Monkey241:
One of the SUPPOSED benefits?
It did indeed end importation of cheap Labour.
No.
Brexit ended the right of citizens to move freely within the territory of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland. When they are lawfully in one of those countries, they should not be treated differently from citizens of that country in terms of:
Access to employment
Working conditions
Taxation
Access to training
Access to trade unions
Access to (for example) housing, education, education for their children
Currently we have easier cabotage rules for foreign drivers, in foreign reg trucks, doing domestic UK work than before Brexit.
Cheaper labour, with lower overheads, not paying UK income tax, NI, bosses not paying UK road tax, business tax.
You want better pay for UK workers? I do.
Up the minimum wage for all. Stop zero hours contracts.
Not a chance whilst we have the boss of the Bank of England telling us “not to be greedy”!
Are truck drivers underpaid in all EU countries? Underpayment isn`t because of the EU.
Franglais:
Monkey241:
One of the SUPPOSED benefits?
It did indeed end importation of cheap Labour.
No.
Brexit ended the right of citizens to move freely within the territory of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland. When they are lawfully in one of those countries, they should not be treated differently from citizens of that country in terms of:
Access to employment
Working conditions
Taxation
Access to training
Access to trade unions
Access to (for example) housing, education, education for their children
Currently we have easier cabotage rules for foreign drivers, in foreign reg trucks, doing domestic UK work than before Brexit.
Cheaper labour, with lower overheads, not paying UK income tax, NI, bosses not paying UK road tax, business tax.
You want better pay for UK workers? I do.
Up the minimum wage for all. Stop zero hours contracts.
Not a chance whilst we have the boss of the Bank of England telling us “not to be greedy”!
Are truck drivers underpaid in all EU countries? Underpayment isn`t because of the EU.
Yes…it did
Better pay for UK workers?
An extra 7 grand for me last year [emoji6]
Underpayment results from an oversupply of labour
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Monkey241:
Let me know when we conclude a free movement agreement with any other State who’s colour you dislike.
Unfortunately Monkey the state whose colour I dislike has inhabitants who look like this
whisperingsmith:
Monkey241:
Let me know when we conclude a free movement agreement with any other State who’s colour you dislike.
Unfortunately Monkey the state whose colour I dislike has inhabitants who look like this
0
More racism.
Any insult predicated on skin colouring is just that.
What next? Insulting my mixed race wife? (Mind you, we’ve already established you don’t like our darker skinned brethren)
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Conor:
wakou:
But Yay! Brexit is a triumph! We are all SO much better off, now that we have our precious “sovreignty” Aren’t we?
Millions of the lowest paid workers, including lorry drivers, who do low/unskilled/undesirable jobs that saw a massive influx of Eastern Europeans are considerably better off. Many lorry drivers have seen 10,20,30,40,50% wage increases over the last 12 months with many now getting wages reserved for own contract FTSE 250 listed companies.
GORDON 50:
Conor:
wakou:
But Yay! Brexit is a triumph! We are all SO much better off, now that we have our precious “sovreignty” Aren’t we?
Millions of the lowest paid workers, including lorry drivers, who do low/unskilled/undesirable jobs that saw a massive influx of Eastern Europeans are considerably better off. Many lorry drivers have seen 10,20,30,40,50% wage increases over the last 12 months with many now getting wages reserved for own contract FTSE 250 listed companies.
Spot on, this was one of the main, if not the main problem with EU membership. If the EU hadn’t enlarged so soon into the ex commie bloc then I’m sure brexit wouldn’t have happened.
You know this is total nonsense that was spouted by the likes of Farage et al.
It is true indeed the EU enlarged in 2004 from the existing 15 members welcoming a further 10 member states, including those from behind the former Iron Curtain. There was an agreement between the existing members which put in place a transitional period of up to 7 years which restricted access to these countries labour markets for the citizens of the new member states joining. But UK government policy, in fact the then Labour government decided to open up the UK labour market to the citizens of these new member states straight away. Only two other countries along with the UK did this, Ireland & Sweden while Germany & Austria effectively closed of their labour markets until the end of the transitional period in 2011.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your anti EU mindset.
hipsway:
Conor:
wakou:
But Yay! Brexit is a triumph! We are all SO much better off, now that we have our precious “sovreignty” Aren’t we?
