POA or OTHER WORK

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

After clocking on at work ,I sometimes have to be taken to another yard to pick up a unit, about half hour away, I have been told by my company that this time can be put down as P.O.A. Should it be P.O.A or should it be classed as other work :question: :question: :question:

2

if your not driving then i would put it down to poa :smiley:

jon

3

Personally i would put it down as other work as you have already clocked on

4

I think as you’r a passenger going to pick up a unit, it should be recorded as other work as you wouldn’t be available! :unamused:

5

al owen:
I think as you’r a passenger going to pick up a unit, it should be recorded as other work as you wouldn’t be available! :unamused:

but you are not actually working and you know how long you will take so POA it

6

Why Poa it .As far as i’m concerned if i’m wearing work uniform and have entered there premises then what i do from then until i walk out is work .
Poa is a farce .

7

The definition of POA from the The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005

“period of availability” means a period during which the mobile worker is not required to remain at his workstation, but is required to be available to answer any calls to start or resume driving or to carry out other work

The driver in question isn’t at his workstation so that is okay but while he is available to answer a call he can’t start driving until he reaches the vehicle so in my opinion it would need to be classed as other work as it doesn’t meet the requirements to be POA.

If you run out of hours and your company send a driver to collect you, VOSA regard the time riding back to base as Other Work so I don’t see this as any different to that scenario. They also regard any time spent travelling to somewhere that is not your normal place of work to take over a vehicle as Other Work. There was a European Court ruling in 2001 about this, I know this was pre POA days but this was a summary of the ruling then.

“On a proper construction of Article 15 of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985 on recording equipment in road transport, a driver’s obligation to record all other periods of work extends to: time which a driver necessarily spends travelling to take over a vehicle subject to the obligation to install and use a tachograph and which is not at the driver’s
home or the employer’s operational centre, regardless of whether the employer gave instructions as to when and how to travel or whether that choice was left to the driver”
In coming to their conclusion, the judges state that “**By going to a specific place at some distance from his employer’s operating centre, the driver is performing a task required of him by virtue of his employment relationship.**During that period he does not freely dispose of his time.”

Carrying out a non driving task for your employer can only be Other Work, you can’t be carrying out a task during POA.

8

On the topic of poa i have just started to suss it out anyone know any links where i can learn about poa even though i don,t think it affects us could be wrong thou, :question:
klunk

9

Cheers coffeeholic i,m on the case with that link you must be a mind reader,
klunk

10

hal56:
After clocking on at work ,I sometimes have to be taken to another yard to pick up a unit, about half hour away, I have been told by my company that this time can be put down as P.O.A. Should it be P.O.A or should it be classed as other work :question: :question: :question:

Other work. Quitre simply, you’re not free to dispose of your time (go get a cup of tea etc) whilst leaving yourself available to start work when requested.

11

So haveing read that link it looks the time spent on a ferry is classed as poa so that with that added on to my working week has this got to average less that 48 hrs over 17 weeks :question: I knew i should,nt have read it or should i just forget about it .

12

If you want it to be POA then I would put it down as POA, if not then don’t. Depends if you want to work more than 60 hours a week !?!?!?!

G

13

I know that Neil is going to come back on this with an argument so watertight I’ll drown, but I’m gonna say it anyway! :smiley:

I’ve read that when double-manning, the person not driving can book POA time, even though that doesn’t strictly meet the requirements as he is not free to leave his work-station, but it is there in the list of examples of POA. So surely this scenario would be the same?

I would say POA

Waiting…

14

So the POA does not count towards the 48 hr average :question: some weeks i can have 24 hours plus spent on ferries.
klunk :confused:

15

I’ve changed my mind. :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: I think I was wro… wro… wr… differently correct. :blush: :wink: :smiley: After looking into it a bit further I would say you can class it as POA.

I read through the link I posted earlier and found this.

Periods of availability
6. - (1) A period shall not be treated as a period of availability unless the mobile worker knows before the start of the relevant period about that period of availability and its reasonably foreseeable duration.

(2) The time spent by a mobile worker, who is working as part of a team, travelling in, but not driving, a moving vehicle as part of that team shall be a period of availability for that mobile worker.

(3) Subject to paragraph (4) a period of availability shall not include a period of rest or a break.

(4) A period of availability may include a break taken by a mobile worker during waiting time or time which is not devoted to driving by the mobile worker and is spent in a moving vehicle, a ferry or a train.

The bit in bold is the bit I think covers it here.:blush: :blush: :wink: :smiley:

This is slightly at odds with the VOSA view regarding tacho regs and travelling to collect a vehicle, although as both POA and Other Work count toward your duty time and neither are driving time then it isn’t such a big deal. Just another reason to pretty much ignore the WTD and stick with the tacho rules. The whole POA thing is virtually unenforceable anyway.

16

grumpybum:
I know that Neil is going to come back on this with an argument so watertight I’ll drown, but I’m gonna say it anyway! :smiley:

He ain’t. :blush: :wink:

grumpybum:
I’ve read that when double-manning, the person not driving can book POA time, even though that doesn’t strictly meet the requirements as he is not free to leave his work-station,

Correct

(2) The time spent by a mobile worker, who is working as part of a team, travelling in, but not driving, a moving vehicle as part of that team shall be a period of availability for that mobile worker.

grumpybum:
I would say POA

So would I now. :blush: :wink:

17

klunk/■■■■■■■■
So the POA does not count towards the 48 hr average :question: some weeks i can have 24 hours plus spent on ferries.
klunk :confused:

True. both POA and breaks do not count toward the 48 hour average.

18

Running round doing lap of honour :laughing: :laughing: woohoo!

19

grumpybum:
Running round doing lap of honour :laughing: :laughing: woohoo!

:wink: :smiley: :smiley:
Personally I would be booking it as other work as I tend to ignore the WTD anyway and just stick with the tacho rules and under them it isn’t driving and it isn’t a Break so Other Work will do for me.

20

Don’t spoil it for me Neil - it isn’t often you’re “differently correct” :smiley:

Of course if I’m honest - I agree it should be other work, because you can’t exactly dispose of your time freely, or in the case of double-manning, be away from your work station, unless you’re going to run along behind the vehicle :open_mouth: