robinhood_1984:
Unfortuntely this culture of paranoia and fear of cameras and prosecution is one manufactured by the government over the past decade or so, as such its no wonder a majority of us dont apply common sense in this or other situations but rather panic about the camera first, and think rationally second. At the end of the day, if you have an unpredictable dog with a history or biting, or a venonous snake in a corridor you’re trying to get past, you’re going to worry about the worst case consequences before anything else, regardless of the fact the owner of said dog or snake are telling you not to worry, it’ll be fine. Well its only fine until the camera does flash or the dog does bit or the snake does strike, then things are out of our hands and we’re at the mercy of others. I personally dont trust the authorities
The issue has actually applied for years and a lot more than just 10 and it applies as much in the case of emergency vehicle drivers as to the general public in co operating with doing what are sometimes technically illegal acts to get the job done.
lawteacher.net/criminal-law/ … essity.php
Buckoke v GLC 1975.
Even now the law says that the fire brigade have to treat every red light as a give way at best and slow down and stop accordingly.
While the Fire Brigades Union at the time and probably since were actually against even that change and wanted all traffic lights to be adhered to as usual in which case fire engines would need to stop at all red lights and wait for them to change to green just like any other vehicle. 
However the video which I posted shows how the ‘rules’ were/should be treated in the real world by all concerned.
youtube.com/watch?v=Y6TlCWJK4e0
Although modern day health and safety culture would probably mean that the driver wouldn’t be sure wether to follow that old union advice by sitting in the traffic and waiting at the lights like everyone else or to treat every red light as a give way and stop accordingly.Let alone the question concerning emergency vehicles using the wrong side of the road. 
Wasn’t there a case a year or two back where the driver tried to defend his NIP citing he was moving out of the way of an ambulance, the ambo service turn up and actually stated that there drivers are trained to turn off sirens when they can’t get through so as not to pressure drivers, case lost.
Me personally not a bloody chance, if there was no red light camera then not a problem, but like many I’ve seen emergency vehicles go through a busy junction only to switch off the blues & twos a hundred yards down the road. I did have a nice video clip of a W.Yorks ambo pressuring drivers at the Geldard Road/Ring Road junction in Leeds, drivers scattering everywhere, only for him to turn the the B & 2’s off before he got to the next r/b 
.
I’ve personally had a cop car sat on my arse even though I’d seen her come off the roundabout 300 yds up the road so I stopped short of a right hand filter lane (kerbs either side) so she could use if need be and I wouldn’t block it, but typical car driver not looking or planning ahead, she just sat behind and when she eventually realised she has the cheek to shake her head at me as she goes past.
As for the thinking of the children thing, same applies, and as for the e/s on their way to my family/home, do you honestly think they’d get the chance to actually get behind me 
.
Harry Monk:
Yes, I’d move. If I received a NIP I would write back asking them to check the next photo in the sequence, which would show the emergency vehicle passing the red light, although they possibly do that anyway, certainly I had to exceed the speed limit by a fair margin to get round a bend to let an ambulance pass, there was a speed camera van parked right on the bend and I never heard anything. I took the number of the ambulance as it overtook so I could have defended any charge which arose.
I went through a red light on the euston road in london years ago in order to allow an ambulance through, got a NIP and fought it, I lost!!!
Won’t do it anymore.
rambo19:
I went through a red light on the euston road in london years ago in order to allow an ambulance through, got a NIP and fought it, I lost!!!
Won’t do it anymore.
Enough said. Even if only 5 out of 100 are prosecuted for it, or 1 out of 1000 its enough for me to think twice.
All this about drivers turning off the blues and two’s in heavy traffic - I have only ever seen that happen once, near Covent Garden in London.
A police transit was stuck behind rammed traffic down a side street. The siren was blaring, he was shoting out of the window but for whatever reason the traffic wasn’t moving so they stopped it all in the end. I did have a little chuckle 
Having lived there,I can say that generally people in London will move over fairly quickly for the FB, fairly quickly for an ambulance, but will generally ignore the police, especially south of the river .
Rightly or wrongly, there they are seen as generally useless, and spend their days bombing around in Vauxhall Astra’s not really achieving very much. You VERY rarely see a foot patrol away from the tourist areas in London.
Now that everyone has said their bit I can confirm that the cameras do not activate unless the loops are triggered at speed.
