Quiz

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
61

Coffeeholic:
ROG, have a go at answering the question I’ve asked you about 4 times so far and you have ignored. If you answer it you will also have the answer to your confusion.

Sorry - was thinking about this :slight_smile:

6 What’s the minimum amount of daily rest you can have in a week working Monday to Friday

The question clearly asks for DAILY rest
The question clearly states that the driver ends the working week on Friday

Has the driver complied with the DAILY rest requirements - YES :slight_smile:

Is the driver, on DAILY or WEEKLY rest after finishing work on Friday :question:
WEEKLY - as the question states that the working week has finished.

Ask anyone if they are on DAILY or WEEKLY rest when they finish on a Friday and have at least 24 hours off and they will say WEEKLY rest not DAILY rest

The question asked very specifically for DAILY rest.

To get to the answer of DAILY rest ONLY then the wording of the question must be different
What’s the minimum amount of daily rest you can have Monday to Friday?
Not knowing whether the driver intends to work on the Saturday or not means that only the DAILY rest can be answered and that answer will be 49

OR the question could be asked thus -
What’s the minimum amount of daily rest REQUIREMENT you can have in a week working Monday to Friday?
Requirement is not the same as what it is called and the question asked for what it is called not the requirement

The terminology used and asked for in the question was quite clear as was the situation in which it was asked

Something you recently reminded me of :wink: :wink: :slight_smile:

Coffeeholic:
I just assumed it was your regular misunderstanding of the regulations and the terms used.

62

ROG:

Coffeeholic:
ROG, have a go at answering the question I’ve asked you about 4 times so far and you have ignored. If you answer it you will also have the answer to your confusion.

Sorry - was thinking about this :slight_smile:

Which means once again you haven’t answered the question as to why the driver cannot work more than 15 hours on that day. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

ROG:

6 What’s the minimum amount of daily rest you can have in a week working Monday to Friday

The question clearly asks for DAILY rest
The question clearly states that the driver ends the working week on Friday

Stop worrying about some term you got from a guide to the regulations rather than the regulations them self. :unamused: :unamused:

ROG:
Has the driver complied with the DAILY rest requirements - YES :slight_smile:

Exactly, he has had a daily rest for Friday so has met the requirements of the regulations.

ROG:
Is the driver, on DAILY or WEEKLY rest after finishing work on Friday :question:
WEEKLY - as the question states that the working week has finished.

Initially he is on daily rest which is extended into a weekly rest. He has to be on daily rest because of this from the regulations, the actual regulations not some dumbed down guide to them. That guide is merely pointing out the fixed week and the working week can be different.

Article 8 (2.) Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.

Note that says each period of 24 hours, not each period except the last day of the week, so that applies to each period the driver does whether it is 3, 4, 5, or 6 and regardless of whether it is the first, middle or last period of the week.

ROG:
Ask anyone if they are on DAILY or WEEKLY rest when they finish on a Friday and have at least 24 hours off and they will say WEEKLY rest not DAILY rest

Yes, but that doesn’t make them right. one of the more common misconceptions and infringements is a driver working an extra 15 hour duty on his last day of the week, after already reducing their daily rest 3 times, because they don’t realise the daily rest requirement still applies and they must fit 11 hours DAILY rest into the 24 hour period which began when they started work that day. If it didn’t apply what’s to stop them working 22 hours?

ROG:
The question asked very specifically for DAILY rest.

To get to the answer of DAILY rest ONLY then the wording of the question must be different

What’s the minimum amount of daily rest REQUIREMENT you can have in a week working Monday to Friday?

What’s the minimum amount of daily rest you can have in a week working Monday to Friday

Those two questions say the same thing, the word requirement doesn’t change that

ROG:
Something you recently reminded me of :wink: :wink: :slight_smile:

Coffeeholic:
I just assumed it was your regular misunderstanding of the regulations and the terms used.

Which once again you have shown to be true because you aren’t answering questions which would show you the answer. You are reading and relying on a dumbed down guide to the regulations rather than the actual regs. You had doubts about this answer right from the start. You initially got it right then changed it when you so Malc’s answer, then went back to it and was sure it was the one you were getting wrong.