Millions of the lowest paid workers, including lorry drivers, who do low/unskilled/undesirable jobs that saw a massive influx of Eastern Europeans are considerably better off. Many lorry drivers have seen 10,20,30,40,50% wage increases over the last 12 months with many now getting wages reserved for own contract FTSE 250 listed companies.
3 years ago we were in the EU and we had an unlimited influx of cheap labour which supressed our own low paid/ unskilled wages.
Now we’re not in the EU we no longer have this influx and wages have risen.
Can you spot the difference?
You know this is total nonsense that was spouted by the likes of Farage et al.
It is true indeed the EU enlarged in 2004 from the existing 15 members welcoming a further 10 member states, including those from behind the former Iron Curtain. There was an agreement between the existing members which put in place a transitional period of up to 7 years which restricted access to these countries labour markets for the citizens of the new member states joining. But UK government policy, in fact the then Labour government decided to open up the UK labour market to the citizens of these new member states straight away. Only two other countries along with the UK did this, Ireland & Sweden while Germany & Austria effectively closed of their labour markets until the end of the transitional period in 2011.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your anti EU mindset.
And 2004 plus 7 is…?
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Monkey241:
hipsway:
Conor:
wakou:
But Yay! Brexit is a triumph! We are all SO much better off, now that we have our precious “sovreignty” Aren’t we?
Millions of the lowest paid workers, including lorry drivers, who do low/unskilled/undesirable jobs that saw a massive influx of Eastern Europeans are considerably better off. Many lorry drivers have seen 10,20,30,40,50% wage increases over the last 12 months with many now getting wages reserved for own contract FTSE 250 listed companies.
3 years ago we were in the EU and we had an unlimited influx of cheap labour which supressed our own low paid/ unskilled wages.
Now we’re not in the EU we no longer have this influx and wages have risen.
Can you spot the difference?
You know this is total nonsense that was spouted by the likes of Farage et al.
It is true indeed the EU enlarged in 2004 from the existing 15 members welcoming a further 10 member states, including those from behind the former Iron Curtain. There was an agreement between the existing members which put in place a transitional period of up to 7 years which restricted access to these countries labour markets for the citizens of the new member states joining. But UK government policy, in fact the then Labour government decided to open up the UK labour market to the citizens of these new member states straight away. Only two other countries along with the UK did this, Ireland & Sweden while Germany & Austria effectively closed of their labour markets until the end of the transitional period in 2011.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your anti EU mindset.
And 2004 plus 7 is…?
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I thought that was clear enough, no 
Monkey241:
Franglais:
Monkey241:
One of the SUPPOSED benefits?
It did indeed end importation of cheap Labour.
No.
Brexit ended the right of citizens to move freely within the territory of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland. When they are lawfully in one of those countries, they should not be treated differently from citizens of that country in terms of:
Access to employment
Working conditions
Taxation
Access to training
Access to trade unions
Access to (for example) housing, education, education for their children
Currently we have easier cabotage rules for foreign drivers, in foreign reg trucks, doing domestic UK work than before Brexit.
Cheaper labour, with lower overheads, not paying UK income tax, NI, bosses not paying UK road tax, business tax.
You want better pay for UK workers? I do.
Up the minimum wage for all. Stop zero hours contracts.
Not a chance whilst we have the boss of the Bank of England telling us “not to be greedy”!
Are truck drivers underpaid in all EU countries? Underpayment isn`t because of the EU.
Yes…it did
Better pay for UK workers?
An extra 7 grand for me last year [emoji6]
Underpayment results from an oversupply of labour
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Yeah, I got a sizeable payrise recently too, but how well of I’m actually going to be in the short term never mind the long is debatable. I needn’t explain why, we’re already experiencing some of what’s coming down the tracks!
hipsway:
Monkey241:
Franglais:
Monkey241:
One of the SUPPOSED benefits?
