Firstly my apologies as I haven’t been here for ages: too busy driving a truck
The usual driver’s rumour mill (Morrison’s Wakefield - so plenty of time to kill there then ) and a driver says they are planning/thinking about doing away with POA.
Anyone know about this (huge apologies if it is old news)?
My lot work me 60 or 70 hours a week and the only way they (I ?) get away with it is they push us to book all “park over there drive and we’ll get to you when we can” as POA.
Yes, I know it should only be “if the time is known in advance” but of course, it never is.
There have been mumblings about this for years , also about changing the meaning of poa and how it can be used but I would not think anything is going to change for a long long time
If you work 60-70 hours a week, and POA is done away with, then the firm will start paying you for a 70 hour week, which would mean a substantial pay rise at those firms already paying close to minimum wage.
I suggest that it’s “Not going to happen” therefore.
Vosa, the police and foreign enforcement arn’t interested in it.
Why are large companies and drivers so concerned about it?
It’s the same with the working time directive, no one in authority gives a [zb].
limeyphil:
Vosa, the police and foreign enforcement arn’t interested in it.
Why are large companies and drivers so concerned about it?
It’s the same with the working time directive, no one in authority gives a [zb].
Poundland got done about abusing poa and driving hours but nobody in there right mind wants to work for them. ■■■ pay for employed drivers and agency get looked after all the good shifts. Employed drivers get the crap. I was supposed to be on nights for them when they employed me (I was wet around the ears then) but landed up on store delivery which supposed to be short term, soon ■■■■■■ them off.
limeyphil:
Vosa, the police and foreign enforcement arn’t interested in it.
Why are large companies and drivers so concerned about it?
It’s the same with the working time directive, no one in authority gives a [zb].
Unfortunately the working time regulations are written into UK law, so even though authorities aren’t interested in it companies can potentially be prosecuted for failing to comply.
Companies have been prosecuted for WTD none compliance but as far as I’m aware it’s only when they’ve also been prosecuted for other offences relating to the tachograph regulations, VOSA and the police will tend to build a better case by including WTD offences.
The whole business of drivers hours was supposed to be put in place to stop half asleep drivers killing themselves and members of the public.
It’s however been perverted into a means for management to get us all to be at work more hours for the same or less pay.
The whole system could have been simplified with a minimum wage for drivers (the average of whatever everyone else gets for a 48 hour week would have done!), and a maximum number of hours per week on duty. How much do the Police, Teachers, Nursing staff & Council workers get for 48 hours? Even at minimum wage, I bet there’s some drivers out there right now working longer hours for less than what their basic is!
This would have meant 3 days of 15 hours resulting in the rest of the week off for that particular driver “by law”.
Instead, what do we get? - Employers getting their own drivers to conspire with them as to “why it’s ok to do an 84 hour week without being paid for 84 hours on duty, thus remaining legal”.
Of course the reason there’s queues of drivers willing to do this, is because perhaps their English or Licence isn’t upto scratch for some reason, so they’re just grateful for the opportunity given by employers who’ll take the most advantage of it.
One day in the not too distant future, they’ll be so many el-cheapo employers that they’ll not be enough staff left that can afford to lose money working for them.
For the time being, a company can go bust, directors run off leaving debts and wages unpaid, and start up somewhere else afresh. The cake is only so big though, so when everyone is a “harvester” and there’s no one left doing any planting, let alone tilling - then what?
I’d say we’re already on top of what the Hotel industry has become - work for ex-cons, illegal immigrants, and illegal traders. The rate of attrition will increase towards this end result once the inward trickle of decent transport folk from other good, but closing down firms and the armed forces dries up, which must happen eventually.
They ask their drivers not to use POA whilst getting tipped, just to use break mode (the driver is not required during tip time unless on twin deck trailer).
This stops people having having 45 mins POA whilst getting tipped then pulling out for 45 min break. Drivers just get confused or use inappropriate terms, like being banned. You still only get 45 mins wage deduction per day even if you are on break for 3 hours, therefire POA is redundant at this firm.
To save starting another poa thread…
I start at 4am mostly, and usually reach wtd break before 4.5 hours driving. Am I right in that I only need to have 15 minutes’ break by 10am, but if my driving hours still haven’t reached 4.5 hours by 1pm then I must’ve had a break/breaks totalling 30minutes?
The other drivers have a 15 minute break “at a delivery location” and then 30 minutes at 10am. I have a 15 around 8.30-9.00 and then 30 when my 4.5 runs out but I’m told I’m being naughty.
I only use break. Pull the curtains jump in cab and change tacho. Can’t get nicked for that. I can’t see some goods in ■■■■ standing in court to swear he told you it would be a 30 min tip. The use of poa is illegal, 90% of the time
neil1024:
Firstly my apologies as I haven’t been here for ages: too busy driving a truck
The usual driver’s rumour mill (Morrison’s Wakefield - so plenty of time to kill there then ) and a driver says they are planning/thinking about doing away with POA.
Anyone know about this (huge apologies if it is old news)?
My lot work me 60 or 70 hours a week and the only way they (I ?) get away with it is they push us to book all “park over there drive and we’ll get to you when we can” as POA.
Yes, I know it should only be “if the time is known in advance” but of course, it never is.
Thoughts?
