Carryfast:
If it’s a caravan/close coupled type drawbar outfit it’s not train weight at all it’s combination weight just like an artic.Train weight is only for A frame type drawbars.If you’ve got a close coupled type and drop the nose weight of the trailer onto a maxed out 18 tonner it’s obvious that you’ll put the 18 tonner over on rear axle weight and gross.
All that because the guvnors can’t understand the benefits of the A frame type.
Train weight and combination weight are the same thing.
No they aren’t.Which is why an artic or B train coupled type outfit is Gross Combination Weight and a drawbar outfit is Gross Train weight.If they were the same thing then you could load a caravan type the same as an A frame type.In which case how would you deal with the extra nose weight of the trailer if you’re already maxed out on the prime mover before you’ve coupled it .
Welshmale60:
This is what he must have been on about then combination/close coupled wich in this case it’s close coupled caravan type not a frame
The surprising thing is that many guvnors don’t know the difference when they spec a close coupled type drawbar outfit and then think they can load the prime mover to max weight and then drop the nose weight of a caravan/close coupled trailer onto it.Train weight means no weight transferred between trailer and prime mover and that requires an A frame type drawbar trailer.
Welshmale60:
Lorry all ok trailer ok just ticked me off for very close to the weight limit
how can you get ticked off for being very close to the limit??
and combined with the explanation (if you’ve got it how it was said) on using the trailer, then it sounds like the dude didn’t have a clue what he was on about
That is like the thing with the policeman clipping your ear when you haven’t done anything wrong
Welshmale60:
This is what he must have been on about then combination/close coupled wich in this case it’s close coupled caravan type not a frame
The surprising thing is that many guvnors don’t know the difference when they spec a close coupled type drawbar outfit and then think they can load the prime mover to max weight and then drop the nose weight of a caravan/close coupled trailer onto it.Train weight means no weight transferred between trailer and prime mover and that requires an A frame type drawbar trailer.
This is even more complicated
It’s not complicated at all.If an 18 tonner is maxed out on weight that means it can’t take any more. But a caravan/close coupled type trailer has a nose weight similar to the way in which a semi trailer does so that has to be subtracted from the load on the prime mover rear axle.Unlike an A frame trailer which has it’s own front axle or dolly so the prime mover can be loaded to max weight and the trailer.
Welshmale60:
This is what he must have been on about then combination/close coupled wich in this case it’s close coupled caravan type not a frame
The surprising thing is that many guvnors don’t know the difference when they spec a close coupled type drawbar outfit and then think they can load the prime mover to max weight and then drop the nose weight of a caravan/close coupled trailer onto it.Train weight means no weight transferred between trailer and prime mover and that requires an A frame type drawbar trailer.
This is even more complicated
It’s not complicated at all.If an 18 tonner is maxed out on weight that means it can’t take any more. But a caravan/close coupled type trailer has a nose weight similar to the way in which a semi trailer does so that has to be subtracted from the load on the prime mover rear axle.Unlike an A frame trailer which has it’s own front axle or dolly so the prime mover can be loaded to max weight and the trailer.
But it doesnt matter what trailer type you have, neither one means you can carry more than another,
Not disagreeing with you but from someone elses point of view it looks like your saying an a frame can carry more weight.
Welshmale60:
This is what he must have been on about then combination/close coupled wich in this case it’s close coupled caravan type not a frame
The surprising thing is that many guvnors don’t know the difference when they spec a close coupled type drawbar outfit and then think they can load the prime mover to max weight and then drop the nose weight of a caravan/close coupled trailer onto it.Train weight means no weight transferred between trailer and prime mover and that requires an A frame type drawbar trailer.
This is even more complicated
It’s not complicated at all.If an 18 tonner is maxed out on weight that means it can’t take any more. But a caravan/close coupled type trailer has a nose weight similar to the way in which a semi trailer does so that has to be subtracted from the load on the prime mover rear axle.Unlike an A frame trailer which has it’s own front axle or dolly so the prime mover can be loaded to max weight and the trailer.
But it doesnt matter what trailer type you have, neither one means you can carry more than another,
Not disagreeing with you but from someone elses point of view it looks like your saying an a frame can carry more weight.
All I want to know is what can a full 10 ton rigid making it 18 ton pull on a close coulpled drawbar trailer sorry to be a pain
Welshmale60:
This is what he must have been on about then combination/close coupled wich in this case it’s close coupled caravan type not a frame
The surprising thing is that many guvnors don’t know the difference when they spec a close coupled type drawbar outfit and then think they can load the prime mover to max weight and then drop the nose weight of a caravan/close coupled trailer onto it.Train weight means no weight transferred between trailer and prime mover and that requires an A frame type drawbar trailer.
This is even more complicated
It’s not complicated at all.If an 18 tonner is maxed out on weight that means it can’t take any more. But a caravan/close coupled type trailer has a nose weight similar to the way in which a semi trailer does so that has to be subtracted from the load on the prime mover rear axle.Unlike an A frame trailer which has it’s own front axle or dolly so the prime mover can be loaded to max weight and the trailer.
But it doesnt matter what trailer type you have, neither one means you can carry more than another,
Not disagreeing with you but from someone elses point of view it looks like your saying an a frame can carry more weight.
In the real world,in which the caravan type imposes a nose weight onto the rear of the prime mover,the A frame type can carry more weight than the caravan type because a caravan type outfit needs a decent nose weight to remain stable and that nose weight needs to be removed from the rear axle of a maxed out prime mover to keep the prime mover within it’s gross axle and gross weight limit.