It did indeed end importation of cheap Labour.
No.
Brexit ended the right of citizens to move freely within the territory of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland. When they are lawfully in one of those countries, they should not be treated differently from citizens of that country in terms of:
Access to employment
Working conditions
Taxation
Access to training
Access to trade unions
Access to (for example) housing, education, education for their children
Currently we have easier cabotage rules for foreign drivers, in foreign reg trucks, doing domestic UK work than before Brexit.
Cheaper labour, with lower overheads, not paying UK income tax, NI, bosses not paying UK road tax, business tax.
You want better pay for UK workers? I do.
Up the minimum wage for all. Stop zero hours contracts.
Not a chance whilst we have the boss of the Bank of England telling us “not to be greedy”!
Are truck drivers underpaid in all EU countries? Underpayment isn`t because of the EU.
Yes…it did
Better pay for UK workers?
An extra 7 grand for me last year [emoji6]
Underpayment results from an oversupply of labour
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Yeah, I got a sizeable payrise recently too, but how well off I’m actually going to be in the short term never mind the long is debatable. I needn’t explain why, we’re already experiencing some of what’s coming down the tracks!
Let me guess?
Inflation is down to Brexit?
Your little diatribe about FoM and the EU is prevarication. At best, govt naivete about Eastern European immigration simply hastened the inevitable.
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hipsway:
Conor:
wakou:
But Yay! Brexit is a triumph! We are all SO much better off, now that we have our precious “sovreignty” Aren’t we?
Millions of the lowest paid workers, including lorry drivers, who do low/unskilled/undesirable jobs that saw a massive influx of Eastern Europeans are considerably better off. Many lorry drivers have seen 10,20,30,40,50% wage increases over the last 12 months with many now getting wages reserved for own contract FTSE 250 listed companies.
GORDON 50:
Conor:
wakou:
But Yay! Brexit is a triumph! We are all SO much better off, now that we have our precious “sovreignty” Aren’t we?
Millions of the lowest paid workers, including lorry drivers, who do low/unskilled/undesirable jobs that saw a massive influx of Eastern Europeans are considerably better off. Many lorry drivers have seen 10,20,30,40,50% wage increases over the last 12 months with many now getting wages reserved for own contract FTSE 250 listed companies.
Spot on, this was one of the main, if not the main problem with EU membership. If the EU hadn’t enlarged so soon into the ex commie bloc then I’m sure brexit wouldn’t have happened.
You know this is total nonsense that was spouted by the likes of Farage et al.
It is true indeed the EU enlarged in 2004 from the existing 15 members welcoming a further 10 member states, including those from behind the former Iron Curtain. There was an agreement between the existing members which put in place a transitional period of up to 7 years which restricted access to these countries labour markets for the citizens of the new member states joining. But UK government policy, in fact the then Labour government decided to open up the UK labour market to the citizens of these new member states straight away. Only two other countries along with the UK did this, Ireland & Sweden while Germany & Austria effectively closed of their labour markets until the end of the transitional period in 2011.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your anti EU mindset.
Not an anti EU mindset at all, I had no problem with the EU till it decided to almost double in size and let in half a continent of countries that had only been out of the iron grip of communism for 15 odd years, which was nowhere near long enough to allow the difference in living standards to equalise, it’s this massive chasm that caused brexit.
I seem to remember the transition period being 3 years but I’ll believe your 7 years while I check that one.
Remaining would only have made this problem worse as the EU expands into more poorer countries (which it no doubt will), I remember being told by a couple of agencies in 2005 that I would be competing for work with cheap labour from the EU till I retire, not something anyone should have to be told.
GORDON 50:
Not an anti EU mindset at all, I had no problem with the EU till it decided to almost double in size and let in half a continent of countries that had only been out of the iron grip of communism for 15 odd years, which was nowhere near long enough to allow the difference in living standards to equalise, it’s this massive chasm that caused brexit.
