George@ASDA driver:
happysack:
My firm pays you while you are on duty. Poa, other work, break.and that’s absolutely as it should be.
POA is the drivers best friend. Keeps your rolling working hours well down.
So does break, POA should never have been allowed!
Very rarely used POA, If you do it should definitely be paid.
As long as the brown stuff is produced by cows it’ll ever happen
weeto:
George@ASDA driver:
happysack:
My firm pays you while you are on duty. Poa, other work, break.and that’s absolutely as it should be.
POA is the drivers best friend. Keeps your rolling working hours well down.
So does break, POA should never have been allowed!
but as I have explained on other threads, sometimes clearing your break when you could of used poa, can cause you to take another 45 minute break when you wouldn’t need to, later in the day.
happysack:
weeto:
George@ASDA driver:
happysack:
My firm pays you while you are on duty. Poa, other work, break.and that’s absolutely as it should be.
POA is the drivers best friend. Keeps your rolling working hours well down.
So does break, POA should never have been allowed!
but as I have explained on other threads, sometimes clearing your break when you could of used poa, can cause you to take another 45 minute break when you wouldn’t need to, later in the day.
Doesn’t make any difference to me, and probably a lot of other people, lots of breaks are good.
happysack:
weeto:
George@ASDA driver:
happysack:
My firm pays you while you are on duty. Poa, other work, break.and that’s absolutely as it should be.
POA is the drivers best friend. Keeps your rolling working hours well down.
So does break, POA should never have been allowed!
but as I have explained on other threads, sometimes clearing your break when you could of used poa, can cause you to take another 45 minute break when you wouldn’t need to, later in the day.
which is exactly why we end up in the [zb]if we register more than allowed breaks
Never used POA and never will. I’m either driving working or resting, there is in my lexecon, no such thing as POA. I’m paid salary so makes no difference to me about hours. but when I was on hours at the last firm I worked for, then they paid for the whole shift, Before that I was on percentage. In the past I have been at firms that deducted break but this was before WTD/RTD came into being.
Let’s face it. It’s POA that is “■■■■■■■■” and I wouldn’t mind it being abolished outright. Everyone everywhere should be paid for the hours they are at work, regardless of what they are doing during that period. More hours at work counted=more overtime to book, and running out of max duty hours sooner, so you get some enforced time off as well, which in turn makes sure the overtime is available to all, rather than just a few hours-bashing “docket kings”.
You clock off ten hours after you clock on, then you do 4 days (rather than 5) and do a proper 40 hour week like Mr Average does in other industries, along with the “Mr Average” paypacket (if salaried) of £26,500 per year. Anything over 40 hours should either be built-in overtime, and not “flat hours for flat money” like 55 hours for a measly £480 with unpaid mealbreaks on top.
Half as many hours again for £50 a week less than “Mr Average” stinks to high heaven.
Up north, are your laybys full of southern trampers?
I know down here the kent ones are full of nobs and stobs and continental wagons 7 days a week.
Winseer:
You clock off ten hours after you clock on, then you do 4 days (rather than 5) and do a proper 40 hour week like Mr Average does in other industries, along with the “Mr Average” paypacket (if salaried) of £26,500 per year.
How many “average” semi-skilled workers do you know who are paid £14.28 per hour basic ?
Winseer:
Let’s face it. It’s POA that is “■■■■■■■■” and I wouldn’t mind it being abolished outright. Everyone everywhere should be paid for the hours they are at work, regardless of what they are doing during that period. More hours at work counted=more overtime to book, and running out of max duty hours sooner, so you get some enforced time off as well, which in turn makes sure the overtime is available to all, rather than just a few hours-bashing “docket kings”.You clock off ten hours after you clock on, then you do 4 days (rather than 5) and do a proper 40 hour week like Mr Average does in other industries, along with the “Mr Average” paypacket (if salaried) of £26,500 per year. Anything over 40 hours should either be built-in overtime, and not “flat hours for flat money” like 55 hours for a measly £480 with unpaid mealbreaks on top.
Half as many hours again for £50 a week less than “Mr Average” stinks to high heaven.
Up north, are your laybys full of southern trampers?
I know down here the kent ones are full of nobs and stobs and continental wagons 7 days a week.
No wonder you won’t turn out for less than £X per hour if your getting docked for POA. Not worked anywhere that does that, most dock 45 mins a day for break, but never been docked for POA.