Rolling the car over the stop line slightly to let a vehicle through will not set them off.
stagedriver:
Now that everyone has said their bit I can confirm that the cameras do not activate unless the loops are triggered at speed.
Rolling the car over the stop line slightly to let a vehicle through will not set them off.
At what speed would they set off and what if the car had to totally get out of the way and the whole vehicle was to go beyond the stop line. I know I once set one off when I was making a very slow and awkward turn and they’d gone red while my trailer was still passing. I never heared anything but that could solely have been down to the fact that I never used to put a number plate on the rear of my trailer when pulling a Dutch, German or Swedish ferry trailer.
stagedriver:
Now that everyone has said their bit I can confirm that the cameras do not activate unless the loops are triggered at speed.
Rolling the car over the stop line slightly to let a vehicle through will not set them off.
I’d have little confidence in this personally and even if it is correct this certainly isn’t going to be the case at camera monitored yellow box junctions.
I can’t see the reason behind emergency drivers turning of their blue lights when stuck in traffic, all that will happen is the traffic will close up again. I personally think the flashing headlights do more good than blue lights during daylight hours, blue lights work better in the dark.
robinhood_1984:
rambo19:
I went through a red light on the euston road in london years ago in order to allow an ambulance through, got a NIP and fought it, I lost!!!
Won’t do it anymore.
Enough said. Even if only 5 out of 100 are prosecuted for it, or 1 out of 1000 its enough for me to think twice.
Exactly the same happened at the same place to a driver from my old yard, stiffed with £60 and 3 points even though it was recorded on his cab camera, and, with regards to an earlier post,it didn’t matter a jot that it was a Royal Mail liveried artic 
I go into the smoke most days, as I’ve done for the past 5 years, would I go through a red? Would I Flip!!
Would’ve been banned years ago if I did. Ambo’s and F/engines generally switch off in stationary traffic but met pol and city pol keep everything wailing all the time 
No wonder no-one moves for them!
smokinbarrels:
I can’t see the reason behind emergency drivers turning of their blue lights when stuck in traffic, all that will happen is the traffic will close up again. I personally think the flashing headlights do more good than blue lights during daylight hours, blue lights work better in the dark.
The sirens are switched off when there is no possibility of a gap in the traffic ahead. Advanced drivers are taught to switch off and switch on only when traffic moves again. Believe it or not it works…
I’m not sure of the exact trigger speed however when cameras are installed they factor these things in and I’d anticipate it would have to be over 10mph to trigger the two loops.
stagedriver:
smokinbarrels:
I can’t see the reason behind emergency drivers turning of their blue lights when stuck in traffic, all that will happen is the traffic will close up again. I personally think the flashing headlights do more good than blue lights during daylight hours, blue lights work better in the dark.
The sirens are switched off when there is no possibility of a gap in the traffic ahead. Advanced drivers are taught to switch off and switch on only when traffic moves again. Believe it or not it works…
I’m not sure of the exact trigger speed however when cameras are installed they factor these things in and I’d anticipate it would have to be over 10mph to trigger the two loops.
The cameras go active as soon as the traffic light goes red (there may be a short grace period). As soon as a vehicle goes over the induction loops 2 photos are taken (speed is not a factor), this is so that the photos can be compared, usually if the vehicle stops then nfa will be taken, however, technically an offence is committed if the vehicle stops beyond the stop line anyhow and some authorities/partnerships are somewhat strict in their enforcement. The only way to appeal is by chasing the paper trail and to ensure that the camera site is still legal. Also a red light camera doesn’t need to be conspicuous (painted yellow & signage) unlike speed cameras as the traffic light itself is the enforcement.
rambo19:
Harry Monk:
Yes, I’d move. If I received a NIP I would write back asking them to check the next photo in the sequence, which would show the emergency vehicle passing the red light, although they possibly do that anyway, certainly I had to exceed the speed limit by a fair margin to get round a bend to let an ambulance pass, there was a speed camera van parked right on the bend and I never heard anything. I took the number of the ambulance as it overtook so I could have defended any charge which arose.
I went through a red light on the euston road in london years ago in order to allow an ambulance through, got a NIP and fought it, I lost!!!
Won’t do it anymore.
That must be a southern thing. Up here the magistrates would be more annoyed about the fact it had got to court in the first place.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Although modern day health and safety culture would probably mean that the driver wouldn’t be sure wether to follow that old union advice by sitting in the traffic and waiting at the lights like everyone else or to treat every red light as a give way and stop accordingly.Let alone the question concerning emergency vehicles using the wrong side of the road.
