Unless i’m mistaken and ailens landed and got in the trucks and jack knifed them, then they where all driven by drivers who ‘thought’ they where ok.
The same drivers probably also left their engine brakes/retarders on. Because they “thought” that was a good idea. 
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
It’s the lack of confidence of todays so called proffessional lorry drivers that cause problems on the roads.the thought that you might cause an accident, makes it more likely that you will. If you have the confidence that you won’t cause an accident because you know what your doing behind the wheel of a 44 tonne artic your a lot safer than somebody who is nervous because the road conditions have changed.
the more heavy vehicles that use a lane with some snow on the quicker it gets cleared.
Stop ■■■■■ footing about and get driving.
DaBenji, sorry to say it but your the one giving us a bad name by driving like a nervous wreck on a motorway not the guys who overtook you to get to where they wanted to go, confidently, safely and quickly.
i have to agree with this!
its a first Okey-Didley-Dokely 
I can go faster than anyone on here so there! Er stopping it aint quite so good but I,ll solve that one when I need too.Look at me boss I got that job done for ya just as fast as when it,s dry and sunny . Aint I good boss? aint I boss ? Do ya Love me Boss ? Will ya pay me more boss?
It is very unlikely that two LGV drivers will read the road and act EXACTLY the same.
Not only are they likely to have different levels of experience, but they are just as likely to have different loads and vehicles as well.
What might be the ‘right way’ for one, will not necessarily be the ‘right way’ for another.
To make a judgement on who is right or wrong in a particular situation, one would have to be there and know all the info above.
DABenji:
Excuse this rant but its really p****d me off today/Why are there some drivers out there that no matter what the conditions they have to be going flat out? take this morning for instance i started out in swindon truck stop at 3am headed off down the m4 towards london, anyone out at that time would have seen the state on the roads, but even with the treacherous conditions there were still some so called professional drivers who decided that the between 35 and 40 that i was doing due to lack of visibility and grip was way to slow for them, barging they’re way past everyone throwing snow and sludge up into everyones windows just to gain a few extra minutes.
So to all those glorified wheel attendants i say “Have a bit of sense for all our sakes, we are supposed to be highly trained and sensible but you small minority are giving the rest of us a bad name”
Could not agree more with you. Had the same.
MrReliable:
Driving on snow is all down to one thing EXPERIENCE
I would very much doubt that. I think its true that experience helps, but succesfull driving in snow is often due to more physical factors. Ice road truckers can afford to slide about etc as they don;t have traffic alongside them, also they set off at set intervals. One of their most succesful drivers was also the youngest and least experienced. At the end of the day if you hit sheet ice and loose traction it doesn’t matter if you turn into , out of, brake accelerat or do whatever you like, you are just going to go with the momentum of the truck. Seeing as we are one of the most densley populated countries in the world, when we have snow and ice it doesn’t suprise me that we have problems. Nor does the fact that Norway, Sweden etc. seem to cope well as we are not comparable to them.
MrReliable:
what really grates me about this site is there is always one expert who is not happy with something they have seen during the course of thier working day,
I know where you’re coming from Bro. They have the cheek on a discussion forum to want to discuss an issue they think about. What we need ere is good old fashioned Chinese style democracy !!!
Didn’t slip up there did i? !!!
i went to the hugh the polar bear roland school of truck driving so dnt matter wot ne of u say im the daddy when it comes to driving in the snow,ho says a tv licance aint worth the money stanley baxters gave me a few tips as well still cant get round them bends as quick as him tho on hell drivers 
merc0447:
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
It’s the lack of confidence of todays so called proffessional lorry drivers that cause problems on the roads.the thought that you might cause an accident, makes it more likely that you will. If you have the confidence that you won’t cause an accident because you know what your doing behind the wheel of a 44 tonne artic your a lot safer than somebody who is nervous because the road conditions have changed.
the more heavy vehicles that use a lane with some snow on the quicker it gets cleared.
Stop ■■■■■ footing about and get driving.
DaBenji, sorry to say it but your the one giving us a bad name by driving like a nervous wreck on a motorway not the guys who overtook you to get to where they wanted to go, confidently, safely and quickly.
i have to agree with this!
its a first Okey-Didley-Dokely
Are you two reading the same news reports, and seeing the same thing as me?
We are having (acording to the press) the worst weather we have had for 18 or 20 years. We’ve only had the extra heavy 44 tonners in general use on the road for about 10 years. A quick guess without working out the figures tells me that many drivers will not have experienced weather like this before 
I’m currently waiting on figures being released from the HA to see if it was nervous or confident truck drivers that jacknifed and blocked off roads, i’ll let you know as soon as i get the info back !!!
