Got an infringement yesterday I only drove 5.5 hours and I’m normally very careful on times. I did however use POA did this reset my driving time on digi tacho without being a rest period.
did it reset you 4.5 hours driving?? no it didn’t hence the infringement digi tachos i believe are crap and show it as resetting your drive time, but it doesn’t
Yes it reset your driving time BUT legally poa can’t be classed as a break so you got your legs slapped. Digi cards are good but I never use poa.
Poa is the stupidesy rule since the 10 max working time between 12 & 4 with a automatic opt out for anyone who does work between those times.
I never use poa. It’s a load of rubbish. I only use rest and other work. Remember, you have to be pre advised of a time to count it as poa. How many rdc clerks commit to a time? I’ve never heard of anyone being fined for it. If I got questioned by vosa id ask them to prove i’d been pre advised of a time, and how on earth could they do that? Don’t use it and you can’t fall foul of the law. Poa is just another unneeded stress on my day
LASHHGV:
Got an infringement yesterday I only drove 5.5 hours and I’m normally very careful on times. I did however use POA did this reset my driving time on digi tacho without being a rest period.
YES - It seems, from other posts I have read, that using POA on a digi resets the driving time - seems to be a general software fault
Doing 3 X 15 mins breaks also seems to reset the driving time when it should not do that as from 2007 the reset time is 15 + 30 - old software again !!
Best thing - if you get paid for breaks then don’t use POA
Only really use POA when being jumped out on a long run,but I have been led to believe by something I read in one of the transport mag legal columns,that the first 45 mins of POA can be called a break,but obviously in a moving vehicle the tacho always defaults to POA for driver No 2,so who is to know?
bestbooties:
Only really use POA when being jumped out on a long run,but I have been led to believe by something I read in one of the transport mag legal columns,that the first 45 mins of POA can be called a break,but obviously in a moving vehicle the tacho always defaults to POA for driver No 2,so who is to know?
I read in one of the transport mag legal columns,that the first 45 mins of POA can be called a break,
Ian.
That only applies to the second man while multimanning for the reasons you stated above,
Position 2 cannot be set to break while the lorry is moving.
I usually just put it on break if I’m waiting,don’t bother with poa,just show my break and then your covered,your sat there doing nothing anyway while waiting so why not have a break,the digi did that poa to me once.
Pain in the a*se isn’t it. 
I went for an interview recently and the subject of POA came up, I was told they like their drivers to use it, they asked me if I understood it, I said yes but said I wouldn’t mind a clarification from your point of view just in case. He explained the fairly standard thing, but didn’t mention “known about in advance”. I put it to him that if a situation is applicable for POA it is also applicable for break.
He said again that they are not the same thing, but couldn’t really explain why very well.
Since this company pay for all the hours you do (breaks and POA included) no quibble. I can see no reason to use POA at all.
Since POA is only mentioned in the WTD and not in the EU Drivers Hours Rules, personally I think it should be ignored.
When you are waiting, generally you will be sat on your backside or wandering around aimlessly. A drivers activity will be the same whether he knows about a period of waiting in advance or not. This sat on your backside and wandering around aimlessly is funnily enough exactly the same activity that you will be doing on break. So I fail to understand why they feel the need to make a distinction.
Is a period of waiting that you know the duration of in advance less stressful (and therefore more restful) than one in which you do not know the duration. Even this seems irrelevant as POA is not necessarily meant to be restful, that is what breaks are for.
It just needlessly complicates this. Ok, it isn’t Theoretical Physics complicated but it is still unecessary.
I found these examples after a quick google search, whilst it goes some way to understand what they consider POA, I find it all quite frankly laughable 
, as the end situation is the same. Is it me, or do all the POA examples below, also sound like breaks.
Case study 3. Queuing at a delivery
Example 1
You turn up at a new depot you have never visited before only to find a long queue. You sit there for two hours before your turn.
POA = 0 Working time = 2
Example 2
You turn up at a new depot you have never visited before only to find a long queue. You get out of the cab and ask how long you are likely to have to wait. They say two hours, so go and get a coffee and sit there for two hours before your turn.
POA = 2 Working time = 0
Example 3
You turn up at a new depot you have never visited before only to find a long queue. You get out of the cab and ask how long you are likely to have to wait. They say two hours but tell you that you must stay with your vehicle in case you have to move it. You sit there for two hours before your turn.
