Poa is or isn't it rest?

jan_m:
Yes I f.d up with aetr, but he was fined for sure for doing more than 6hrs.

He wasn’t because he didn’t do more than 6 hours. POA does not count toward the 6 hour limit for the WTD, only driving and Other Work count for that. He had not done more than 6 hours of that when he left the delivery point.

jan_m:
Find me then definition of rest and break please. :smiley:

Here you go.

REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006

Article 4

For the purposes of this Regulation the following definitions shall apply:

(d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation;

(f) ‘rest’ means any uninterrupted period during which a driver may freely dispose of his time;

You do not need to be able to dispose of your time freely for a break, only for rest, they are different things.

In simple terms breaks interrupt the shift, rest is at the end of the shift.**

**Unless doing a Split Daily Rest when you would have a rest of at least 3 hours interrupting teh shift.

jan_m:
So… Why?

Why what?

Why was he fined?

Because has has been mentioned many times on this thread it is almost certain that he did 4 hours driving to the delivery point. He then took 3 hours POA which reset the driving timer to zero on the digi tacho head, only on the tacho head it did not reset his actual driving time to zero. He then set off on the return journey and by the time he was stopped he had done more than 30 minutes driving from leaving the delivery point*** and had therefore exceeded 4.5 hours driving without a 45 minute break. If he had taken the 3 hours on POA as break instead, or at least 45 minutes of it, then he would have been in the clear because that would have reset his available driving time before his next required tacho break to 4.5 hours. He could have done this and avoided the fine because if he was able to go on POA he was certainly able to take a break.

***Based on the amount fined and assuming he had done exactly 4 hours driving, as stated by OP, before he departed for the return journey he was stopped somewhere between 30 and 89 minutes into his return journey

Ok. At least I know something new too. However he would say how much drive he had done when visa asked him for a " check".

jan_m:
Ok. At least I know something new too. However he would say how much drive he had done when visa asked him for a " check".

Based on the fine he had done somewhere between 4 hours 30 minutes and 5 hours 29 minutes. If he had driven more than that the fine would have been more.

Why does poa reset driving time on these digi tachos? Seems odd a new bit if kit can have such a misleading fault in it and still carry approval

Freight Dog:
Why does poa reset driving time on these digi tachos? Seems odd a new bit if kit can have such a misleading fault in it and still carry approval

How digital tachos handle break and POA of at least 15 minutes and resetting the driving time when it reaches 45 minutes is how the tachograph legislation was written in 2002. At that point we didn’t have POA so it hadn’t been decided how it would be regarded. The current driver’s hours regulations came in during 2007 but the tachograph legislation hasn’t changed so the units are manufactured as per the regulations that affect them and as such are not faulty.

It could be argued the fault is with drivers who should know that POA isn’t break and should know whether they have had sufficient break to enable them to continue driving. :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the fill in coffeeholic.

Much as I appreciate the reasons I don’t agree with it. Anathema to me. For such a vital bit of kit - bit of kit that carries penalties for being out of calibration, being tampered with or out of hours by reference to this very unit. You fiddle with this box and you’re gonna get hit. A bit of kit, the no brain by-the-rule DVSA get a hard on over. To have out of date software that provides incorrect information to the user is laughably ridiculous. Whatever the reasons due to (irrelevant) historic legislation. I’m stunned.

Thanks guys. I know know that not to use Poa as break. Not that I have ever had cause to use it in my daily life. It’s basically a way to get paid legally for doing more than 60 hours std.

Freight Dog:
Thanks for the fill in coffeeholic.

Much as I appreciate the reasons I don’t agree with it. Anathema to me. For such a vital bit of kit - bit of kit that carries penalties for being out of calibration, being tampered with or out of hours by reference to this very unit. You fiddle with this box and you’re gonna get hit. A bit of kit, the no brain by-the-rule DVSA get a hard on over. To have out of date software that provides incorrect information to the user is laughably ridiculous. Whatever the reasons due to (irrelevant) historic legislation. I’m stunned.

midlifetrucker:
Thanks guys. I now know that not to use Poa as break. Not that I have ever had cause to use it in my daily life. It’s basically a way to get paid legally for doing more than 60 hours std.