I seem to remember the transition period being 3 years but I’ll believe your 7 years while I check that one.
Remaining would only have made this problem worse as the EU expands into more poorer countries (which it no doubt will), I remember being told by a couple of agencies in 2005 that I would be competing for work with cheap labour from the EU till I retire, not something anyone should have to be told.
We cant go back to 1989, but we can try to remember what the world was like then. The West was against Soviet Communist Russia, and its puppet states` Governments, but was all for the liberty of those people held down. We were all for their liberation.
So, when the Iron Curtain dropped what should have happened?
Should these poorer countries have been left to rise ever so slowly, until they reached the same level as the West?
Those satellite countries would soon see that the West were not their true friends, and revert to taking financial support from Russia. There would be another East/West divide with many more countries than now supporting Putin.
Or would it have been the rich West with a poor population sat on our doorstep and just a fence separating them from wealth?
The entry of a large number of poorer countries was bad for us economically.
Undoubtedly. Welcome To Reality!
No-one in an ideal world would have planned it all like that!
But we were presented with a choice, and losing out economically seemed to be the best way for peace, and for a long term financial gain.
The entry of the ex Commie Blok cost money, but the alternatives, in the real world, would have been less stability, and indeed less prosperity if we dealt in a smaller trading block, with more illegal immigration, and more security costs.
No one wants to go back to 1989, those east european countries were totally ruined by communism and the more help they could get the better, not against that at all. But that doesn’t mean we all have to become one massive superstate, you only need to look at Yugoslavia to see the obvious. Scotland wants to break away from the UK, Catalonia wants to break away from Spain, as does (or did) the Basque region, not every country wants or needs to be part of a bigger, power supping superstate, good trade agreements can do pretty much the same thing to lift countries out of poverty.
GORDON 50:
you only need to look at Yugoslavia to see the obvious.
When the separate states were forced together by the Communists, they rebelled and fought against it.
Now?
Croatia and Slovenia are in the EU. Bosnia and Herzegovinia, and Macedonia have applied to join. Montenegro and Serbia joining 2025?
Obviously they are not against joining the EU!
GORDON 50:
Catalonia wants to break away from Spain,
Yes, as some Scots want to leave the UK.
One argument against it has been the ability of a new state to join the EU. Some pro independence Scots were and are pro EU.
Now the UK has left the EU there is an argument being made that the Scots would be much better off now by leaving the UK as they could more easily join the EU!
It is not a clear argument you`re making.
GORDON 50:
good trade agreements can do pretty much the same thing to lift countries out of poverty.
Yep. Good trade makes money and helps peaceful relationships for all countries, not just poorer ones.
So why have we opted for such a hard Brexit?
We must be the only country in the world making trade with our biggest markets harder!
Franglais:
GORDON 50:
Not an anti EU mindset at all, I had no problem with the EU till it decided to almost double in size and let in half a continent of countries that had only been out of the iron grip of communism for 15 odd years, which was nowhere near long enough to allow the difference in living standards to equalise, it’s this massive chasm that caused brexit.
I seem to remember the transition period being 3 years but I’ll believe your 7 years while I check that one.
Remaining would only have made this problem worse as the EU expands into more poorer countries (which it no doubt will), I remember being told by a couple of agencies in 2005 that I would be competing for work with cheap labour from the EU till I retire, not something anyone should have to be told.
We cant go back to 1989, but we can try to remember what the world was like then. The West was against Soviet Communist Russia, and its puppet states` Governments, but was all for the liberty of those people held down. We were all for their liberation.
So, when the Iron Curtain dropped what should have happened?
Should these poorer countries have been left to rise ever so slowly, until they reached the same level as the West?
Those satellite countries would soon see that the West were not their true friends, and revert to taking financial support from Russia. There would be another East/West divide with many more countries than now supporting Putin.
Or would it have been the rich West with a poor population sat on our doorstep and just a fence separating them from wealth?
The entry of a large number of poorer countries was bad for us economically.
Undoubtedly. Welcome To Reality!
No-one in an ideal world would have planned it all like that!
