ROG:
agencies make you take proper breaks by stating that they will not pay you for them - most people will not work for nothing.
Not all agencies. I only get deducted a 45 minute break regardless of how many hours break I have had, and I’ve got tachos from the last few weeks showing anything between 3 and 9 hours of breaks per day.
drew128:
If you worked in a warehouse all week and drove lets say Saturday and Sunday, then I would have thought that was fine, as the warehouse work does not come under WTD. WTD is for mobile workers… correct■■?
No. Far from it. Not only that. there’s a high probability that you’re breaking tacho rules in respect to weekly rest.
Any work that you do other than transport still counts towards working hours both for tachos and the WTD (Mobile). So if you work 5 days in a warehouse, finishing at 5pm on Friday, the earliest you can jump in a wagon is 3am Sat morning (to fulfill the 9hrs min daily rest) and you can’t work any later (if you start at the warehouse at 8am Monday) than 4pm Saturday in order to meet the weekly rest requirement or 8am on Sunday if you’re taking a reduced weekly rest.
WTD covers all workers who have a contract of employment or receive a regular salary or wage. The RTR (Road Transport Regulation) is the part that covers the road transport industry. But it is all part of the WTD and so all work counts whether driving or not.
I stopped reading the replys at Scots he has it in a nutshell, you only work two days a week so it does not come anywhere near to concerning you, and it is YOUR poa not there’s
Drew says hes only doing 2 days agency work a week to see if he likes it, but what exactly is he doing the other 5 days?
Coffeeholic:
Did you know in advance it was going to be three hours? If not then it can’t really be POA. Personally I would have had it on break for that timeAlso, how can they send you an infringement for that?
EDIT Just thought about it. Did you mean they are saying the period between 07:30 and 09:30 should have been POA? It could have been either POA, because you knew the length in advance, or break. It still isn’t an infringement.
OK,if you know in advance it needs 30 minute you can extend the POA if anything goes wrong and it needs at least 3 Hours.
hi All.
i work for agency and i am also in the forces, now we have been told that we do not come under the WTD or at least the strict rules due to my job. so how do i marry that up with when i can drive, if i cannot break any rules at my normal work!!! 
who is going to police all of this anyway■■?
Conor:
Any work that you do other than transport still counts towards working hours both for tachos and the WTD (Mobile).
Not true, any other work you do does not automatically fall under the WTD. Working time under the WTD does not include work for an employer not involved in road transport. It does count as other work with regards to the tacho rules and will therefore effect how much work you can do and when but it doesn’t necessarily have a bearing on the WTD. If you worked in a shop or drove a taxi, for instance, that work would have no bearing on the WTD but it will for the tacho regulations.
I hope you didn’t pay for those WTD courses you went on? So far they haven’t proved to have supplied you with very accurate information. 
Stevie bee:
hi All.
i work for agency and i am also in the forces, now we have been told that we do not come under the WTD or at least the strict rules due to my job. so how do i marry that up with when i can drive, if i cannot break any rules at my normal work!!!
Time spent working for the Armed Forces, including the TA, doesn’t count as working time under the WTD but it will count as other work and all the rest requirements and limits under the tacho rules will apply.
Stevie bee:
who is going to police all of this anyway■■?
VOSA, but a lot of it, such as the whole POA thing, is nigh on impossible to police.
I’m a weekend driver but work in IT Mon-Fri so can only work alternate weekends in order to get a full 45 rest in a two week period. My “full time” job is only 35 hours/week so I’ve no worries about exceeding an average 48 but use POA to give me more flexibility over my breaks. I get paid POA but not break so when I’m delayed I’ll use it to avoid clocking up working time toward my WTD break. This may enable me to delay my break until I want it or can synchronise it with my tacho break. It may prevent me having to take an extra break on a long shift. It may make no difference at all but it won’t cost me anything.
If I got paid for breaks I’d use break - the 2nd run would get delivered 45 minutes earlier, I’d get home 45 mins earlier and the lorry would be available for an extra 45 mins work.
Tony1968:
I’m a weekend driver but work in IT Mon-Fri so can only work alternate weekends in order to get a full 45 rest in a two week period. My “full time” job is only 35 hours/week so I’ve no worries about exceeding an average 48
You are right you have no worries about exceeding the 48 hour average. the 35 hours per week you do in IT does not count toward the WTD/RTD thing. It will count as other work for the tacho regs., which means you do have to take all the break and rest requirements under those, but you are doing that anyway so no worries.
Coffeeholic:
Tony1968:
I’m a weekend driver but work in IT Mon-Fri so can only work alternate weekends in order to get a full 45 rest in a two week period. My “full time” job is only 35 hours/week so I’ve no worries about exceeding an average 48You are right you have no worries about exceeding the 48 hour average. the 35 hours per week you do in IT does not count toward the WTD/RTD thing. It will count as other work for the tacho regs., which means you do have to take all the break and rest requirements under those, but you are doing that anyway so no worries.
