Roymondo:
midlifetrucker:
So what is the point of PoaThe whole point of it is to allow drivers who are not paid for their breaks to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) while not actually working and eating into their permitted “working hours”. In other words, it’s a fudge designed to circumnavigate the Working Time Directive.
Excellently put that makes sense now
Roymondo:
midlifetrucker:
So what is the point of PoaThe whole point of it is to allow drivers who are not paid for their breaks to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) while not actually working and eating into their permitted “working hours”. In other words, it’s a fudge designed to circumnavigate the Working Time Directive.
I am classed as driving if I am in my vehicle with the engine running (mobile phone fine) so if I am at work then I am working (breaks excepted) so POA is never used as I can’t not be working if I’m working 
H.
midlifetrucker:
Weather should be whether if we want to be pedantic
Blame auto correct
Honked:
Roymondo:
midlifetrucker:
So what is the point of PoaThe whole point of it is to allow drivers who are not paid for their breaks to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) while not actually working and eating into their permitted “working hours”. In other words, it’s a fudge designed to circumnavigate the Working Time Directive.
I am classed as driving if I am in my vehicle with the engine running (mobile phone fine) so if I am at work then I am working (breaks excepted) so POA is never used as I can’t not be working if I’m working
H.
Why the [ZB] would you put it on POA with the engine running■■?
Radar19:
I’ve been told by drivers at RDC’s not to bother with it. Causes more hassle than its worth apparently.
Ahhhh… the home of all the belters, to the RDC Bull ZB thread with you
Have you heard about the chalked tyres yet?
I would have thought the DCPC would have corrected people’s thinking on this, but clearly not. Am I right in guessing the same drivers say Manual Entries cause more hassle than it’s worth too 
Just put it in and OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK DRIVE.
trubster:
Honked:
Roymondo:
midlifetrucker:
So what is the point of PoaThe whole point of it is to allow drivers who are not paid for their breaks to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) while not actually working and eating into their permitted “working hours”. In other words, it’s a fudge designed to circumnavigate the Working Time Directive.
I am classed as driving if I am in my vehicle with the engine running (mobile phone fine) so if I am at work then I am working (breaks excepted) so POA is never used as I can’t not be working if I’m working
H.
Why the [ZB] would you put it on POA with the engine running■■?
To keep the heated mirrors on silly 
Honked:
Roymondo:
midlifetrucker:
So what is the point of PoaThe whole point of it is to allow drivers who are not paid for their breaks to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) while not actually working and eating into their permitted “working hours”. In other words, it’s a fudge designed to circumnavigate the Working Time Directive.
I am classed as driving if I am in my vehicle with the engine running (mobile phone fine) so if I am at work then I am working (breaks excepted) so POA is never used as I can’t not be working if I’m working
H.
No, you are only classed as “driving” (for the purposes of Drivers’ Hours legislation) if the wheels are turning. Sitting in a stationary lorry with the engine running would normally be classed as Other Work, Break or POA (although for a short period it could be classed as Driving if the wheels turned immediately before or after the period in question).
trubster:
Radar19:
I’ve been told by drivers at RDC’s not to bother with it. Causes more hassle than its worth apparently.Ahhhh… the home of all the belters, to the RDC Bull ZB thread with you
Have you heard about the chalked tyres yet?
I would have thought the DCPC would have corrected people’s thinking on this, but clearly not. Am I right in guessing the same drivers say Manual Entries cause more hassle than it’s worth too
If the dcpc was delivered by professionals not fly by nights
[/quote]
The only time you would need to do that would be if you had done exactly 4.5 hours driving. The rules clearly state that on completing 4.5 hours driving a driver must immediately take a break, or begin a rest period.
After a driving period of no more than 4.5 hours, a driver must immediately take a break of at least 45 minutes unless he takes a rest period.
That means you can only go on break or rest at 4.5 hours, no other work or POA.
Doesn’t seem to have been the case here as he is said to have only done 4 hours so the most likely explanation is he exceeded the 4.5 hours on the return journey because he assumed POA was break.
Or it just driver/RDC BS.
[/quote]
Hasn’t the driver got another (roughly, assuming no walk-around check booked) 90 minutes ‘other work’ time left before he has to take a working time break? and having complied with that requirement, carry on ‘other working’ up to 9 hours? when at that point he has take another working time break and review how long this breaks needs to be so that he can resume driving immediately afterwards?
trubster:
Radar19:
I’ve been told by drivers at RDC’s not to bother with it. Causes more hassle than its worth apparently.Ahhhh… the home of all the belters, to the RDC Bull ZB thread with you
Have you heard about the chalked tyres yet?