^^ this ^^
We are docked 30 mins break. So 15 hours at work is 14 1/2 hours pay. Without poa my hours would be to high for wtd so would loose hours, therefore less pay. Long days are fine by me, I work away all week so might as well work, rather than sitting in the cab for no pay watching emmerdale like some other drivers seem to.
if its not legal poa as in :your going to be 30 mins drive: would that not be falsification of records if anybody was enforcing itas its not a true representation of hours worked?
hyper26:
if its not legal poa as in :your going to be 30 mins drive: would that not be falsification of records if anybody was enforcing itas its not a true representation of hours worked?
but I could show a printout with 2,3,4,28,52 minutes, whatever. Who can prove I wasn’t told “park over there for x minutes?”
happysack:
^^ this ^^We are docked 30 mins break. So 15 hours at work is 14 1/2 hours pay. Without poa my hours would be to high for wtd so would loose hours, therefore less pay. Long days are fine by me, I work away all week so might as well work, rather than sitting in the cab for no pay watching emmerdale like some other drivers seem to.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this for me too ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Winseer, with the greatest respect you seem to get all hot and bothered when the subject of POA comes up. I can only assume that you personally have had bad experiences with it in the past. I can assure you though that I have never spoken to a driver who gets any extra breaks or POA time knocked off his wages. I don’t deny that maybe there are companies out there that do (maybe you found one) but I’ve never experienced it.
Muckaway:
To save starting another poa thread…
I start at 4am mostly, and usually reach wtd break before 4.5 hours driving. Am I right in that I only need to have 15 minutes’ break by 10am, but if my driving hours still haven’t reached 4.5 hours by 1pm then I must’ve had a break/breaks totalling 30minutes?
The other drivers have a 15 minute break “at a delivery location” and then 30 minutes at 10am. I have a 15 around 8.30-9.00 and then 30 when my 4.5 runs out but I’m told I’m being naughty.
Yes Muckaway. You are correct. I do the same, 15 minutes then run the time out and have a thirty. But, if you haven’t run your time out you and work more than 9 hours than breaks must total 45 minutes.
Winseer:
do a proper 40 hour week like Mr Average does in other industries, along with the “Mr Average” paypacket (if salaried) of £26,500 per year. .
Just as a matter of record, the average pay in this Country as stated by the ONS last week, is £23000 per anum, or just over £442 per week, and this figure is a round up that excludes excemptional high wages, but is average that will include all taxable income, so overtime and bonus payments will be included. So quoting this figure or your figure above, as Mr Average 40 hour week is disingenous.
I heard this on 5live breakfast show last week, cant remember what day but I do remember remarking about it to Mrs Snax that night on phone. It was the fact that over the last few years the average income had dropped, and the man from the ONS said that, when being interveiwed that I remember.
Muckaway:
To save starting another poa thread…
I start at 4am mostly, and usually reach wtd break before 4.5 hours driving. Am I right in that I only need to have 15 minutes’ break by 10am, but if my driving hours still haven’t reached 4.5 hours by 1pm then I must’ve had a break/breaks totalling 30minutes?
No that’s not correct.
If you start at 04:00 you should start a break of at-least 15 minutes no later than 10:00 (6 hours working time from the start of the shift).
If you haven’t reached 4½ hours driving time you should have another break of at-least 15 minutes no later than 6 hours after the end of the last break.
So if the first break was 10:00 to 10:15, you would need to start another break of at-least 15 minutes no later than 16:15 (6 hours working time after the end of the first break), or a 30 minute driving break at or before 4½ hours driving, whichever comes first.
Muckaway:
The other drivers have a 15 minute break “at a delivery location” and then 30 minutes at 10am. I have a 15 around 8.30-9.00 and then 30 when my 4.5 runs out but I’m told I’m being naughty.
As long as you second break is not more than 6 hours working time after the first break what you’re doing is fine.
As has been said if your total working time is more than 9 hours you need to have a total of at-least 45 minutes break/breaks regardless of whether or not you reach 4½ hours driving time.
Though to be honest I’m not sure what this has to do with POA 
But Tachograph, if you work between 6 and 9 hours without using up the driving time then am I correct in saying that another 15 minutes needs to be had at or before 13:00 to total 30 minutes as in Muckaways example.
cruisin comet:
But Tachograph, if you work between 6 and 9 hours without using up the driving time then am I correct in saying that another 15 minutes needs to be had at or before 13:00 to total 30 minutes as in Muckaways example.
No, sorry but that’s not correct.
The only time you would need to have another 15 minute break before 9 hours working time would be if your total working time was not going to exceed 9 hours.
The working time regulations require that no worker should work over 6 hours without a break, and if your working time is over 6 hours but not over 9 hours you should have a total of at-least 30 minutes break/breaks.
However if you’re working time is over 9 hours you should have a total of at-least 45 minutes break/breaks.
These sections of the regulations should be read independently, so if your working time is not over 9 hours you ignore section 7.3.
If your total working time is over 9 hours you should ignore section 7.2.
Breaks
7.–
(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each…
(5) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety of the mobile worker, to ensure that the limits specified above are complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him.
I have always wondered why they worded it in the way they did when IMO it could have been worded differently without changing the meaning