Port Talbot

[norfolkinclue1]

Carryfast:

war1974:
well I am out of this one now - as with almost any other thread I disagree with carryfast on all that will happen is he will grind me down to the point I can no longer argue.

More like you don’t want to go on record with an answer to that question of are you supportive of the removal of cabotage restrictions or not.Bearing in mind that the issue in either case is the simple choice between protectionist trade policy, as in the case of US type barriers,against cheap steel imports, v free markets.

More like he doesn’t want to attempt to reason with you and your utter inability to not only understand basic economics in the real world beyond your curtains, but your constant Google keyword search based, garbage ridden speeches, that’s speeches, not discussion, not arguing and most certainly not debating. Just tragic agenda driven platforming.
Page after page of statement and challenge, hell, even the above quotes show you up to be an insecure, desperate attempt at a know it all. Even when someone says they are bored of your “approach” to debate you have to try and have a final dig because they don’t buy into your fantasy world. Your posts constantly reference the same things, the same political agenda of hate that prevent you from stating anything of any real value.
The constant link quoting on every subject known to man but with the same base agenda is getting pretty boring. It may surprise you but when people constantly, and expect to, give up on subjects that you decide to infest on here, it doesn’t make you right, far far from it.
Even now your basic grasp of real world economics is so twisted and wrong it’s alarming, all hate , all someone else’s fault…usually thatcher in some way of course.
Every time I take an interest in something on here and I see your name pop up I know I can give up posting anything of any worth if it’s not what you are telling everyone to think and instead I can sit back and watch the pages of utter nonsense unfold.
Carryfast, the real world outside your room is a big place, full of good, bad, wonderful and evil, it’s a shame you seem to think you not only know it all, but that all others know nothing .
I hope others continue the discussion, just try to scroll down when the dictator posts his quotes and rehashed wiki stuff.
My opinion, I thinks it bloody tragic with what’s happening to the steel industry and the potential job losses, however I don’t think in the modern age any country has the right to an industry but they should have the right to fight to keep it, clearly the Chinese feel otherwise and I fear they will win this one.
Of course all of this could have been prevented if the entire planet was paid the same wage, bought the same things at the same price made by the same people at the same time and had no aspiration, no individuality, no religion, no thoughts and followed the same ideology/leader/dictator but that would leave someone on here with nothing to do, least of all moan about thatcher and reference hitler…

[carryfast]

Norfolkinclue1:
More like he doesn’t want to attempt to reason with you and your utter inability to not only understand basic economics in the real world beyond your curtains, but your constant Google keyword search based, garbage ridden speeches, that’s speeches, not discussion, not arguing and most certainly not debating. Just tragic agenda driven platforming.
Page after page of statement and challenge, hell, even the above quotes show you up to be an insecure, desperate attempt at a know it all. Even when someone says they are bored of your “approach” to debate you have to try and have a final dig because they don’t buy into your fantasy world. Your posts constantly reference the same things, the same political agenda of hate that prevent you from stating anything of any real value.
The constant link quoting on every subject known to man but with the same base agenda is getting pretty boring. It may surprise you but when people constantly, and expect to, give up on subjects that you decide to infest on here, it doesn’t make you right, far far from it.
Even now your basic grasp of real world economics is so twisted and wrong it’s alarming, all hate , all someone else’s fault…usually thatcher in some way of course.
Of course all of this could have been prevented if the entire planet was paid the same wage, bought the same things at the same price made by the same people at the same time and had no aspiration, no individuality, no religion, no thoughts and followed the same ideology/leader/dictator but that would leave someone on here with nothing to do, least of all moan about thatcher and reference hitler…

Or in other words more Socialist bs saying that the way to fix the problem is with more zb Socialism as opposed to Nationalism.Using typical Socialist rhetoric calling for the gagging of anyone who doesn’t agree with your failed zbwit dictatorial workers of the world unite ideology.The inconvenient fact being that China is the end result of where that ideology takes the working class.

Or are you actually saying that Thatcher was right using a poor attempt at sarcasm to do it…In which case what’s the difference.

Meanwhile feel free to explain to all concerned the reasons,for your obvious objections,to my calls for US type trade barriers,against cheap Chinese steel imports.Oh wait see above.

[montytom]

The thing I am worried about is that if Port Talbot does shut down then once it does I can see the Chinese upping the price of steel as we will have no way of countering the price hikes

[franglais]

As a question has anyone seen any figures comparing the operating loss of £1m per day quoted, against the cost of having 15,000 (plus ancillary workers) unemployed? Not to mention being in a downward industrial spiral…

I`m asking if it would not make more sense for the Gov to pay out to support the steel industry rather than pay to have people sit around twiddling their thumbs? And we all know that unemployment has many hidden costs to health etc etc.

