another customer, artic or not, despite Alans’ experience I was going to book four days with Tockwith, I for one cannot see any reason Pete would be in collusion with another member, Pete has even gone as far as saying to me “you won’t go wrong with Tockwith” which hardly sounds like pinching candidates or whatever conspiracies you can come up with. I however felt the same as Alan in some respects of the assessment, is it 3 days I need or 4? is this dependant on how full the books are? Maybe the chap doing the assessments might need re-training!
I’m quite saddened by this affair and in my eyes this puts Tockwith in a very poor light, I’m now looking forward to having a bite and a beer with Pete, if he’ll have me.
You might want to remove the TruckNetUK link off your website Tockwith, as if some of your customers come here and see this it would put them off.
Wheel Nut:
Your rebuttal has actually done more harm than good in my eyes, as a training buyer if I read that reply I would be using a long marine implement to avoid Tockwith Training.
This^
welder:
ad hominem?
And this^
Sam Millar:
Personally, I think that rather pathetic, probably even go as far to say childish, reply from Tockwith just made your company seem even worse.
And also this^
MADBAZ:
I’m quite saddened by this affair and in my eyes this puts Tockwith in a very poor light
And finally this^
The replies from Tockworth come across as belittling the OP and then trying to smear another training provider because someone had the audacity to criticise them.