POA = 0 Working time = 2
Example 4
You turn up at a new depot you have never visited before only to find a long queue. You get out of the cab and ask how long you are likely to have to wait. They say two hours but tell you that you must stay with your vehicle for saftey reasons. You sit there for two hours before your turn.
POA = 2 Working time = 0
Example 5
You turn up at a location that you visit every week and the queue is as long as usual. You know from experience that it will be two hours before your turn. You can go for a coffee but choose not to, so you sit there for two hours before your turn.
POA = 2 Working time = 0
Solution = Ensure you know how long they are going to be and can leave your vehicle
can leave your vehicle
What the 'eck has that to do with anything 
All that in the quote from the last post was probably written by a certain wind instrument
I can’t talk really as a certain member probably thinks that I am the equivalent of a whole section of wind instruments 
Just to add, I haven’t used a digital tacho yet for work, though I am hoping (is that the right word) to do so very shortly.
Given that ‘they’ had however many years to develop them, they do seem to have made a right pigs ear of it.
WildGoose:
Just to add, I haven’t used a digital tacho yet for work, though I am hoping (is that the right word) to do so very shortly.Given that ‘they’ had however many years to develop them, they do seem to have made a right pigs ear of it.
Don’t worry, neither has Rog, so you can both go off and blow each others equipment
Rog are you right about digi after 2007 setting drive time after a15 then 30 because mine does not but I wish it did
Wheel Nut:
Don’t worry, neither has Rog, so you can both go off and blow each others equipment
I saw that !!!
Rog are you right about digi after 2007 setting drive time after a15 then 30 because mine does not but I wish it did
Don’t think I said that…
ROG:
Doing 3 X 15 mins breaks also seems to reset the driving time when it should not do that as from 2007 the reset time is 15 + 30 - old software again !!
Something else to watch out for with digi tacho’s is that if you change vehicles during a shift, make sure both tacho’s are correctly calibrated. If one is UTC and the other is BST it causes complications.
waddy640:
Something else to watch out for with digi tacho’s is that if you change vehicles during a shift, make sure both tacho’s are correctly calibrated. If one is UTC and the other is BST it causes complications.
Wheel Nut:
waddy640:
Something else to watch out for with digi tacho’s is that if you change vehicles during a shift, make sure both tacho’s are correctly calibrated. If one is UTC and the other is BST it causes complications.
Ok I’ll bite. The time is always the same on the tacho. You can only change it’s actual recording time by + or - 1 minute each week. You can however, change the DISPLAY by an hour (in 30 minute increments) to tally with BST. But this does not alter the recorded time. So no such complications should arise.
grumpybum:
Wheel Nut:
waddy640:
Something else to watch out for with digi tacho’s is that if you change vehicles during a shift, make sure both tacho’s are correctly calibrated. If one is UTC and the other is BST it causes complications.Ok I’ll bite. The time is always the same on the tacho. You can only change it’s actual recording time by + or - 1 minute each week. You can however, change the DISPLAY by an hour (in 30 minute increments) to tally with BST. But this does not alter the recorded time. So no such complications should arise.
Thanks GBum.
The digital tachograph and driver card saves all time entries (including manual
entries) for mode activities in UTC time. Also, all time information on printouts is
shown in UTC time.
If the time on the display has a ■■■■■■■■■ spot next to it then that means the display is set to the local time. However the card, VU and printout will still be in UTC/GMT
The problem occurs when you take the card out of the VU calibrated in BST and immediately put it in a VU calibrated in UTC. You then get an overlap. This then shows up on every printout you do, presumably until overwritten at some future date.
waddy640:
The problem occurs when you take the card out of the VU calibrated in BST and immediately put it in a VU calibrated in UTC. You then get an overlap. This then shows up on every printout you do, presumably until overwritten at some future date.
No you are mistaken. A digital tachograph must be set to UTC / GMT, it doesnt matter whether that truck is from France, Germany or the UK. If the truck is set to BST, then you must defect it and visit an authorised workshop. If the time is 20minutes incorrect this must also be done before it can be used.
A driver can only alter the clock +/- 1 minute per 7 days
Read the post above about the black spot, that can show the local time so you could set that 3 hours in front in Greece but the printout will still read UTC