And as regards EU regs about Gov support for industry, I`m sure any COMPETENT politician can devise a way around that. That is after all their job! (yeah. ok, competent politician is an oxymoron).

[mike68]

The only hope is that the government takes on the running of the business in the short term whilst looking for a buyer, Port Talbot needs a massive investment program, its out of date and has been for 20 years or more.

Also there is no longer a large home market for steel all the raw materials have to be imported environmental costs are high so is energy health and safety and so on, wages have nothing to do with it, the workers could work for nothing and still the business would lose money.

I can see the plant being mothballed, the business is worthless at the moment, the government would pay the costs, this is the only viable option in the short term.

[norfolkinclue1]

Carryfast:

Norfolkinclue1:
More like he doesn’t want to attempt to reason with you and your utter inability to not only understand basic economics in the real world beyond your curtains, but your constant Google keyword search based, garbage ridden speeches, that’s speeches, not discussion, not arguing and most certainly not debating. Just tragic agenda driven platforming.
Page after page of statement and challenge, hell, even the above quotes show you up to be an insecure, desperate attempt at a know it all. Even when someone says they are bored of your “approach” to debate you have to try and have a final dig because they don’t buy into your fantasy world. Your posts constantly reference the same things, the same political agenda of hate that prevent you from stating anything of any real value.
The constant link quoting on every subject known to man but with the same base agenda is getting pretty boring. It may surprise you but when people constantly, and expect to, give up on subjects that you decide to infest on here, it doesn’t make you right, far far from it.
Even now your basic grasp of real world economics is so twisted and wrong it’s alarming, all hate , all someone else’s fault…usually thatcher in some way of course.
Of course all of this could have been prevented if the entire planet was paid the same wage, bought the same things at the same price made by the same people at the same time and had no aspiration, no individuality, no religion, no thoughts and followed the same ideology/leader/dictator but that would leave someone on here with nothing to do, least of all moan about thatcher and reference hitler…

Or in other words more Socialist bs saying that the way to fix the problem is with more zb Socialism as opposed to Nationalism.Using typical Socialist rhetoric calling for the gagging of anyone who doesn’t agree with your failed zbwit dictatorial workers of the world unite ideology.The inconvenient fact being that China is the end result of where that ideology takes the working class.

Or are you actually saying that Thatcher was right using a poor attempt at sarcasm to do it…In which case what’s the difference.

Meanwhile feel free to explain to all concerned the reasons,for your obvious objections,to my calls for US type trade barriers,against cheap Chinese steel imports.Oh wait see above.

I can only conclude that you are in fact mentally ill, I have posted no political view, only my sympathies for the state of the industry, I could not give a flying ■■■■ about thatcher, socialism, nationalism or any other ism, even your own very clear ism.
You need to read back through your posts, full of student level political drivel, constant blame on thatcher. My comment on age and work equality was tongue in cheek based on your constant moaning regarding free trade being a " race to the bottom", hence why it ended referencing your thatcher and hitler issues .
You can’t even display enough intelligence to differentiate between fact and opinion . I have no wish to “explain to all” any reasoning for something I have not said, yet more mental misquoting and baiting so people will listen to you, you are not the teacher in the class, more the strange one in the corner full of angst with no clue about the real world.

Where are my “obvious objections”? Where is my support for thatcher, where is my socialist statement of intent? Am I a socialist for wanting you to wind your neck in, stop boring people with you pseudo-intellectual Google searching and actually have a conversation rather than spend time surfing the net so you can constantly try to shout people’s thoughts and opinions down with your …ahem…knowledge.
The irony of the first paragraph in your response to me is so massive it’s insane, for you to accuse others of shouting down opinion summarises things on here.

Carry on Carryfast, it is, at a base level, amusing to read your hate filled rubbish, however do try to respond to what is said, as opposed to what you want to be said.
Bye bye to yet another relevant and important discussion…

I predict 10 pages, I’m off out for some popcorn, anyone want anything?

[carryfast]

mike68:
The only hope is that the government takes on the running of the business in the short term whilst looking for a buyer, Port Talbot needs a massive investment program, its out of date and has been for 20 years or more.

Also there is no longer a large home market for steel all the raw materials have to be imported environmental costs are high so is energy health and safety and so on, wages have nothing to do with it, the workers could work for nothing and still the business would lose money.

The home market for steel is low for the same reasons IE we import too many manufactured goods.However domestic production market share of the demand for steel we’ve got is also too low.In this case the question is simply the reasons for the difference between the fortunes of the German steel and manufacturing sectors in general v British.Bearing in mind that Germany is reliant on the same sources of raw materials to make steel.That difference can be explained by the fact that Germany applies trade barriers of one form or another even if only on the basis of German customers buy German wherever possible.Our industry obviously doesn’t enjoy the same loyalty.Which just leaves the option of proper trade barriers.Including in our trading relationship with the EU which at present is run by the Germans for the benefit of the Germans among others.

