I was pleasantly surprised to find out our rates have gone up by a whole, well half a £ per hour. What I was less than pleased to find out is our daily shift guarantee has been lowered from 8 to 6 hours. With many of our runs totaling 5-6-7 hours that’s actually a significant pay cut per week on average if you’re sent on the short routes. All agencies I’ve worked for so far had 8 hours paid no matter what (as long as the shift wasn’t cancelled) so have you other agency drivers noticed a decrease in that number or is it agency/client dependent?
Nope. Minimum hours stayed the same, money went up.
Remember that the Swedish Derogation of the AWR was repealed as of 6th April so once you’ve been at the same client 12 weeks if they’re paid more you’re entitled to the same pay, if the permanent staff get a minimum 8hrs guaranteed so do you and if they get paid breaks so do you and if they get more days a year holiday you are entitled to the same. Only applies if you’re PAYE with your agency though.
Conor:
Nope. Minimum hours stayed the same, money went up.
How do you know? I mean no one told me until I looked at my online timesheet. Still trying to get my holiday btw, last time they told me it’s been ‘delayed because of convinientvirus, don’t worry you’ll get it’
Conor:
Nope. Minimum hours stayed the same, money went up.
How do you know?
First of all we got an email with the new terms and conditions of our contract stating what the changes were due to the changes in the AWR which we had to sign and return, basically we became entitled to parity pay but would no longer get a guaranteed weekly minimum if there was no work in any week as the Swedish derogation which allowed an agency to not pay parity pay after 12 weeks stated there must be a minimum number of hours paid in any week there was no work as compensation. My agency sent me a text telling me the wages were going up and what the new rates were. Followed it up with a phone call to make sure we understood what the changes to our contracts meant.
There’s a reason I’ve been with my agency over 6 years now and that’s because they do things by the book, even with the self employed - no "£1/hr over PAYE rates with them, for the Ltd drivers the rates they pay are the PAYE rate plus the employers NI, holiday pay and employer’s workplace pension contributions they’d have had to fork out for a PAYE driver on top of the PAYE hourly rate.
You know what? ■■■■ this. I’ve looked at my rota for next week - 4 days total; 3 short runs (6 hours) and 1 maybe 8; so that’s 24 hours @ £15 ph. is £360 before tax/NI, so <£300 take home; my UC allowance is about £200 per week; therefore I will be doing 4 days work for £100 difference; I think I’mma stay home and save lives instead.
Going back about 10 yrs I worked for a agency on Tescos contract and they only paid a min of 6hrs, It didn’t happen very often but it used to cheese me off. Midnight start, 40 mile round trip to work all for 6hrs pay. I wasn’t a happy bunny.
elsa Lad:
Going back about 10 yrs I worked for a agency on Tescos contract and they only paid a min of 6hrs, It didn’t happen very often but it used to cheese me off. Midnight start, 40 mile round trip to work all for 6hrs pay. I wasn’t a happy bunny.
The reason they (used to) pay 8 hours was in their own words (one of the client’s TMs) ‘‘If we only paid actual hours on duty no one would want to show up for the short runs’’ but this was waaay back when work was a plenty where as now they have way more drivers than they have runs and trucks for (all their trucks are hired so they just returned them when the thing happened) so it’s simply hand-twisting on their part, it seems to me. Meanwhile they’re still claiming 80% on their own staff most of whom are home with agency workers operating in the warehouse and the trucks. Penny crunching at its worst. Now anything under 6hrs 45mins you only get 6 paid and it’s that or nothing if you’re not on UC. Fortunately I applied for it and got £820 allowance of which I only get £300 or so per month because I work but now I consider not doing any short runs, in fact I won’t be doing any weeks where I don’t have 32 hours guaranteed (4 runs of 8 hrs 45 mins each) and I won’t even feel bad about it
It’s times like these that will bite the rush round like their arse is on fire merchants, both agency and salaried (ane even amazingly the hourly paid ) they’ve been tearing about knocking several hours off trip times for years in order to gain an hour of ‘‘free’’ pay, running out the gate thinking they were winning the job n knock game, all they’ve done is establish a pattern of times they’re now going to struggle to extend, why do so many in our game shoot themselves in the foot so boringly frequently.
