Carryfast:
That defence would probably work without a problem in most cases.However when it’s a gap that isn’t there,let alone that’s reducing,because of a truck being driven too closeley behind another that might be a different matter.
As for ‘non fault accidents’.Some employers word that as ‘avoidable’ not non fault.With some types of avoidable accidents being viewed as more serious than others which would make the difference between getting another chance or not.
As for the case in question maybe next time it might be a coach or a truck that’s entering from the slip road in which case all bets are off concerning the results of the driver with the priority thinking that it’s only non fault accidents that matter.
as for the rearmost lorry closing the gap, did it ever occur to you that he was closing the gap to overtake the lorry in front?
this would also explain as to why the driver never saw the car, as he would have been checking his OFFSIDE mirror waiting for a gap to move in to, to overtake the other vehicle
now, for your argument about a coach, let’s take it to another level, what if a jumbo jet air liner had major engine failure and needed to land on the motorway and the lorry didn’t move out of his way?
shuttlespanker:
as for the rearmost lorry closing the gap, did it ever occur to you that he was closing the gap to overtake the lorry in front?
this would also explain as to why the driver never saw the car, as he would have been checking his OFFSIDE mirror waiting for a gap to move in to, to overtake the other vehicle
now, for your argument about a coach, let’s take it to another level, what if a jumbo jet air liner had major engine failure and needed to land on the motorway and the lorry didn’t move out of his way?
So you’re saying it’s ok to let seperation distances erode when you want to overtake something in front while looking in the mirrors for a gap which also means not being able to see anything else.In which case as I said it’s lucky that the truck in front never needed to make an emergency stop for whatever reason.
But no it’s unlikely that a truck will ever need to be held back to make room for an aircraft to make an emergency stop on a motorway or to merge from a slip road.However defenceive driving to allow for what a coach or a truck ( or a car ) might do in front or on a slip road etc etc is another matter.
This is all basic driving school stuff that a driver should have learn’t before ever driving a truck for a living for the first time.
Carryfast driving schools do not teach you about eroding stopping distances and how to deal with onslips, they teach you how to pass a test.
By rights - slipway traffic should always give way to main road traffic but you need some flexibility from main road traffic or things like this happen. All it would have took to avoid this is 2 clicks off 5 seconds 2 clicks on. Now insurance wise i reckon the truck will get off with it but it could have easily been avoided. But the car has done himself no favours he has put himself into a position with zero options and is also right on the nearside pillar easily out the drivers view.
i am glad i have a camera fitted in my truck as its there to protect myself and records everything. i was involved in a rta two years ago this month, some [zb] decided to pull in front of me and hit the brakes, this was on the m25 i was doing fifty and luckily i managed to stand on the brakes and avoid a collision. they then drove of. ive been suffering form injuries from it ever since includeing losing several months of work. police could not do anything as i didnt get the chance to get the reg as the tossers drove of.
After this cameras were fitted in all trucks and several drivers have had there jobs saved as they have been proved innocent of being at fault. today for me is a prime example m4 slip onto m25 anticlockwise, im on the slip and a 7,5 coming up the outside and starts indictating to get into the slip, no idea what he is thinking as a skip lorry is in lane 1 and doing about 40, turns out hes on his mobile in full converstaion. rather than the 7.5 slowing down he sits right up the arse of the skip then slips in behind me. just thought to myself what a ■■■■. now on m25 same 7.5 comes pass me and then indicates then pulls right in front of me leaving about a metre, i hit the brakes and have to swerve into lane 2 to avoid an accident. why he decided to do this is anybodys guess, he also had two passengers. unfortunatly for him it was all recorded and his companys name and phone number was plastered all over the back of the vehicle.
video will be downloaded tommorrow and is being sent to the director of the company, as he is very interested to see it himself. its idiots like this is the reason why we have to protect ourselfs and ensure we get home everynight.
jediknightMEMBER Posts: 16Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:06 pm
merc0447:
Carryfast driving schools do not teach you about eroding stopping distances and how to deal with onslips, they teach you how to pass a test.