But we were presented with a choice, and losing out economically seemed to be the best way for peace, and for a long term financial gain.
The entry of the ex Commie Blok cost money, but the alternatives, in the real world, would have been less stability, and indeed less prosperity if we dealt in a smaller trading block, with more illegal immigration, and more security costs.
Now that’s a fairly ideogocally skewed view of the last 30 years if ever there were one.
I’m sure the fairly serious incidences of ex Eastern bloc instability since will be simply accounted for as ‘it would have been far worse’.
Do ethnic tensions simply disappear with a few extra quid? If that’s the logic for Polish and Romanian accession why hasn’t the EU accelerated claims by Bosnia, Kosovo etc etc
Let’s not pretend that their accession was anything other than economic self interest rather than some kind of EU philanthropy.
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Admittedly we’ve made things harder, but tough times happen when there’s a separation/ divorce. Businesses are amazingly good at adapting and working their way through things so it won’t exactly be long term. We’re not going to self destruct as a result of brexit are we…we still have to function as a country and in my opinion we will be better off out in the long run. If the EU was that good then why aren’t countries like Norway and Switzerland scrambling to upgrade their limited membership and join fully? And why did the remain camp lose the referendum despite having a much bigger campaign budget.
GORDON 50:
Admittedly we’ve made things harder, but tough times happen when there’s a separation/ divorce. Businesses are amazingly good at adapting and working their way through things so it won’t exactly be long term. We’re not going to self destruct as a result of brexit are we…we still have to function as a country and in my opinion we will be better off out in the long run. If the EU was that good then why aren’t countries like Norway and Switzerland scrambling to upgrade their limited membership and join fully? And why did the remain camp lose the referendum despite having a much bigger campaign budget.
There are some teething problems which will smooth out, agreed.
There are also those some new costs which will be permanent, and they haven`t all been put in place yet. The extra paperwork is going to be an ongoing cost for exporters and importers.
Norway and Switzerland arent wanting to get closer to the EU than they are its true, equally they don`t seem about to pull as far away as we have.
Why did the vote go the way it did?
Ah, well…
Franglais:
GORDON 50:
Admittedly we’ve made things harder, but tough times happen when there’s a separation/ divorce. Businesses are amazingly good at adapting and working their way through things so it won’t exactly be long term. We’re not going to self destruct as a result of brexit are we…we still have to function as a country and in my opinion we will be better off out in the long run. If the EU was that good then why aren’t countries like Norway and Switzerland scrambling to upgrade their limited membership and join fully? And why did the remain camp lose the referendum despite having a much bigger campaign budget.
There are some teething problems which will smooth out, agreed.
There are also those some new costs which will be permanent, and they haven`t all been put in place yet. The extra paperwork is going to be an ongoing cost for exporters and importers.
Norway and Switzerland arent wanting to get closer to the EU than they are its true, equally they don`t seem about to pull as far away as we have.
Why did the vote go the way it did?
Ah, well…
Can’t articulate why?
You can’t combat an argument until you at least understand it
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GORDON 50:
Scotland wants to break away from the UK
That needs to be seen in context - if England left the UK so that the UK was:- Wales, Scotland, Cornwall & the Irish in Ulster (Maybe even Brittany) I’m sure Scotland would be happy to stay in the UK.
It’s more getting away from the Anglo Saxon Tories/UKIP (Sassenachs in Scots & Welsh, Sousen in Cornish) and of course Brexit, rather than leaving the UK as such.
whisperingsmith:
GORDON 50:
Scotland wants to break away from the UK
That needs to be seen in context - if England left the UK so that the UK was:- Wales, Scotland, Cornwall & the Irish in Ulster (Maybe even Brittany) I’m sure Scotland would be happy to stay in the UK.
It’s more getting away from the Anglo Saxon Tories/UKIP (Sassenachs in Scots & Welsh, Sousen in Cornish) and of course Brexit, rather than leaving the UK as such.
They’ve been banging on about going it alone since the 70s at least as far as I can recall so nothing to do with tories or any party.