I really hope not,as it would be a end to my 70 hrs p.w and my o/t,and I guess 100,s of £ of pay cut p.w,£1,000,s p.a,NO,leave it alone
Winseer:
The whole business of drivers hours was supposed to be put in place to stop half asleep drivers killing themselves and members of the public.
It’s however been perverted into a means for management to get us all to be at work more hours for the same or less pay.
The whole system could have been simplified with a minimum wage for drivers (the average of whatever everyone else gets for a 48 hour week would have done!), and a maximum number of hours per week on duty. How much do the Police, Teachers, Nursing staff & Council workers get for 48 hours? Even at minimum wage, I bet there’s some drivers out there right now working longer hours for less than what their basic is!
This would have meant 3 days of 15 hours resulting in the rest of the week off for that particular driver “by law”.
Instead, what do we get? - Employers getting their own drivers to conspire with them as to “why it’s ok to do an 84 hour week without being paid for 84 hours on duty, thus remaining legal”.
Of course the reason there’s queues of drivers willing to do this, is because perhaps their English or Licence isn’t upto scratch for some reason, so they’re just grateful for the opportunity given by employers who’ll take the most advantage of it.
One day in the not too distant future, they’ll be so many el-cheapo employers that they’ll not be enough staff left that can afford to lose money working for them.
For the time being, a company can go bust, directors run off leaving debts and wages unpaid, and start up somewhere else afresh. The cake is only so big though, so when everyone is a “harvester” and there’s no one left doing any planting, let alone tilling - then what?
I’d say we’re already on top of what the Hotel industry has become - work for ex-cons, illegal immigrants, and illegal traders. The rate of attrition will increase towards this end result once the inward trickle of decent transport folk from other good, but closing down firms and the armed forces dries up, which must happen eventually.
winseer some times you spout a load of bollicks, if you only want to work 45 hrs a week carry on, all I can say is you must have worked for some crap employers since you started driving!!!
I personally are salaried so if I work 45 hrs or 55 hrs I get the same and its a bloody good wage for the area I come from, now why would I want some other person driving my truck? no thank you very much, one truck one driver and that’s it, so its got to earn its keep, so I will stay driving it
Winseer:
The whole business of drivers hours was supposed to be put in place to stop half asleep drivers killing themselves and members of the public.
It’s however been perverted into a means for management to get us all to be at work more hours for the same or less pay.
The whole system could have been simplified with a minimum wage for drivers (the average of whatever everyone else gets for a 48 hour week would have done!), and a maximum number of hours per week on duty. How much do the Police, Teachers, Nursing staff & Council workers get for 48 hours? Even at minimum wage, I bet there’s some drivers out there right now working longer hours for less than what their basic is!
This would have meant 3 days of 15 hours resulting in the rest of the week off for that particular driver “by law”.
Instead, what do we get? - Employers getting their own drivers to conspire with them as to “why it’s ok to do an 84 hour week without being paid for 84 hours on duty, thus remaining legal”.
Of course the reason there’s queues of drivers willing to do this, is because perhaps their English or Licence isn’t upto scratch for some reason, so they’re just grateful for the opportunity given by employers who’ll take the most advantage of it.
One day in the not too distant future, they’ll be so many el-cheapo employers that they’ll not be enough staff left that can afford to lose money working for them.
For the time being, a company can go bust, directors run off leaving debts and wages unpaid, and start up somewhere else afresh. The cake is only so big though, so when everyone is a “harvester” and there’s no one left doing any planting, let alone tilling - then what?
I’d say we’re already on top of what the Hotel industry has become - work for ex-cons, illegal immigrants, and illegal traders. The rate of attrition will increase towards this end result once the inward trickle of decent transport folk from other good, but closing down firms and the armed forces dries up, which must happen eventually.
winseer some times you spout a load of bollicks, if you only want to work 45 hrs a week carry on, all I can say is you must have worked for some crap employers since you started driving!!!
I personally are salaried so if I work 45 hrs or 55 hrs I get the same and its a bloody good wage for the area I come from, now why would I want some other person driving my truck? no thank you very much, one truck one driver and that’s it, so its got to earn its keep, so I will stay driving it
Does anyone really want to work longer hours than people in other industries to earn less? All I’m asking for is 45 hours pay for 45 hours on duty. Are there really any employers out there who’ll let you register 48 hours a week or less, but will pay you for 75+ as opposed to the other way around?
I suggest 99.9% of employers either “Ignore” POA already, or use it for their advantage instead of their drivers and the general public.
I realise that if you live in the areas with low employment options, you’ll either work longer, work for less, work for crooks or a combination of all three.
If you’re salaried, you should be on 36-40 hours base is what I am saying. 55 hours base means no overtime to speak of, and otherwise flat money week in week out. Bet you’re not taking home the £650+ a week that one should reasonably expect for a 55 hour week… A week consisting of a basic pay, allowances, and most of all, a good-multiple OVERTIME rate.
If you are, then I’ve got you completely wrong, and award the match to you.
These days “£480ish” salaried just isn’t enough to pay the costs of living that are clearly higher in this part of the world than yours. It’s not ■■■■■■■■, it’s just the way it is.
Wages are higher in the south because we can’t afford to work for a loss (earn less than the cost of living) that’s all. If it were all about ‘greed’, then I’m sure there would be enough greed in all parts of the UK to keep wages high across the board everywhere…
) and a driver says they are planning/thinking about doing away with POA. 