Welshmale60:
This is what he must have been on about then combination/close coupled wich in this case it’s close coupled caravan type not a frame
The surprising thing is that many guvnors don’t know the difference when they spec a close coupled type drawbar outfit and then think they can load the prime mover to max weight and then drop the nose weight of a caravan/close coupled trailer onto it.Train weight means no weight transferred between trailer and prime mover and that requires an A frame type drawbar trailer.
This is even more complicated
It’s not complicated at all.If an 18 tonner is maxed out on weight that means it can’t take any more. But a caravan/close coupled type trailer has a nose weight similar to the way in which a semi trailer does so that has to be subtracted from the load on the prime mover rear axle.Unlike an A frame trailer which has it’s own front axle or dolly so the prime mover can be loaded to max weight and the trailer.
But it doesnt matter what trailer type you have, neither one means you can carry more than another,
Not disagreeing with you but from someone elses point of view it looks like your saying an a frame can carry more weight.
All I want to know is what can a full 10 ton rigid making it 18 ton pull on a close coulpled drawbar trailer sorry to be a pain
No.At least not before the nose weight of the trailer has been removed from the rear axle of the prime mover first.Simples
Saaamon:
with the example you’ve given there you’d have overloaded the unit but could still be legal on your axle weights.
I’d of thought this an impossibility. Its either within the constraints of its authorised train weight/MAM/GVTW whatever you wanna call it or its not. You can’t weigh them seperatley tractor/trailer? It just needs to comply with its authorised axle weights and authorised mass.
Welshmale60:
All I want to know is what can a full 10 ton rigid making it 18 ton pull on a close coulpled drawbar trailer sorry to be a pain
Inside your cab footwell, door jar, or in the passeger side there will be a VOSA plating certificate. It will say on it exactly what the vehicles authorised maximum is when pulling a trailer. It will say something like this…
You need to look at the train weight. Forget all this A frame/nose weight/tractor overloading malarkey. All you need to know is that you don’t exceed your train weight or your axle weights. Axle weights for the trailer will be on a similar plate on the trailer.
Saaamon:
with the example you’ve given there you’d have overloaded the unit but could still be legal on your axle weights.
I’d of thought this an impossibility. Its either within the constraints of its authorised train weight/MAM/GVTW whatever you wanna call it or its not. You can’t weigh them seperatley tractor/trailer? It just needs to comply with its authorised axle weights and authorised mass.
There’s no way that the gross train weight of an A frame drawbar outfit and the gross combination weight of a close coupled trailer outfit can be the same thing.Because the latter would impose an extra nose weight on the already maxed out prime mover unlike the A frame outfit.
Welshmale60:
All I want to know is what can a full 10 ton rigid making it 18 ton pull on a close coulpled drawbar trailer sorry to be a pain
Inside your cab footwell, door jar, or in the passeger side there will be a VOSA plating certificate. It will say on it exactly what the vehicles authorised maximum is when pulling a trailer. It will say something like this…
You need to look at the train weight. Forget all this A frame/nose weight/tractor overloading malarkey. All you need to know is that you don’t exceed your train weight or your axle weights. Axle weights for the trailer will be on a similar plate on the trailer.
It’s obvious that a maxed out 18 tonner will be maxed out on it’s axle weights and gross weights.If you drop the nose weight of a close coupled trailer on the back after that it will obviously put the thing over on gross and rear axle weight.In which case you’ll need to subtract that noseweight from the Train Weight figure which is based on pulling an A frame trailer not a close coupled one.
Saaamon:
with the example you’ve given there you’d have overloaded the unit but could still be legal on your axle weights.
I’d of thought this an impossibility. Its either within the constraints of its authorised train weight/MAM/GVTW whatever you wanna call it or its not. You can’t weigh them seperatley tractor/trailer? It just needs to comply with its authorised axle weights and authorised mass.
There’s no way that the gross train weight of an A frame drawbar outfit and the gross combination weight of a close coupled trailer outfit can be the same thing.Because the latter would impose an extra nose weight on the already maxed out prime mover unlike the A frame outfit.
You’re making this very complicated when its really quite straightforeward. You can’t max out a prime mover with nose weight unless you exceed its train weight or an axle weight. The clue here is in the higher level of train weight. If it was like you are trying to suggest they would tell you the maximum authorised trailer weight you can pull, they don’t seperate them like this. Its a train weight , thats all.
Carryfast:
It’s obvious that a maxed out 18 tonner will be maxed out on it’s axle weights and gross weights.
Its not obvious that its maxed out on its axle weights, as there’s usually substansial leeway between axle totals and max weight.
Carryfast:
If you drop the nose weight of a close coupled trailer on the back after that
it becomes a train weight…
Carryfast:
it will obviously put the thing over on gross and rear axle weight.
In which case you’ll need to subtract that noseweight from the Train Weight figure which is based on pulling an A frame trailer not a close coupled one.
Nah, no need for complicated maths, noseweights etc… just make sure you don;t exceed the gross train or gross axles, thats all. Makes me wonder how them two axle tractor units get on having to pull 38T train weight !!! Maybe they get the nose weight weighers out, or maybe they just do like i say ?
I think the easy way to look at it, is that an A-frame trailer has no affect on the weight of the prime mover as an A frame has its own axle at the front therefor stopping any weight transfer to the already fully maxed out prime moved.
Where as a drag trailer/caravan type is more like a sea-saw, if you load it at the front then that will put more weight on the rear axle of the prime mover as the weight would have transferred through the tow bar.
No one can answer your question because when this type of trailer is loaded, the ‘nose’ weight alters according to how heavy each pallet is and where it is on the trailer.
cav551:
Carryfast is spot on with what he is saying.
No one can answer your question because when this type of trailer is loaded, the ‘nose’ weight alters according to how heavy each pallet is and where it is on the trailer.
Ok so just an example 6 ton on the rigid 10’ton on the close coupled trailer would this be legal
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