Prospects in the trucking industry

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Theres talk of an increase in the NMW. Well our wages arent about to increase. I asked our agency if there was any chance of a rise. He said they need £2 over our hourly rate, if that increases, their rates will have to increase to the customer. The customer will then move agencies.
Without drivers all sticking together, which wont happen, were doomed to fall behind in the wages dept.
Very few large companies are taking on full time staff. They love agencies and the flexibility they bring, but theyll drop their current agency like a hot potato if it dares to ask for an increase, and call up one of the many others. In the 7yrs Ive been agencying Ive got to know quite a few of the local lads and often think of trying to get us all together to migrate to whichever agency pays the better money, but I realise that most of them have mortgages to pay/kids/loans etc and it wouldnt work. They couldnt do the inevitable few hard weeks. We have to face facts, we are destined to be paid not much above minimum wage. An increase to £7 an hour NMW is a good thing but I doubt it will have an upward push on our wages. Ive got 6yrs for retirement to go and Ill tough it out, but my advice to anyone thinking of a "career" in being a driver would be dont be daft. Get a job where you`re worth something…not this.

Years can go by on this job, you can be accident free, you can keep a clean motor, reverse blind side first time every time, etc etc but nobody even notices until you have a bad day…and when things go wrong boy do they go wrong! The potential is huge. Yet we are virtually worthless to employers.
I did a bit of steel haulage last year, trombone trailers, over lengths, loads which frankly, slightly frightened me! The going rate for this dirty/wet/dusty/hot/cold/physically hard…health and safety nightmare of a demanding job is
£7-50ph. (£8-50 s/e rate).

I had to decline any further work at this company because you just cant justify it. They havent gone out of business because i dont go in there any more, they just got someone else.
Ive told ADR Ill only do trunking now. No shop deliveries. No steel. No shunting. Nothing, that requires anything but the minimum input from me.
My own little stand against the way things are. Its worked ok up to now anyway.

So gentlemen, this is what 38yrs of HGV experience is worth. I know some on here like to think they`re worth a whole lot more but in the real world its not the case.

Driver shortage? I can`t think why!

2

Every now and again you get some great posts on TNUK and this one is up there with the best.

3

Couldnt agree more with cheekymonkey, not the job it used to be and wages have in real terms gone down along with the conditions, its all about bums on seats and so therefore you/me as a driver are nothing to a lot of firms and are treated with contempt, some firms I know of do treat drivers ok but they are the exception to the rule.
In my opinion things will only get worse!

4

Listening to Question time last night and the Arch Bishop of York (who spoke quite a bit of sense) said that he had seen a report by the guy who first introduced the concept of the minimum wage, that if it had kept up with inflation etc the minimum wage would now be around £19 per hour.
Now the figure seems a bit (lot) higher than I would have guessed but even if it is only half way true what does that say for truck drivers wages?
I have been retired for 6 years now and I see drivers post on here often that they are earning less now than I did when i finished.
Even if the MW is increased to £7 per hour it still means those on it working a 49 hr week will still only earn £280 before stoppages .
Most will still be claiming benefits of some description as that is still not enough for a family to live on so all that will really happen is the some of the benefits paid out will be reduced a bit, most MW workers will be no better off at all.

5

cheekymonkey:
Theres talk of an increase in the NMW. Well our wages arent about to increase. I asked our agency if there was any chance of a rise. He said they need £2 over our hourly rate, if that increases, their rates will have to increase to the customer. The customer will then move agencies.
Without drivers all sticking together, which wont happen, were doomed to fall behind in the wages dept.
Very few large companies are taking on full time staff. They love agencies and the flexibility they bring, but theyll drop their current agency like a hot potato if it dares to ask for an increase, and call up one of the many others. In the 7yrs Ive been agencying Ive got to know quite a few of the local lads and often think of trying to get us all together to migrate to whichever agency pays the better money, but I realise that most of them have mortgages to pay/kids/loans etc and it wouldnt work. They couldnt do the inevitable few hard weeks. We have to face facts, we are destined to be paid not much above minimum wage. An increase to £7 an hour NMW is a good thing but I doubt it will have an upward push on our wages. Ive got 6yrs for retirement to go and Ill tough it out, but my advice to anyone thinking of a "career" in being a driver would be dont be daft. Get a job where you`re worth something…not this.