Once again, and try not to do the politician not answering the question because it doesn’t suit thing. What part of the regulations prevent a driver working in excess of 15 hours on his last day before a weekly rest? Why can’t he work 18 or 22 hours that day? Could it be because of Article 8, Section 2?

Article 8 (2.) Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.

63

I’m really looking forward to reading the replies to Quiz 2, which I expect Del will be posting shortly, when I get back from Paris tomorrow. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

64

Coffeeholic:
What part of the regulations prevent a driver working in excess of 15 hours on his last day before a weekly rest? Why can’t he work 18 or 22 hours that day?

As I stated - the daily rest REQUIREMENT
But that requirement was not what was asked for in the question
The question asked for the amount of daily rest in a senario
That senario made the terminology for the rest after finishing on the friday, weekly
Weekly rest was not asked for only what was termed daily rest

65

ROG:
The question clearly asks for DAILY rest
The question clearly states that the driver ends the working week on Friday

Yes Rog it does say Friday but no time

Rog you say he taking is weekly rest how much rest as the driver
from Monday which could start at 00.00 to Friday and remember Friday ends at 24.00

6 What’s the minimum amount of daily rest you can have in a week working Monday to Friday

this is my question is it not so from 00.00 Mon till 24.00 Friday what is the minimum rest required

or what i should have said which is the same what’s the minimum rest in 5 x 24 hour periods between Mon and Friday

66

ROG:

Coffeeholic:
What part of the regulations prevent a driver working in excess of 15 hours on his last day before a weekly rest? Why can’t he work 18 or 22 hours that day?

As I stated - the daily rest REQUIREMENT

Exactly, so there is a daily rest for Friday and in answering the question you need to count those hours.

ROG:
The question asked for the amount of daily rest in a senario

Exactly, the question asked the amount of daily rest in 5x24 hour periods.

Simple, we got there in the end. Right, I can go to work now, I was supposed to start at 7 o’clock today. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

67

Now you can see why I said that the way in which the question was asked makes all the difference :exclamation:

delboytwo:
Yes Rog it does say Friday but no time

Does not matter - you said he had ended the working week andat the end of a working week a weekly rest is taken

delboytwo:
from Monday which could start at 00.00 to Friday and remember Friday ends at 24.00

I said that if you made this the perameters of the question and did not state that the working week had ended that the answer would be 49

delboytwo:
from 00.00 Mon till 24.00 Friday what is the minimum rest required

49

delboytwo:
what’s the minimum rest in 5 x 24 hour periods between Mon and Friday

49

Easy to answer when the question is clearly set :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

68

Coffeeholic:
Exactly, the question asked the amount of daily rest in 5x24 hour periods.

No it did not - if it had then the answer would be 49

69

6 What’s the minimum amount of daily rest you can have in a week working Monday to Friday

this is my question

ROG:
Does not matter - you said he had ended the working week andat the end of a working week a weekly rest is taken

Rog where does it say that he had ended his week

for all anyone know the driver could be back in on Saturday

70

delboytwo:
Rog where does it say that he had ended his week

delboytwo:
in a week working Monday to Friday

clearly says that this is the working week - working Monday to Friday

71

delboytwo wrote:have a bit of fun

Coffeeholic:
This should be good. I can see a couple of those questions leading to this being a multi-page thread. :smiley: :smiley:

Fun, (zb) fun! I am going to the dentist, that will be Fun! :stuck_out_tongue:

Curses!

Delboy2 and Coffeholic must have an Achilles heel.