I suppose it all boils down to what you feel is safe, I guess everyone’s skill varies as does their ability to judge what they can and can’t do.
Personally, I’d’ve felt safer at 35-40 given what DABenji said about the conditions, possibly a little more (45), Bet it takes a lot to stop thirty something tonnes on a slippery road! And when you can’t see well, you’ll be needing all the help you can get !
What gets to me is people in cars doing 30 on a duel carigeway and 10-15 in town, that in itself imo can be dangerous, especially if you need a little momentum to get up a hill I agree with Rog, people are (in my opinion, too) scared of driving in snow / ice because they don’t know what to do. I was never shown how to drive in these conditions, I’ve learned over the years and I thoroughly enjoy it when the “wimps” (as I call them) aren’t getting in the way
If you ask me, fair play DABenji - you weren’t doing a stupidly low speed, isn’t it fair to say that a proffesional driver would drive to his (or her) ability in the given conditions and avoid an accident or inconvenience to other road users 
Each to their own and if you can drive safely at higher speeds, good for you - as I said, we’re meant to drive to our own ability (not that I feel DABenji lacks any).
Lucy:
The same drivers probably also left their engine brakes/retarders on. Because they “thought” that was a good idea.
I always use my jake in whatever conditions. I was taught to do it on the winter roads and continue to do so wherever I am. As long as you use your wits you have full control.
Anyway, it’s something of a joke when people slate one another on here because of different practices. So one doesn’t feel safe driving on the limiter in snow, and he considers someone with the confidence and experience to do so to be wrong, and vice versa.
There is no right or wrong way, there is only the safe way. If you are happy to keep it nailed then what is wrong with that?
The comment about if the people being passed were my wife/children/family is a nonsense. If it were that bad my family would have more sense than to be out in the first place. It is all very well to be cautious, but the best caution is to stay at home until either the majority of people have done their commute, or until things clear up. To try to use that as a weapon to demonstrate how much better/safer/more conscientious you are than others is just unpleasant.
Some of us live with snow for half the year, literally. Do you think it slows us down? Does this make you safer? I really think not!
bobthedog:
I always use my jake in whatever conditions. I was taught to do it on the winter roads and continue to do so wherever I am. As long as you use your wits you have full control.
For the benefit of me and others like me who will probably not have your experience of driving in the snow Bob, could you share with us the advantages of using your ‘jake brake’ in the snow or on ice ?
jake brake is the same as a retarder/ engine brake, use that to slow instead of brakes
biggusdickusgb:
jake brake is the same as a retarder/ engine brake, use that to slow instead of brakes
Yeah, i know what one is and exactly what it does. What i don’t understand is…what are the benefits of doing this in snow or on ice?
I strongly suspect it helps to have double drive ayy Rob ? As you know that’s rare here.
The brakes will lock up on ice and the extra length wheelbase here means they will swing on you really easily. Bear in mind that we have twin drive tractors. That said, we also run lower weights on the drive axles here so it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Having 11 tonnes pressing down means more potential traction, but you are right about the point you made Dafmad (is that you Dave?)
Engine braking is gentler than air, and you get immediate notice if you are sliding, because the engine noise will let you know. Also, the tractor will kick a little instead of the trailer coming around you. With the pedal, the first notice you might have is the bang when the trailer swings into you. The jake is instant when it releases, and you can go from braking to accelerating to pull yourself out of mischief in a split second. The 1/2 second lag on air brakes is enough time to go from a potential problem to a real problem. On the winter roads, the footbrake is virtually ignored until you get to shunting somewhere. When I first started going up north, I hit the snowbanks more than once by dabbing the pedal.
Mike-C:
biggusdickusgb:
jake brake is the same as a retarder/ engine brake, use that to slow instead of brakesYeah, i know what one is and exactly what it does. What i don’t understand is…what are the benefits of doing this in snow or on ice?
Its to brake the drive axle only, so you can slide off into the scenery. 
Well, I feel safe on snow and ice, but i am very aware that people around me are possibly not as confident, so I do try to consider their nerves.