Years can go by on this job, you can be accident free, you can keep a clean motor, reverse blind side first time every time, etc etc but nobody even notices until you have a bad day…and when things go wrong boy do they go wrong! The potential is huge. Yet we are virtually worthless to employers.
I did a bit of steel haulage last year, trombone trailers, over lengths, loads which frankly, slightly frightened me! The going rate for this dirty/wet/dusty/hot/cold/physically hard…health and safety nightmare of a demanding job is
£7-50ph. (£8-50 s/e rate).

I had to decline any further work at this company because you just cant justify it. They havent gone out of business because i dont go in there any more, they just got someone else.
Ive told ADR Ill only do trunking now. No shop deliveries. No steel. No shunting. Nothing, that requires anything but the minimum input from me.
My own little stand against the way things are. Its worked ok up to now anyway.

So gentlemen, this is what 38yrs of HGV experience is worth. I know some on here like to think they`re worth a whole lot more but in the real world its not the case.

Driver shortage? I can`t think why!

You sir, will be a loss to the industry upon retirement. A very well put post.

Some drivers are worth a fair bit more than most are paid, but there are far too many that cannot see this for various reasons. Whilst there are those prepared to do the steel and more specialist jobs for the money you outline, you will find employers and agencies alike will be MORE than happy to let them.

Drivers will never learn, and will always fall back on the usual excuses as to why they can’t say no.

6

I’m in the same boat around 35 years experience 6 years left to retirement but can’t be bothered anymore
As I’ve got a little savings and no mortgage get nothing of the state so shall spend what I have and make do no way am I gonna be run ragged by an agency for 7 or 8 pound an hour

7

SO who are these characters who run and jump through the hoops for £7ph then?

Surely they can’t be kids with fresh licences, because of the “must have 2 years experience” rule, not to mention “must be over 25 to work on agency” and “must have done 18 months driving in the last 2 years” etc etc.

There are many “client” yards that I, as an agency driver have never worked at, because I refuse point blank to be ■■■■■■ about on pay.
If I get offered 100 hours a week work, and only pick up 30 hours of it, then I’ve still got all the work I want. The 70 hours left on the shelf might be outside agencies, crappy jobs, stupid O’clock starts, or dodgy yards… The exact reason doesn’t matter why I turn it down - the base reason is that there’s enough work out there that I can.

Don’t believe all this bull about “Time’s are 'ard” lasting forever and ever Amen.
Recent economic data releases suggest the recovery is starting to gain traction. In september we’ll have a few less drivers around on agency because so many have hung up their keys.
I for one, expect rates to rise substantially above the rate of inflation over the next year, especially approaching Christmas 2014.
Yard Guv: “I need to book 3 of your drivers please. Usual rates.”

Agency Boss: “Sorry bud, all my drivers are out on other jobs at the moment, and my recruitment intray is empty, and has been for some time ever since I refused to up our rates paid to the actual drivers”.

Yard Guv: “Bugger. You’re the last one I could possibly ask. Everyone else is already expecting £20ph for working across the weekend, and I just ain’t paying it”.

Agency Boss: “Looks like you and me are going out of business over the next year then.”

Am I dreaming? Gonna jump ship back into full time work in the next 12 months because you’ve bought all the bull told you?
Maybe I’ve got this completely wrong, and the above conversation will continue along the lines of:-

"Ok. I’m only paying any agency £11ph tops. What about that guy with DD on his licence? - I don’t mean he drives double deckers either… Then there’s pancho with his doubtful immigration status… Ok, you never told me that. Gotta retain some plausible deniability here…"

8

Being fairly new into the industry myself (coming from a warehouse job) I’ve been driving hgvs now just under 2 year, I’m 25 and I earn a wage that to most people is a lot of money, even to myself. In a warehouse I earnt maybe 280-300 a week take home, I’m now earning double that and the lifestyle I can live now becsuse of that is incredible, I think telling people to not bother getting into the industry is ridiculous (that’s my opinion) I wouldn’t go back to warehouse work again I enjoy my job and it pays well, no matter how many times I hear the “it’s not what it used to be” line no wonder there’s hardily any newbies coming in because that many people put them off then “Johnny Foreigner” comes in and you winge at that to, can’t win!!!