Juddian:
It’s times like these that will bite the rush round like their arse is on fire merchants, both agency and salaried (ane even amazingly the hourly paid ) they’ve been tearing about knocking several hours off trip times for years in order to gain an hour of ‘‘free’’ pay, running out the gate thinking they were winning the job n knock game, all they’ve done is establish a pattern of times they’re now going to struggle to extend, why do so many in our game shoot themselves in the foot so boringly frequently.
Amen to that, seen plenty of good jobs screwed by these types…
There’s some right dumb arses in this world and unfortunately 95% of them are drivers [emoji3064]
Juddian:
It’s times like these that will bite the rush round like their arse is on fire merchants, both agency and salaried (ane even amazingly the hourly paid ) they’ve been tearing about knocking several hours off trip times for years in order to gain an hour of ‘‘free’’ pay, running out the gate thinking they were winning the job n knock game, all they’ve done is establish a pattern of times they’re now going to struggle to extend, why do so many in our game shoot themselves in the foot so boringly frequently.
Drivers don’t plan the routes. When my shift is a ‘drive a pre loaded truck to a place within 80- 100 miles where it will be unloaded within 30 mins. of arrival the drive back to the yard and that’ s it’’ what am I supposed to do - set the CC to 35 mph?
ETS:
Drivers don’t plan the routes. When my shift is a ‘drive a pre loaded truck to a place within 80- 100 miles where it will be unloaded within 30 mins. of arrival the drive back to the yard and that’ s it’’ what am I supposed to do - set the CC to 35 mph?
Drivers don’t plan the routes but drivers are the ones who choose to be shooting out the gate 10 minutes after getting the keys because they don’t bother doing proper checks and checking their loads are secure, like wise they’re the ones shooting back seconds after the last pallet has gone on because they decide that securing it would take time they could be at home. Hell I used to work with one guy on agency where I am who was so bad that on the number plate holders with the two tabs at the top he’d only put the numberplate behind one of them so he could save 2 seconds. It came as no surprise that a week before he was due to be on full time he turned up at security having forgotten to put his fifth wheel dog clip in and as agency that meant permanent ban. 2 years on he’s still never been back even in the peak period when they were struggling for drivers.
There’s no need to set the CC to 35MPH, most of the difference in the times it takes to do the runs is when you’re in the yard at the beginning and end of shift and when you’re at your destination tipping and reloading or doing a trailer swap. Where I’m at they plan 30 minutes at the start of the shift for getting keys, paperwork, doing your checks, hooking up the trailer and checking the load is secure, 15 minutes for a trailer check if you’re picking up an empty trailer at your changeover or half an hour if it’s got a load on even if that’s empty pallets, 30 minutes at the end of the shift to fuel up unit, give it a wash, park up and hand back keys and paperwork. And if you do it properly without rushing around like Usain Bolt when you’re doing it it takes that. Usually there’s a queue at the pumps and wash so it takes longer at the end of the shift.
It can be on a contract by contract basis or an agency can specify to clients that they only deal with minimum 8 hours. I guess the end of Swedish Derogation may mean quite a bit of renegotiating.
It seems to me that sometimes clients can take the attitude that if they have to pay parity rates, then they wish to claw back some by sending drivers home early. It just depends if they can find an agency willing to consider that.
The Swedish Derogation being repealed seems like a positive development. It will be interesting to see how things develop at places like Tesco, where the warehouses run with a large percentage of agency staff doing the picking. The practice was to put them on Swedish Derogation after 12 weeks to avoid parity pay. Now, will they just dispose of staff after 12 weeks? Difficult to say, but the constant supply of EEs is going to go at some point, so it looks as if practices will have to change.
Noremac:
It can be on a contract by contract basis or an agency can specify to clients that they only deal with minimum 8 hours. I guess the end of Swedish Derogation may mean quite a bit of renegotiating.
It seems to me that sometimes clients can take the attitude that if they have to pay parity rates, then they wish to claw back some by sending drivers home early. It just depends if they can find an agency willing to consider that.
The Swedish Derogation being repealed seems like a positive development. It will be interesting to see how things develop at places like Tesco, where the warehouses run with a large percentage of agency staff doing the picking. The practice was to put them on Swedish Derogation after 12 weeks to avoid parity pay. Now, will they just dispose of staff after 12 weeks? Difficult to say, but the constant supply of EEs is going to go at some point, so it looks as if practices will have to change.