Sorry Neil - I have to disagree, I stick by my original point:
WTD covers all workers who have a contract of employment or receive a regular salary or wage. The RTR (Road Transport Regulation) is the part that covers the road transport industry. But it is all part of the WTD and so all work counts whether driving or not.
The WTD originally excluded mobile workers, until a few points were ironed out, giving us the RTR - so we were one of the last industries to be included.
Following your example - some excerpts from the links below:
business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,1311217,00.html
dti.gov.uk/employment/employ … index.html
A worker is:
someone who has a contract of employment, or
someone who is paid a regular salary or wage and works for an organisation, business or individual. Their employer normally provides the worker with work, controls when and how the work is done, supplies them with tools and other equipment, and pays tax and National Insurance contributions. This includes part-time and temporary workers and the majority of agency workers and freelancers.
Does it apply to all workers?
The initial legislation allowed some temporary exemptions where employers in certain sectors argued that they needed time to comply with the law, so at first it failed to provide protection for some workers.
These included people working in transport, those involved in activities at sea and trainee doctors. It has since been extended by a complex piece of legislation called the horizontal amending directive, which was applied to UK law in 2003, to include most of these workers, giving them some or all of the rights. Junior doctors have only been included since August 1 2004.
Coffeeholic:
You are right you have no worries about exceeding the 48 hour average. the 35 hours per week you do in IT does not count toward the WTD/RTD thing.
Yet again…
YES IT DOES. Are you actually going to go and read up on it now?
Conor:
Coffeeholic:
You are right you have no worries about exceeding the 48 hour average. the 35 hours per week you do in IT does not count toward the WTD/RTD thing.Yet again…
YES IT DOES. Are you actually going to go and read up on it now?
I read up on it ages ago Conor.
Now who is charged with policing the WTD as it applies to road transport? Answer VOSA, who are an agent or the Department for Transport. So you have to think the DfT know what is and is not working time, don’t you think?
Lets have a look to see what they have to say on the subject. We can find the information here on their web site. Road Transport (Working Time) Guidance. The bit we need is at Section 2.5 This is what they have to say on the matter if you don’t want to click the links.
2.5 Working for two or more employers or another organisation
For the purposes of the Regulations, working time is restricted to work for employers for whom a mobile worker carries out any in-scope road transport activities (i.e. work covered by the European drivers’ hours rules). It includes both road transport activities and any other work for such employers (for instance when a driver also works in an employer’s warehouse).
It does not include work performed for employers who are not involved in road transport activities (for instance bar work). However, such work would count as part of the “daily working period” for the purposes of determining compliance with the separate European drivers’ hours rules (i.e. bar work will impact on when you can work and how much work you can do).
Similarly, the Regulations, do not apply to workers who work for employers who undertake some road transport activities if the worker in question is not actually involved in such activities. In such cases, the worker would be subject to the requirements of the 1998 Working Time Regulations.
The point you are missing, and is even in one of the links you provided, 
is that unlike the transport industry workers in other sectors can choose to work more than 48 hours if they wish. It says so in The Link You Provided
The basic rights and protections that the Regulations provide are:
a limit of an average of 48 hours a week which a worker can be required to work (though workers can choose to work more if they want to).
And here’s a shocker, it also says it in The Other Link You Provided
What is the opt-out clause?
The opt-out has allowed member states to put in place measures allowing individuals to agree not to be subject to the 48 hour working limit. In other words, they can work for longer if they want to. Britain was the only country at the time to take this action after the negotiations in 1993.Other countries have since put some measures in place for specific areas of work, but Britain has made the most widespread use of it.
The individual opt-out comes with conditions: employees have to formally agree to waive their right to work a maximum of 48 hours a week, a refusal to do so can not entail negative consequences.
Little hint, read the links you are providing first, it avoids that shooting oneself in the foot thing. 
So in the IT case above he isn’t breaking the WTD for that job as he has the right to choose to work more than 48 hours, which means the driving work he does at the weekend isn’t a problem. The IT work doesn’t count as work for the Road Transport WTD, as confirmed by the people who will be attempting to enforce the thing, so he is also complying with that. The only bearing the IT work has on his transport work is with regard to the Tacho regs. and the necessary rest periods and limits.
Conor:
YES IT DOES. Are you actually going to go and read up on it now?
NO IT DOESN’T. Are you actually going to go and seek either your money back for the course you took, or if you didn’t pay for it ask why the things they told you are so wrong? I mean, you are zero for two at the moment.
Your serve.
Conor:
Coffeeholic:
You are right you have no worries about exceeding the 48 hour average. the 35 hours per week you do in IT does not count toward the WTD/RTD thing.Yet again…
YES IT DOES. Are you actually going to go and read up on it now?
yet again !!! One of the first things they teach you in the Army is not to shoot yourself in the foot, you where off on that day !!!
Conor:
Are you actually going to go and read up on it now?
Bump !!!