By rights - slipway traffic should always give way to main road traffic but you need some flexibility from main road traffic or things like this happen. But the car has done himself no favours he has put himself into a position with zero options and is also right on the nearside pillar easily out the drivers view.
The way I was taught right from the start was all about leaving and maintaining loads of room in front.I’d agree with what you’ve said about the need for flexibility at slip roads.
Although having said that I think the idea of two lane on slips often put drivers into those types of situations of being sandwiched between traffic in lane 1 of the slip road to the left together with road markings that seperate those slip road lanes and traffic with priority to the right with no suitable gaps to enter because that traffic is often travelling too close together to allow safe merging.Which realistically just means either making allowances,by at least increasing seperation distances at junctions,for them to merge safely or those drivers effectively having to stop and enter the motorway or dual carriageway from a standstill or almost a standstill.Which obviously means traffic on the priority road having to slow up to allow for the resulting speed differential in that case.
shuttlespanker:
as for the rearmost lorry closing the gap, did it ever occur to you that he was closing the gap to overtake the lorry in front?
In my opinion that is way to close, regardless of anything, if the truck infront had to brake hard you’d be dead. Im not into this tailgating, overtaking at 0.5 mph ■■■■, mite save you 5mins over a 200mile drive but you can bet your wages you’ll have to wait to get tipped anyway.
Maybe it might have helped if the truck driver who hit the car had left a decent seperation distance from the truck in front including sufficient for a vehicle to enter from the slip road between them.If the wagon in front had needed to make an emergency stop for whatever reason the one behind would probably have run into it at that point regardless of the actual accident which took place.
and maybe just bloomin maybe if the car driver had read the [zb] highway code and gave way instead of trying to barge his/her way in then maybe there would be fewer of this type of accident friggin darwin award contenders the lot of them
Saaamon:
d the lorry driver should also be charged with careless or even dangerous driving as he made no atempt to change lanes or reduce his speed which is all that was needed,.
he wasn’t obliged to do this by any means.
Car driver, as said, suicide jockey!!! Got what he deserved! Maybe next time he’ll do his shoulder checks!
You should hand your licence back , being a PROFESSIONAL means you should see acidents before they happen and take action to avoid. Yes there are idiots on the road but you took a professional test so shouldn’t be one of them
Blimey! We need to be clairvoyant now do we? I don’t recall that being part of the test, or the DCPC!
The reason there is a Highway Code, and the reason there is a driving test, is intended to be so there is a defined standard of driving. It is expecting way too much to say truck drivers should now be able to not only judge the competence of all drivers they meet whilst undertaking their professional duties, but to anticipate their actions!
Don’t be complete t[zb]at! Oh and as you’re obviously not an HGV driver, more likely a 12 year old troll, take that stupid avatar off your profile. It just confirms the st[zb]pidity of your posts!
Saaamon:
d the lorry driver should also be charged with careless or even dangerous driving as he made no atempt to change lanes or reduce his speed which is all that was needed,.
he wasn’t obliged to do this by any means.
Car driver, as said, suicide jockey!!! Got what he deserved! Maybe next time he’ll do his shoulder checks!
You should hand your licence back , being a PROFESSIONAL means you should see acidents before they happen and take action to avoid. Yes there are idiots on the road but you took a professional test so shouldn’t be one of them
Blimey! We need to be clairvoyant now do we? I don’t recall that being part of the test, or the DCPC!
The reason there is a Highway Code, and the reason there is a driving test, is intended to be so there is a defined standard of driving. It is expecting way too much to say truck drivers should now be able to not only judge the competence of all drivers they meet whilst undertaking their professional duties, but to anticipate their actions!
Don’t be complete t[zb]at! Oh and as you’re obviously not an HGV driver, more likely a 12 year old troll, take that stupid avatar off your profile. It just confirms the st[zb]pidity of your posts!