I would have thought the DCPC would have corrected people’s thinking on this, but clearly not. Am I right in guessing the same drivers say Manual Entries cause more hassle than it’s worth too
Been told that one too.
cav551:
Coffeeholic:
The only time you would need to do that would be if you had done exactly 4.5 hours driving. The rules clearly state that on completing 4.5 hours driving a driver must immediately take a break, or begin a rest period.After a driving period of no more than 4.5 hours, a driver must immediately take a break of at least 45 minutes unless he takes a rest period.
That means you can only go on break or rest at 4.5 hours, no other work or POA.
Doesn’t seem to have been the case here as he is said to have only done 4 hours so the most likely explanation is he exceeded the 4.5 hours on the return journey because he assumed POA was break
Or it just driver/RDC BS.
Hasn’t the driver got another (roughly, assuming no walk-around check booked) 90 minutes ‘other work’ time left before he has to take a working time break? and having complied with that requirement, carry on ‘other working’ up to 9 hours? when at that point he has take another working time break and review how long this breaks needs to be so that he can resume driving immediately afterwards?
I wasn’t talking about a working time break, I was referring to a driving break for the tacho regs. On reaching 4.5 hours driving the only option is break or begin a rest period, nothing else. You cannot do any other work until you’ve had your 45 minutes for the tacho regs, the rules are very clear on this.
Also there is no requirement for a break at 9 hours for the working time directive. It’s six hours working time which triggers those breaks. So, if you took a minimum 15 minute break at 6 hours the next break, assuming no driving break required, would not be required until 12 hours 15 minutes - 6 hours work, 15 minute break, 6 hours work - or before the end of the shift whichever comes first.
Roymondo:
Honked:
Roymondo:
midlifetrucker:
So what is the point of PoaThe whole point of it is to allow drivers who are not paid for their breaks to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) while not actually working and eating into their permitted “working hours”. In other words, it’s a fudge designed to circumnavigate the Working Time Directive.
I am classed as driving if I am in my vehicle with the engine running (mobile phone fine) so if I am at work then I am working (breaks excepted) so POA is never used as I can’t not be working if I’m working
H.
No, you are only classed as “driving” (for the purposes of Drivers’ Hours legislation) if the wheels are turning. Sitting in a stationary lorry with the engine running would normally be classed as Other Work, Break or POA (although for a short period it could be classed as Driving if the wheels turned immediately before or after the period in question).
OK, let me clarify for you.
For the purpose of being fined for using a mobile phone, I can be in a stationary vehicle and classed as driving.
For the purpose of the WTD, POA is not working time even though I am at work and being paid to work. Therefore POA is never used.
Hope that simplifies it for you
H.
I fell foul of this a few week ago at tesco Livingston,
Drove up from Warrington, 4h26m banged it on POA while I did paperwork and to goods in which clicked up 46 mins and reset drive, and I thought lovely jubbly 4h25m drive back. Wrongo!!!
I like to think of POA as a ‘hole’ in the fabric of space time, where time and space no longer exist. Hope it helps 
MikeDBristol:
I like to think of POA as a ‘hole’ in the fabric of space time, where time and space no longer exist. Hope it helps
Very good
I used to think of POA as hanging on a wire. You’re just on standby or on-call. If I was told a tip definately wasn’t ready for 3 hours I’d stick it on break and go to bed/watch iplayer but if in a drivers waiting room and told to wait for the next unit to come in or go and wait in lorry and youll be called when a bay is ready, I’d call that being on standby, POA. Both involve you not doing a lot but one you can relax without having to be available.
Could a agency driver be held captive in a drivers restroom on 15hrs POA?
Discuss?
Reference Annex 2 in the rules. It’s states:-
"must not exceed an average of 48 hours per week over the reference period. "
We know this “work” does not include breaks or POA.
Further on annex 2 states:-
“Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.”
So it’s this use of the word “work”. As previously cited work for the sakes of the 48 hours excludes POA, so by virtue if the same definition if you must not “work” more than 6 hours without a break then that discounts POA. So technically according to their terribly written manual, yes you can sit there 15 hours on POA. But I bet that’s not something they had in mind when they wrote it.
chester:
Could a agency driver be held captive in a drivers restroom on 15hrs POA?Discuss?
No, because you will have done some work
if your on POA you can expect to
return to work in a trice, whereas
when on a break you would restart at
the end of it.