9

The OP undoubtedly has a point, and in fact I’ve gone down a similar road myself, being now a night trunker who does as little as posible at work for maybe seven hours a night, tops. At the same time, I remember people sucking their teeth and telling me they wouldn’t recommend driving a truck because the job isn’t what it used to be … fifteen years ago. It’s always been better in the old days, and now I’m fifteen years into it I find myself telling new drivers how the industry’s really gone down the tubes in the last few years. :laughing:

10

Kevwall, have you got the time for a lifestyle though? Are you living with Ma and Pa still? Maybe getting some working tax credit top up? In short, we don’t have the full picture in order to assess your situation. Norfolknewbie posted on here some months ago about how well he was doing. So well in fact that he was able to save £150 a week. It only came out in the wash later that he was also getting £150 a week from the taxpayer… :wink:

11

DrivingMissDaisy:
Have you got the time for a lifestyle though? Are you living with Ma and Pa still? Maybe getting some working tax credit top up? In short, we don’t have the full picture in order to assess your situation. Norfolknewbie posted on here some months ago about how well he was doing. So well in fact that he was able to save £150 a week. It only came out in the wash later that he was also getting £150 a week from the taxpayer… :wink:

Who, me? I get nowt from the taxpayer, and I pay my own mortgage. We do have two incomes coming in though.

12

Rhythm Thief:

DrivingMissDaisy:
Have you got the time for a lifestyle though? Are you living with Ma and Pa still? Maybe getting some working tax credit top up? In short, we don’t have the full picture in order to assess your situation. Norfolknewbie posted on here some months ago about how well he was doing. So well in fact that he was able to save £150 a week. It only came out in the wash later that he was also getting £150 a week from the taxpayer… :wink:

Who, me? I get nowt from the taxpayer, and I pay my own mortgage. We do have two incomes coming in though.

No not you RT! I meant to quote Kevwall but had a senior moment… :slight_smile:

13

When I retired 11 years ago, I signed on agency, class two, for four years to make the adjustment from good earnings to pension easier. I did mainly Hiab work for builders merchants, and finished altogether 7 years ago.
I’ve just checked my last pay slip, from a now defunct agency, and my rate was £7.25 per hour, plus £5.00 per day travelling if I had to exceed 25 miles to get to work.
What happened since then? My pensions now total more than some of you guys seem to be getting!

14

emmerson2:
When I retired 11 years ago, I signed on agency, class two, for four years to make the adjustment from good earnings to pension easier. I did mainly Hiab work for builders merchants, and finished altogether 7 years ago.
I’ve just checked my last pay slip, from a now defunct agency, and my rate was £7.25 per hour, plus £5.00 per day travelling if I had to exceed 25 miles to get to work.
What happened since then? My pensions now total more than some of you guys seem to be getting!

We got flooded by cheap labour. Again.

15

Kevwall:
Being fairly new into the industry myself (coming from a warehouse job) I’ve been driving hgvs now just under 2 year, I’m 25 and I earn a wage that to most people is a lot of money, even to myself. In a warehouse I earnt maybe 280-300 a week take home, I’m now earning double that and the lifestyle I can live now becsuse of that is incredible, I think telling people to not bother getting into the industry is ridiculous (that’s my opinion) I wouldn’t go back to warehouse work again I enjoy my job and it pays well, no matter how many times I hear the “it’s not what it used to be” line no wonder there’s hardily any newbies coming in because that many people put them off then “Johnny Foreigner” comes in and you winge at that to, can’t win!!!