But Friday I was coming down the A34 from M40 to Abingdon and traffic reports were saying EXTREME snow etc etc and everyone started slamming on brakes at the Shell Stn, so I looked into distance and nothing was in the outside lane… 
Just a blanket of fresh snow, so I went out there and went past all the other vehicles, cars vans and trucks quite happily sitting at 40 - 50 mph, looked in mirror and noticed that 2 other trucks had followed me out there, we just kept on going while everyone else sat in the inside lane watching with disbelief, THEN!!! I spot a fellow trucker sitting in the inside lane Q, leaning out of his window waving his arms frantically motioning slow down■■? As I went past he gave me and the following vehicles a horn and big flash of his top-bar, WTF, There was nothing and I mean nothing in the outside lane…for miles, except for me and some virgin snow, ok so I drive a rigid, so I have an advantage
bobthedog:
The brakes will lock up on ice and the extra length wheelbase here means they will swing on you really easily. Bear in mind that we have twin drive tractors. That said, we also run lower weights on the drive axles here so it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Having 11 tonnes pressing down means more potential traction, but you are right about the point you made Dafmad (is that you Dave?)Engine braking is gentler than air, and you get immediate notice if you are sliding, because the engine noise will let you know. Also, the tractor will kick a little instead of the trailer coming around you. With the pedal, the first notice you might have is the bang when the trailer swings into you. The jake is instant when it releases, and you can go from braking to accelerating to pull yourself out of mischief in a split second. The 1/2 second lag on air brakes is enough time to go from a potential problem to a real problem. On the winter roads, the footbrake is virtually ignored until you get to shunting somewhere. When I first started going up north, I hit the snowbanks more than once by dabbing the pedal.
As someone who has had a near fatal (for me) jacknife - not trailer swing, a proper jacknife - I can assure you that it is not an experience I wish to repeat.
Dabbing the brakes will cause you problems, I agree. Smooth braking through all axles will not.
In the extreme low temperatures over there and in many parts of Northern Europe you pass through the 15 degree “danger zone” we are stuck in permenantly over here (when it snows/freezes, that is). Kyrbo has made an excellent post explaining this if you search for it. In those conditions you are probably safe to use retarders again, but I fail to see how braking from the unit only - the classic cause of true jacknife - is a good idea in this country.
Double drive may well be what makes the difference…All I can say is that when I drove an ERF with Jake Brakes we were warned to keep off them in slippery conditions, even in the wet when empty. Having seen what was left of one truck after the driver ignored that advice, I’m inclined to agree.
Basic laws of physics back up the above. Think about it.
Just when I thought it was safe to presume this was over and done.
I can’t say much more than I have. Double drive does, indeed make a difference, and possibly the fact that you have shorter lag times on the air brakes in Europe. I can’t say because I don’t remember.
But jacknife or trailer swing can happen at any speed. Either one is possible at 3 mph or 53 mph. That, I am sorry to say, is a fact of life for anyone. It can happen for a number of reasons and, largely, comes down to luck. One member on this site jacknifed week before last ont the TransCanada at 65 mph, whilst travelling in a straight line and not trying to do anything other than maintain that line. He says it was weird to see the speed dropping and the centre ditch approaching, but he was lucky. He is still with us with no damage to himself.
Funnily enough, many people say you should never use jakes in ice or snow, but the fact remains that you have instant control over your slowing with the engine brake which you don’t have with air. You can hear when things have gone slack and can control it if you are careful, and if you are lucky.
As for the 15 degree window of danger. Do you think we don’t get that here? The last 5 days have been between -3 and +4, and we have much more snow here, along with a decent few doses of freezing rain.
The OP says that people who are confident in snow and ice are inferior to those who are not. That is what I was posting about, but the engine brake comment was another incidental.
Jake brake, exhaust brake, cruise control all a no no in snow.
Monday night going south M6/M42/m40, were probably some of the worst driving conditions I have experianced in the UK for many years, we saw the assole who wanted to beat the Q formed coming off the M6 onto the M42,who spun out, and used the central barrier as a brake, many drivers, both commercial, and private, who’s bottle had gone who felt safe to travel 10 yards behind the vehicle in front at 35 MPH, now they are the mad buggers in my opinion, then experianced drivers who drove at a higher speed on the virgin snow who put 400 yards between each other, traveling in lane 2/3, Now they are the professionals,reduced journey time but by mins, rather than hours. not a problem on a white out motorway, but drive a country lane that dips up and down in freezing temps, with a risk of black ice, and you can all q up behind me.
30 years with the only serious RTA being someone run up my arse, then cross 4 lanes, speaks volumes,and if you think the weather we have just had was testing try crossing eastern europe in freezing conditions, when winter diesel waxes, and the engine runs all night.
Most UK drivers because of our regular climate, cannot adapt to proper winter driving, how many who have posted on this thread have ever put snow chains on, or know how to do it.