I take it you didn’t watch the video I was replying on , you don’t need to be clairvoyant you could see what was gonna happen a mile off
I disagree with your second paragraph threfore you must be a troll .
common people, i’m no trucker, but it’s quite clear the civic was in his blind spot, (yep a stupid car driving idiot that know’s what a blind spot is ) it’s civic’s fault end of, as for the trucker not pulling out to lane 2 to predict that a vehicle will force their way on to the motor way, well, ■■■■ know’s but did any one notice the green low roof cf 6x4 pulling a flat carrying block’s on it in lane 2? and the fact that through out the video, car’s were streaming past in lane 3+4 but not 2…
philgor:
common people, i’m no trucker, but it’s quite clear the civic was in his blind spot, (yep a stupid car driving idiot that know’s what a blind spot is ) it’s civic’s fault end of, as for the trucker not pulling out to lane 2 to predict that a vehicle will force their way on to the motor way, well, [zb] know’s but did any one notice the green low roof cf 6x4 pulling a flat carrying block’s on it in lane 2? and the fact that through out the video, car’s were streaming past in lane 3+4 but not 2…
I don’t think it’s got anything to do with the possibility of a move into lane 2 to avoid the situation.It’s more about the simple basic driving skill of maintaining a decent seperation distance to the vehicle in front.In addition to which will need to be the thought process,when approaching motorway slip roads,that in addition to that seperation distance,at least enough additional seperation will be needed to allow for a vehicle up to the length of a truck,possibly even more than one,to be able to merge safeley between the two vehicles.
IE in this case it seemed to be mostly the result of the car not being able to merge safely because of the closeness of the truck in lane 1,which hit the car,to the truck ahead of it,which prevented the car from being able to accelerate away from conflict with the truck behind it in lane 1 as it merged.As I’ve said I wouldn’t like to bet on that factor not being taken into account by the law had the accident in question turned out to have resulted in a casualty/ies.
From what I can make out then Carryfast, when on a motorway you find yourself catching up with another truck with about a 5kmh speed difference you pull out to overtake when you reach the 2 second gap between vehicles. Is that correct?
If not, what gap do you close up to before pulling out to overtake?
Obviously, with you being a professional driver, it never happens that the timing of a manoeuvre gets slightly out of kilter, so that your safety gap never gets that little bit too short.
jediknight:
i am glad i have a camera fitted in my truck as its there to protect myself and records everything. i was involved in a rta two years ago this month, some [zb] decided to pull in front of me and hit the brakes, this was on the m25 i was doing fifty and luckily i managed to stand on the brakes and avoid a collision. they then drove of. ive been suffering form injuries from it ever since includeing losing several months of work. police could not do anything as i didnt get the chance to get the reg as the tossers drove of.
Not disputing your claims, but how do you get injuries from braking hard and not hitting anything? Curiosity has got the better of me.
Simon:
From what I can make out then Carryfast, when on a motorway you find yourself catching up with another truck with about a 5kmh speed difference you pull out to overtake when you reach the 2 second gap between vehicles. Is that correct?
If not, what gap do you close up to before pulling out to overtake?
Obviously, with you being a professional driver, it never happens that the timing of a manoeuvre gets slightly out of kilter, so that your safety gap never gets that little bit too short.
Firstly what makes you think that a two second gap is sufficient anyway especially as in examples like slip roads as in this case.
What I’m saying is that when you find yourself catching up with another vehicle you either pull out and overtake the thing as soon as possible and long before a two second gap is reached and if that isn’t an option for whatever reason than back off to maintain a decent seperation distance until it is possible.
However no one is saying that humans are perfect and sometimes they make mistakes but in that case it’s no good then putting the blame for that on everyone else around when that mistake inevitably causes problems or results in a collision.
But in general problems and accidents caused by vehicles travelling too close together aren’t a case of ‘slightly out of kilter’ timing they are more the case of zb driving of a lower standard than that expected of a learner driver while under instruction,let alone that required to pass the driving test.
So yeah right drive as close to the vehicle in front as in this case,especially through a slip road junction,resulting in the type of ‘issue’ as in this case,on an LGV driving test,and then put in a complaint that the examiner has failed you for just getting your timing ‘slightly out of kilter’ in the course of a botched overtaking manouvre.