Like this guy?
youtube.com/watch?v=epME8YCNrR0
That seems to fit that old school idea of ( rightly ) do whatever you need to do to get the job done.Just like the other video there’s numerous places there where the driver has taken the risk of what could have gone pear shaped at junctions and red lights etc bearing in mind that if it does all go wrong the driver would probably face prosecution for not treating every set of lights as a give way etc etc.Althoug it shows that often the best idea for the public is to stay where they are and let the emergency drivers find their own way through and moving across junctions in that case could block progress rather than help.
If there ever was a video showing bad and dangerous driving this is it.
SB.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Although modern day health and safety culture would probably mean that the driver wouldn’t be sure wether to follow that old union advice by sitting in the traffic and waiting at the lights like everyone else or to treat every red light as a give way and stop accordingly.Let alone the question concerning emergency vehicles using the wrong side of the road.
Like this guy?
youtube.com/watch?v=epME8YCNrR0
I can only really see a couple of mistakes made. Yes this guy was in a hurry by the looks of it but where he crossed on the wrong side and came face to face with a DAF and then again at the bottom of Park lane where he met the green estate.
Bear in mind that video is ancient and driver training methods have advanced a lot. But overall his driving (Not his awareness) was good for the speeds he was pushing. Although personally when I did my blue light training I would be treating those junctions with a LOT more care. Back in the day though…
I went through a red light on the euston road in london years ago in order to allow an ambulance through, got a NIP and fought it, I lost!!!
Won’t do it anymore.
That must be a southern thing. Up here the magistrates would be more annoyed about the fact it had got to court in the first place.
Harumph! London is in the (relative) North to many and I don’t consider what goes on there (on the roads in particular, especially in terms of revenue generation for the councils) is representative of anywhere else, though presumably Mexico city or Kampala etc. might be similar in terms of the amount of traffic and driving standards. They (in London) are ALL out to rip you off - it’s all about money up there IMO.
Interesting to see others differing points of view as ever, but I’d really like to know for certain whether running a red light is an absolute offence - seems the jury is out on the internet over that. Also whether you can really go slowly past a red light camera and not set it off - perhaps the 2nd photo AIUI would show no vehicle there, hence no evidence?
Anyway, I thought this was an interesting thread at the time, if only for Orys’s experience of “British justice” (the outcome of which was sensible and satisfactory):-
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62494
So apparently you can go through a red light (if e.g. it would be unsafe not to) although it might take a sympathetic magistrate to get off the charge should it go that far. Arguably (see above posts) it might be regarded as less safe to unnecessarily delay an emergency vehicle, though you can bet the impersonal automated system, as it stands, wouldn’t recognise this.
stagedriver:
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Although modern day health and safety culture would probably mean that the driver wouldn’t be sure wether to follow that old union advice by sitting in the traffic and waiting at the lights like everyone else or to treat every red light as a give way and stop accordingly.Let alone the question concerning emergency vehicles using the wrong side of the road.
Like this guy?
youtube.com/watch?v=epME8YCNrR0
I can only really see a couple of mistakes made. Yes this guy was in a hurry by the looks of it but where he crossed on the wrong side and came face to face with a DAF and then again at the bottom of Park lane where he met the green estate.
Bear in mind that video is ancient and driver training methods have advanced a lot. But overall his driving (Not his awareness) was good for the speeds he was pushing. Although personally when I did my blue light training I would be treating those junctions with a LOT more care. Back in the day though…
Which is what I meant about health and safety culture gone mad and both emergency and the ordinary drivers these days who are scared to just get on with it using whatever the best way to get the job done happens to be even if it means taking a few risks at junctions and lights etc when required.
The result being that we get ambulances and fire engines not making it in time to get the job done.The only difference between ‘back in the day’ compared to now is the public’s and emergency drivers’ attitude to taking risks,by ignoring both the law,management,and even their own unions when required,considering the laws and driver regulation,regarding emergency vehicles,were no different at best or even more draconian at worst.
One thing is for sure if it was me waiting for an emergency vehicle to arrive I’d want someone to be driving it in the way that the drivers in the two videos posted are driving them.Rather than one who treats every junction,red light,or hazard as a give way situation. 