Muttley do something! :stuck_out_tongue:

72

ROG:

delboytwo:
Rog where does it say that he had ended his week

delboytwo:
in a week working Monday to Friday

clearly says that this is the working week - working Monday to Friday

Rog you now doing what i have been told by you many times in the forum not to put something that is clearly not there

a working week is a period of time from a point to a point as the driver could not clearly work the full 24 hours on Friday the would be a daily rest at some point of that 24 hour period

73

delboytwo:
a working week is a period of time from a point to a point as the driver could not clearly work the full 24 hours on Friday the would be a daily rest at some point of that 24 hour period

And you missed the point of where you stated a senario with perameters and asked for something specific using those perameters you set

If you are asking if the daily rest requirements have been met on the friday then my answer is yes but you said that the driver only worked that week from mon to fri so at the point on fri where the driver finished and that rest was extended to at least 24 hours then it became weekly rest - you asked for the terminology of ‘daily’

As I keep saying - the way in which the question was put is why I gave the answer I did and that answer was in reference to the terminology used.

Whether that answer was ‘legally correct’ or not, I’ll abide by the decision of coffeeholic :smiley:

74

ROG:

delboytwo:
a working week is a period of time from a point to a point as the driver could not clearly work the full 24 hours on Friday the would be a daily rest at some point of that 24 hour period

And you missed the point of where you stated a senario with perameters and asked for something specific using those perameters you set

If you are asking if the daily rest requirements have been met on the friday then my answer is yes but you said that the driver only worked that week from mon to fri so at the point on fri where the driver finished and that rest was extended to at least 24 hours then it became weekly rest - you asked for the terminology of ‘daily’

As I keep saying - the way in which the question was put is why I gave the answer I did and that answer was in reference to the terminology used.

Whether that answer was ‘legally correct’ or not, I’ll abide by the decision of coffeeholic :smiley:

OK Rog think of this what would the answer be if for instance the driver on Friday morning finished at say 10 am but has to go in to work for one hour at 9pm on Friday as said how much minimum rest could the driver have, there you are 49 hours its still Monday to Friday there some many possible permeations of what time the driver starts, there one, you think on that :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

75

dambuster:

ROG:
VOSA

Note: An actual working week starts at the end of a weekly rest period, and finishes when another weekly rest period is commenced,

No extra charge after midnight.

Without going looking, I’m going to stick my neck out and say that I don’t remember reading - in the actual regulations - about a “working week”

I have though read about a fixed week.

You know what - I have to come back to this.

While looking for something else, I came across a bit of wording that has changed. In the copy of the legislation I’m using/reading the term “fixed week” isn’t there. It says in the definitions that “a week” is the midnight to midnight thing, and still Mon-Fri.

The passage used by ROG above, from the VOSA Guide is very, very close to being a contradiction of the actual legislation — but I don’t have the time at the moment to fully work out that (possible) contradiction.

76

dambuster:
While looking for something else, I came across a bit of wording that has changed. In the copy of the legislation I’m using/reading the term “fixed week” isn’t there. It says in the definitions that “a week” is the midnight to midnight thing, and still Mon-Fri.

hi mate this is what the EU regs say about a week

REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006

‘a week’ means the period of time between 00.00 on
Monday and 24.00 on Sunday;

77

Erm . . . . Yeah, exactly. The term “fixed week” isn’t there.

Which is the thread where coffee drew the “4 10 hour drives” conclusion ?

78

dambuster:
Erm . . . . Yeah, exactly. The term “fixed week” isn’t there.

Which is the thread where coffee drew the “4 10 hour drives” conclusion ?

i think it to do with how the member state word it if you look in the GV 262 page 15

there a 4x 10 hours works graph

businesslink.gov.uk/Transpor … hicles.pdf

the above link is the most up to date copy from Vosa

79

The term ‘week’ is mon 0000 to sun 2400 so in that respect it is ‘fixed’ and can therefore be referred to as a ‘week’

The ‘working week’ refers to the period from when the driver starts work after a weekly rest and that ‘working week’ ends when the driver starts the next weekly rest

The two are correct but refer to seperate things

80

delboytwo:
i think it to do with how the member state word it if you look in the GV 262 page 15

there a 4x 10 hours works graph

businesslink.gov.uk/Transpor … hicles.pdf

the above link is the most up to date copy from Vosa

Yeah, that is indeed over a six day period - but it spans two weeks.