It’s the same contract (company). I’ve been at this one since end of Feb, that’s longer than 12 weeks, if this was it it should’ve happened at the start of June, if it’s 12 weeks from April 6th then it’s too early. Besides didn’t they postpone the whole Swedish parity thing/LTD scrapping until next year because of Covid?
I spoke to one of the lads in the warehouse a few days ago, he’s with the same agency that I’m with, he said they don’t get paid 8 hours if let go early - they only get paid what they work be it 6 or 5 hours. Sometimes they tell them to do some cleaning to fill an extra hour if they have very few items to pick that day so yeah it could be worse. I know that’s one reason warehouses LOVE agency staff - they can not only not give them work every day but send them early when the work is done to save more £££ and to prevent them from screwing around on the job they monitor their performance and if they don’t meet the target rate they get a talk or two and then good bye, next
yes I’m guaranteed 9 hrs but I was shown a form they wanted you to sign to forgo the 9 hr guarantee if you went home early ( mindboggling ) , but the only time I get anywhere 6/8 hrs would be a sat running in , and have always been paid the 9 hrs even if it’s a 2/3 hr shift .
ETS:
It’s the same contract (company). I’ve been at this one since end of Feb, that’s longer than 12 weeks, if this was it it should’ve happened at the start of June, if it’s 12 weeks from April 6th then it’s too early. Besides didn’t they postpone the whole Swedish parity thing/LTD scrapping until next year because of Covid?
If you’d already been there 12 weeks by 6th April you should have been on same terms as full timers from day one, 6th April. Swedish derogation has nothing to do with the Ltd company thing. The ending of the Swedish Derogation on 6th April 2020 was announced by the government on 17th December 2018 - a day I remember rejoicing as I’d been campaigning for some time to get it repealed as it made the whole point of the agency workers regs, to give agency workers equal rights as permanent, worthless while it existed.
ETS:
It’s the same contract (company). I’ve been at this one since end of Feb, that’s longer than 12 weeks, if this was it it should’ve happened at the start of June, if it’s 12 weeks from April 6th then it’s too early. Besides didn’t they postpone the whole Swedish parity thing/LTD scrapping until next year because of Covid?
If you’d already been there 12 weeks by 6th April you should have been on same terms as full timers from day one, 6th April. Swedish derogation has nothing to do with the Ltd company thing. The ending of the Swedish Derogation on 6th April 2020 was announced by the government on 17th December 2018 - a day I remember rejoicing as I’d been campaigning for some time to get it repealed as it made the whole point of the agency workers regs, to give agency workers equal rights as permanent, worthless while it existed.
Yep. An EU law designed to help workers that our Gov and the Swedes got an exemption from.
Just as they practically ignore the WTD, again designed to help workers against unscrupulous employers.
But, depending on exactly what happens, our businesses won’t be saddled with these laws post Brexit. Just repeal them all so we can be more “competitive”!
Still, once we “take back control” of our borders, we won’t have East EU citizens taking up work here. We’ll have Ukranians and others from even cheaper labour pools coming here. Gotta keep our businesses “competitive” after all.
Despite the fact that Swedish Derogation has been repealed, it is still the case that temporary staff are not guaranteed hours unless it is written in the contract. If there is no work, apparently the company is within its rights to tell staff to go home unpaid. This seems to be the case even when a company has decided to run with a large proportion of agency staff. The way I see it the only reason that this method of employing staff works for companies is the huge oversupply of labour, where if ten go one week, another ten come in to replace them and on it goes.
It seems to me one of the main reasons for running with a high proportion of agency is so staff can easily be disposed of and also enforcing extreme productivity targets is easier. Amazon actually pay off permanent staff because they are not productive enough anymore (or rather have grown wise to the bluff) and it is easier to give them a lump sum to disappear.
I spoke to one of the perm drivers, he told me they’re trying to get them (old timers) to re-sign new contracts @ 30 hrs/week which he said would be £500 less (per month, I assume) and 6 days less paid annual holiday. The new normal?
As a permanent driver I’d happily sign a contract where I work at 30 hours. It would mean overtime after 30 hours! Yeah I’d lose out if ever on the sick, but hey swings and roundabouts.
) they’ve been tearing about knocking several hours off trip times for years in order to gain an hour of ‘‘free’’ pay, running out the gate thinking they were winning the job n knock game, all they’ve done is establish a pattern of times they’re now going to struggle to extend, why do so many in our game shoot themselves in the foot so boringly frequently.