Kev? Im glad youre enjoying the job. Yes, its not all bad. But youd better believe me, its NOT the job it was. Christ man, they paint yellow walkway lines on the tarmac between parking and the office because you and me are too stupid to get across the damned yard without them. Not only do they take your keys at RDC bays, they even forbid you to sit in the cab, because we are deemed to be stupid. Take DHLs poster campaign…beware of low sun in winter…it can dazzle! …Yes folks, like me, are you too so stupid that you never noticed that in winter the sun can get really low and bright and on occasion dazzle?
Just for the record, if you do get dazzled by the sun, reach up and pull down the visor, its situated just above the screen…that thing you look through at the front!

I wont go on, you get the point Im sure. That is, Stupid People get low wages.
I not saying we ARE stupid, Im saying we are treated as stupid and believe me we werent treated that way a few years ago.

16

cheekymonkey:

Kevwall:
Being fairly new into the industry myself (coming from a warehouse job) I’ve been driving hgvs now just under 2 year, I’m 25 and I earn a wage that to most people is a lot of money, even to myself. In a warehouse I earnt maybe 280-300 a week take home, I’m now earning double that and the lifestyle I can live now becsuse of that is incredible, I think telling people to not bother getting into the industry is ridiculous (that’s my opinion) I wouldn’t go back to warehouse work again I enjoy my job and it pays well, no matter how many times I hear the “it’s not what it used to be” line no wonder there’s hardily any newbies coming in because that many people put them off then “Johnny Foreigner” comes in and you winge at that to, can’t win!!!

Kev? Im glad youre enjoying the job. Yes, its not all bad. But youd better believe me, its NOT the job it was. Christ man, they paint yellow walkway lines on the tarmac between parking and the office because you and me are too stupid to get across the damned yard without them. Not only do they take your keys at RDC bays, they even forbid you to sit in the cab, because we are deemed to be stupid. Take DHLs poster campaign…beware of low sun in winter…it can dazzle! …Yes folks, like me, are you too so stupid that you never noticed that in winter the sun can get really low and bright and on occasion dazzle?
Just for the record, if you do get dazzled by the sun, reach up and pull down the visor, its situated just above the screen…that thing you look through at the front!

I wont go on, you get the point Im sure. That is, Stupid People get low wages.
I not saying we ARE stupid, Im saying we are treated as stupid and believe me we werent treated that way a few years ago.

You’re right of course.

But I think a lot of it is more ‘we are terrified we might be sued, so will assume everyone is a total ■■■■■■ to cover our own arses.’ Some companies are so bad, I’m surprised they haven’t got a procedure for drivers on the site that need a dump, or for ‘how to eat a sandwich on site, without choking yourself’.

With regard to pay, just take a look at a lot of the posts on here. Lots that think the pay is OK, long, long hours are no problem, Forgotten what the missus looks like? That’s transport mate. Those that don’t mind working for free, despite having the correct licence for the job. Lots that think that if you don’t spend 70+ hours a week working and another 20 polishing someone else’s truck, you aren’t a ‘proper trucker’.

You have to respect yourself and what you do before the employers and/or agencies will respect you. Prepared to work for 7 beans an hour? 'No problem, ‘cos if you think that’s all you’re worth, we certainly won’t be arguing.’

17

DrivingMissDaisy:
Kevwall, have you got the time for a lifestyle though? Are you living with Ma and Pa still? Maybe getting some working tax credit top up? In short, we don’t have the full picture in order to assess your situation. Norfolknewbie posted on here some months ago about how well he was doing. So well in fact that he was able to save £150 a week. It only came out in the wash later that he was also getting £150 a week from the taxpayer… :wink:

Yep I have a lifestyle I see my friends regular my family etc and I have a mortgage. My mum passes away 3 years ago with the money I went and invested in my licence, that earnt me the deposit to purchase a house and a nice car and be comfortable with the lifestyle I life, always have money can help my family out when they need it etc!

