Not really sure about this to be honest.
as you all know i only drive 2 days a week.
Last week i had an infrindgement sent to me because of this.
left my depot at 0.5.00
arrive at depot at 0.7.30.
told to come back at 09.30 for my bookin in time.
put my tacho on break for a 45,thats ok yea.
tacho was on break for a 2 hour period without me moving.
got on bay and had a 3 hour wait until i was tipped.
i left the tacho on crossed hammers for this period.
i was told i should off been on poa for this waiting time .
someone help please?
Did you know in advance it was going to be three hours? If not then it can’t really be POA. Personally I would have had it on break for that time
Also, how can they send you an infringement for that?
EDIT Just thought about it. Did you mean they are saying the period between 07:30 and 09:30 should have been POA? It could have been either POA, because you knew the length in advance, or break. It still isn’t an infringement.
going for induction and so im told this is one of the topics , p.o.a and how to use it, i dont mind learning how to use it as im sure it will make my working life hell of a lot easier
I agree with Coffeeholic, although booking POA whenever possible allows you to work more hours this will have the effect of keeping your hourly rate down because you have the thought of overtime being available. The 48 hour average week was meant to improve drivers lives, I gather it was the FTA or RHA which pushed for POA.
If you worked in a warehouse all week and drove lets say Saturday and Sunday, then I would have thought that was fine, as the warehouse work does not come under WTD. WTD is for mobile workers… correct■■?
I work in stage production lighting, nowt to do with transport, like acting its here and there, so fill in the time with a spot of driving. If WTD came into my main job, I would have half the year off
As I tend to do a full week driving which mostly goes over a 48 hour average, its offset by the fact I don’t drive every week if I have a gig in, so my average over 17 weeks is below 48 hours per week by a long way, so I have not needed to consider POA.
I have however this week done POA, more to see if the agency are on their toes.
It reads to me POA is a way for a company to keep your hours long and the driver better paid, so really very pointless to the idea of WTD in my book.
Also I would like an opinion on the WTD of a 30 minute break in the first 6 hours being required. With unloading I often get to 6 hours before my 4.5 hours driving is up, so seem to have to take a 30min break or the full 45 before I need to on the tacho and not take a 15min followed by a 30 min, if you follow, the new tacho regs seem to be the wrong way around.
drew128:
If you worked in a warehouse all week and drove lets say Saturday and Sunday, then I would have thought that was fine, as the warehouse work does not come under WTD. WTD is for mobile workers… correct■■?
No idea how it stands under the WTD but under the tacho rules it will be classed as other work and you will need to complete a chart for each of those days. You will also need to comply with the daily and weekly rest requirements, which in the scenario above means you cannot drive both Saturday and Sunday. This would only apply in any week you drove under EU regs, even for just one day.
drew128:
Also I would like an opinion on the WTD of a 30 minute break in the first 6 hours being required.
There is no such requirement.It only states a break is required before exceeding 6 hours work. The minimum break allowed is 15 minutes so that is all you need to take. The further break periods required and when you must take them depend on the length of your working day.
drew128:
the new tacho regs seem to be the wrong way around.
Actually they are the right way round and fully compatible with the WTD, despite claims to the contrary.
THIS THREAD had a big discussion about this with the regs broken down and links to the regulations as published
welshlad:
i was told i should off been on poa for this waiting time .
someone help please?
To qualify for POA, as other have said you need to know that you are going to be there for [insert length of time]. Also you are not required to remain at your workstation (with the lorry), you can but you should not be required to. So if you can’t leave it and go walkies and be able to be recalled to your workstation it isn’t really a Period of Availability, its working time.
Don’t forget, though, that you don’t have to be physically told how long you’ll be…just have reason to make an educated guess. Which covers just about anything you like, really.
Then I wonder about this… I got to a store in Warrington, arrived at 8.00am, but a sign told me that deliveries are not accepted until 9.00am, so sat in the truck until 9.00am. Could this be seen as POA?, but how is this policed anyway, who’s to say if I went for a coffee or that no one actually told me.
If I was to go over the 48 hour average then I would be looking to find creative uses of the mode switch
Andy
edit. Thanks Lucy just pipped me at the post (bad pun)
Mike-C:
So if you can’t leave it and go walkies and be able to be recalled to your workstation it isn’t really a Period of Availability, its working time.
Or break, as long as you get paid for breaks of course.
I started at the agency 4 months ago more to see if I would enjoy it, doing 2 days a week, but it looks as if they would like me to do more, so hence some brushing up.
To me it seems a very odd and ill thought out (WTD) If it was too cut driving hours or make driving a living wage for 48 hours per week then it seems not to have worked and then POA just makes it impossible anyway, its so open ended in its wording.
I started at the agency 4 months ago more to see if I would enjoy it, doing 2 days a week, but it looks as if they would like me to do more, so hence some brushing up.
To me it seems a very odd and ill thought out (WTD) If it was too cut driving hours or make driving a living wage for 48 hours per week then it seems not to have worked and then POA just makes it impossible anyway, its so open ended in its wording.
Andy
A POA is not a BREAK, so the agency would have to state that they will not pay you for POAs
A POA can be a break, if you put the tacho on “rest” for it’s duration …The only difference in the criteria for the two is that POAs have to be known about in advance (see above). In our case, we’re better off using rest in the majority of cases, as it saves wasting time on having a break later…but for others the opposite may be true.
It’s kind of a legal “pick a fiddle” thing, really. Allegedly.
Lucy:
A POA can be a break, if you put the tacho on “rest” for it’s duration …The only difference in the criteria for the two is that POAs have to be known about in advance (see above). In our case, we’re better off using rest in the majority of cases, as it saves wasting time on having a break later…but for others the opposite may be true.
And is exactly why I said it depends on how and what you are paid whether using POA is a good idea.
If it can be counted as POA, it can also be taken as break. (Mode switch needs to be altered.)
If it can’t be classed as POA it can most likely still be taken as break.
drew128:
Then I wonder about this… I got to a store in Warrington, arrived at 8.00am, but a sign told me that deliveries are not accepted until 9.00am, so sat in the truck until 9.00am. Could this be seen as POA?, but how is this policed anyway, who’s to say if I went for a coffee or that no one actually told me.
Yeah you can claim that as POA. VOSA are responsible for monitoring and policing the WTD. Quite how they are going to do it is another matter.