[carryfast]

Norfolkinclue1:
Carry on Carryfast, it is, at a base level, amusing to read your hate filled rubbish, however do try to respond to what is said, as opposed to what you want to be said.
Bye bye to yet another relevant and important discussion…

I’d guess that your reference and link between Nationalist economic policy and ‘hate’ among other personal attacks are a good enough clue to the motivation for your trolling of my posts.

On that note don’t blame me just because you obviously don’t have the intelligence to put any constructive points on the topic.Let alone know where you stand politically on the issue or maybe obviously you do in view of that typically expected association between Nationalist v hate in which case if the cap fits wear it.Sorting out the politics being the only way that this problem will get solved. .

[carryfast]

Franglais:
I`m asking if it would not make more sense for the Gov to pay out to support the steel industry rather than pay to have people sit around twiddling their thumbs? And we all know that unemployment has many hidden costs to health etc etc.

And as regards EU regs about Gov support for industry, I`m sure any COMPETENT politician can devise a way around that. That is after all their job! (yeah. ok, competent politician is an oxymoron).

We’ve been here loads of times before in the case of having to use public money to save collapsing industrial sectors.They’ve all failed for the same reason as the steel industry is failing now.IE economically suicidal open door trade policy in which domestic industry is wiped out by pointless excessive imports of stuff we can make for ourselves.

[toby1234abc]

Carryfast, you are one boring duffer, I feel sorry for the man sat next to you in the pub, your posts are like watching paint to dry .

[janos]

Norfolkinclue1:

Carryfast:

Norfolkinclue1:
More like he doesn’t want to attempt to reason with you and your utter inability to not only understand basic economics in the real world beyond your curtains, but your constant Google keyword search based, garbage ridden speeches, that’s speeches, not discussion, not arguing and most certainly not debating. Just tragic agenda driven platforming.
Page after page of statement and challenge, hell, even the above quotes show you up to be an insecure, desperate attempt at a know it all. Even when someone says they are bored of your “approach” to debate you have to try and have a final dig because they don’t buy into your fantasy world. Your posts constantly reference the same things, the same political agenda of hate that prevent you from stating anything of any real value.
The constant link quoting on every subject known to man but with the same base agenda is getting pretty boring. It may surprise you but when people constantly, and expect to, give up on subjects that you decide to infest on here, it doesn’t make you right, far far from it.
Even now your basic grasp of real world economics is so twisted and wrong it’s alarming, all hate , all someone else’s fault…usually thatcher in some way of course.
Of course all of this could have been prevented if the entire planet was paid the same wage, bought the same things at the same price made by the same people at the same time and had no aspiration, no individuality, no religion, no thoughts and followed the same ideology/leader/dictator but that would leave someone on here with nothing to do, least of all moan about thatcher and reference hitler…

Or in other words more Socialist bs saying that the way to fix the problem is with more zb Socialism as opposed to Nationalism.Using typical Socialist rhetoric calling for the gagging of anyone who doesn’t agree with your failed zbwit dictatorial workers of the world unite ideology.The inconvenient fact being that China is the end result of where that ideology takes the working class.

Or are you actually saying that Thatcher was right using a poor attempt at sarcasm to do it…In which case what’s the difference.

Meanwhile feel free to explain to all concerned the reasons,for your obvious objections,to my calls for US type trade barriers,against cheap Chinese steel imports.Oh wait see above.

I can only conclude that you are in fact mentally ill, I have posted no political view, only my sympathies for the state of the industry, I could not give a flying [zb] about thatcher, socialism, nationalism or any other ism, even your own very clear ism.
You need to read back through your posts, full of student level political drivel, constant blame on thatcher. My comment on age and work equality was tongue in cheek based on your constant moaning regarding free trade being a " race to the bottom", hence why it ended referencing your thatcher and hitler issues .
You can’t even display enough intelligence to differentiate between fact and opinion . I have no wish to “explain to all” any reasoning for something I have not said, yet more mental misquoting and baiting so people will listen to you, you are not the teacher in the class, more the strange one in the corner full of angst with no clue about the real world.

Where are my “obvious objections”? Where is my support for thatcher, where is my socialist statement of intent? Am I a socialist for wanting you to wind your neck in, stop boring people with you pseudo-intellectual Google searching and actually have a conversation rather than spend time surfing the net so you can constantly try to shout people’s thoughts and opinions down with your …ahem…knowledge.
The irony of the first paragraph in your response to me is so massive it’s insane, for you to accuse others of shouting down opinion summarises things on here.