18

Truckulent:

cheekymonkey:

Kevwall:
Being fairly new into the industry myself (coming from a warehouse job) I’ve been driving hgvs now just under 2 year, I’m 25 and I earn a wage that to most people is a lot of money, even to myself. In a warehouse I earnt maybe 280-300 a week take home, I’m now earning double that and the lifestyle I can live now becsuse of that is incredible, I think telling people to not bother getting into the industry is ridiculous (that’s my opinion) I wouldn’t go back to warehouse work again I enjoy my job and it pays well, no matter how many times I hear the “it’s not what it used to be” line no wonder there’s hardily any newbies coming in because that many people put them off then “Johnny Foreigner” comes in and you winge at that to, can’t win!!!

Kev? Im glad youre enjoying the job. Yes, its not all bad. But youd better believe me, its NOT the job it was. Christ man, they paint yellow walkway lines on the tarmac between parking and the office because you and me are too stupid to get across the damned yard without them. Not only do they take your keys at RDC bays, they even forbid you to sit in the cab, because we are deemed to be stupid. Take DHLs poster campaign…beware of low sun in winter…it can dazzle! …Yes folks, like me, are you too so stupid that you never noticed that in winter the sun can get really low and bright and on occasion dazzle?
Just for the record, if you do get dazzled by the sun, reach up and pull down the visor, its situated just above the screen…that thing you look through at the front!

I wont go on, you get the point Im sure. That is, Stupid People get low wages.
I not saying we ARE stupid, Im saying we are treated as stupid and believe me we werent treated that way a few years ago.

You’re right of course.

But I think a lot of it is more ‘we are terrified we might be sued, so will assume everyone is a total ■■■■■■ to cover our own arses.’ Some companies are so bad, I’m surprised they haven’t got a procedure for drivers on the site that need a dump, or for ‘how to eat a sandwich on site, without choking yourself’.

With regard to pay, just take a look at a lot of the posts on here. Lots that think the pay is OK, long, long hours are no problem, Forgotten what the missus looks like? That’s transport mate. Those that don’t mind working for free, despite having the correct licence for the job. Lots that think that if you don’t spend 70+ hours a week working and another 20 polishing someone else’s truck, you aren’t a ‘proper trucker’.

You have to respect yourself and what you do before the employers and/or agencies will respect you. Prepared to work for 7 beans an hour? 'No problem, ‘cos if you think that’s all you’re worth, we certainly won’t be arguing.’

Thats right. If £7 for 1 hour is poor, how can anyone justify doing 70 times that in a week?
Imagine if a guy you hardly know says he could do with some help, itll take about an hour. You drive a van across town and carry in a few boxes, come back. 1 hour. He gives you £7. Youd punch his nose yes? Of course.
We as drivers are saying, yes but its ok because he`s offering us 60-70 times that! EVERY WEEK!

19

Hold on a second though. All you fellas that are doing 7 hour night trunks and saying “it’s not like the old days”. Are ye trying to say that 30 year ago you were also working 7 hour shifts and coining it?
Bull! The jobs 100 times easier now. Better trucks, better roads, but same poor wages. And it’s true, driving was never and will never be well paid. The one and only way to earn good wages as a driver is to put in the hours.
It’s about finding a happy balance.
When looking for my current job, I didn’t ring an agency, or go work for someone with a gazillion lorries. I made a short list if small outfits close to home that I would like to work for. I now drive one of 5 lorries in our yard, do the odd repairs, the odd night out and all for a wage that I’m happy with. I don’t count hours or know what my hourly rate is, when the work is there I do it, when it’s not I go home. And I’m a person not a number.

Don’t come on with this poor truck drivers, poor me, poor us, industries ■■■■■■ crap. Lots of us still enjoying driving and I for one wouldnt want to do anything else. Paddle your own canoe when it comes to work and don’t worry about everyone else and drivers would be a much happier bunch.

Poor me, they took my keys at the rdc. Now I can’t enjoy my DVD, with the night heater on and the soup warming on the gas stove because the windows up and I need ignition to let it down. I hate whiney truck drivers.

20

I don’t count hours or know what my hourly rate is,

your boss must love you!
every where I have worked I have known exactly what my hourly rate was, and how many hours I had put in, along with a fairly accurate idea of what stoppages to expect.