Carry on Carryfast, it is, at a base level, amusing to read your hate filled rubbish, however do try to respond to what is said, as opposed to what you want to be said.
Bye bye to yet another relevant and important discussion…

I predict 10 pages, I’m off out for some popcorn, anyone want anything?

Great post…pic’n’mix for me pls.

[carryfast]

toby1234abc:
Carryfast, you are one boring duffer, I feel sorry for the man sat next to you in the pub, your posts are like watching paint to dry .

Maybe boring to you.But at least I’m putting forward solutions which is more than your pointless bollox there has done.

[maestegboy]

To rub salt in the wounds now China is going to add a tax to British steel imports!

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35945407

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35948432

[raymundo]

Carryfast:

toby1234abc:
Carryfast, you are one boring duffer, I feel sorry for the man sat next to you in the pub, your posts are like watching paint to dry .

Maybe boring to you.But at least I’m putting forward solutions which is more than your pointless bollox there has done.

Has Tata been on the phone yet asking for your help ?

[punchy_dan]

maestegboy:
To rub salt in the wounds now China is going to add a tax to British steel imports!

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35945407

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35948432

Ideal timing for us to Start taxing chinky steel arriving here .

[carryfast]

maestegboy:
To rub salt in the wounds now China is going to add a tax to British steel imports!

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35945407

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35948432

Time to stop appeasing this despotic bunch of Commy zb’s who we should never have got into a ‘trade’ relationship ( foreign aid scam going into China’s military build up ) to start with.

telegraph.co.uk/business/201 … war-looms/

[carryfast]

raymundo:

Carryfast:
Maybe boring to you.But at least I’m putting forward solutions which is more than your pointless bollox there has done.

Has Tata been on the phone yet asking for your help ?

Ironically Tata’s conflict of interest,in having a large scale trade/business interest with China,is arguably part of the problem.If anyone wasn’t sure that we’re being subjected to economic warfare from the East they should be now.

[carryfast]

Punchy Dan:

maestegboy:
To rub salt in the wounds now China is going to add a tax to British steel imports!

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35945407

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35948432

Ideal timing for us to Start taxing chinky steel arriving here .

Declared illegal on quality and safety grounds and thereby removal and return to sender at original shipper’s expense would be better.

[eddie_snax]

Carryfast:

simon1958:

Carryfast:
The issue of de industrialisation because of the same economically suicidal policies has affected the south east including ‘within the M25’ no differently during and often even before Maggie’s regime.With the Labour Party being just as bad on the issue of British jobs for British workers.The problem being that neither Socialism or the Cons version of Capitalism apply what’s needed in the form of a Nationalist Protectionist economic policy.

Agreed. But the steel industry has been in decline for years. I started when it was still B.S.C. before it was taken over by the Dutch ( Hoogervennes ( forgive my spelling )) otherwise known as CORUS.

Now if our continental cousins in the E.U. couldn’t make a go at it, they must have smelt financial shortcoming.

On a similar note, in the area I live there were several factories manufacturing fibres for the textile industry. One of those plants invested £ ? millions technology equipment.
It never went into production. Ultimately, it was stripped out and shipped to India.

So. What’s left of British manufacturing then?..

As I’ve said it really started like most of the rest when we joined the EEC.On that note you won’t find any economic figures which can beat those of 1972 either in terms of economic growth or production output.The common link being our open door trade regime in which we put our own workers on the dole in favour of imports…

I just wonder if this might have had any influence on there being no “economic figures which can beat those of 1972 either in terms of economic growth or production output”

During the 1950s working days lost due to strikes averaged 3.3m a year, rising to 3.6m in the 1960s. But the defining decade was the 1970s, with a three-day week at one end and the winter of discontent at the other. During that period 12.9m days were lost, on average, each year to industrial action and the country often seemed to be on the brink of anarchy (although union leaders also struggled to contain unofficial action by their members).

Cant of helped matters, though why let that get in the way of an agenda

[carryfast]

eddie snax:

During the 1950s working days lost due to strikes averaged 3.3m a year, rising to 3.6m in the 1960s. But the defining decade was the 1970s, with a three-day week at one end and the winter of discontent at the other. During that period 12.9m days were lost, on average, each year to industrial action and the country often seemed to be on the brink of anarchy (although union leaders also struggled to contain unofficial action by their members).

Cant of helped matters, though why let that get in the way of an agenda

British workers striking for German type wages in real terms.In a price led inflationary environment caused in large part by a massive artificially created oil price increase that our own oil should have insulated us from.To which the answer by the government was to charge us as much for our own oil as the rest of Europe.While imposing ‘price harmonisation’ with Europe and opening the door to German imports while gradually closing down our own manufacturing sector and imposing wage increase limits lower than inflation which effectively meant a pay cut.

Then Thatcher got in and the rest is history and here we are effectively ruled by the zb Chinese Communist Party.