pickett line

[dadsretired]

The only ones in a union that seem to do well out of most things are the ones at the top.

They are the ones telling you to go on strike, but hang on, dont you pay their very bloated wages? They dont go on strike, just tell others to. Not very fair is it?

Your boss pays your wages so cant he tell you what to do?

Just think, if you left a union, the fatcat at the top would have to take home a lower wage, the mouthpiece in your yard would have to take a pay cut and you would have more money in your pocket each week to spend down the pub. Win win really is it not?

[scarab]

Carryfast:
If your employer decides to cut your wages overnight to minimum wage there’s not much point in ‘going elsewhere’ if all the other bosses do the same.

If all the other bosses do the same then the industry obviously can’t support the kind of lifestyle I want to lead then I shall have to change careers.

What I won’t do is spend time whinging when I could be working. Either accept the terms, or go elsewhere, be it another job in the same industry, a similar one, or an entirely different one. I work to live, and I hope that by walking the bosses will get the message that It’s not a suitable work/life balance, for whatever reason. But If it isn’t my job, by contract, to dictate the direction of the company then I have no illusions as to it suddenly becoming so when it takes my fancy.

[del949]

If my employer does something I don’t like then I’ll go elsewhere.

sorry, that still translates as “run away” to me.

If unions were so bad and independance was so good, then why
in a time when unions have been weak for the last 25 years or so, is the job going downhill instead of uphill.
if your argument that unions are not needed is correct, then we should all be on cloud 9 by now.

We had a union man who called a strike if his morning mugga was late or not up to temperature, he called for a strike because someone else was sent out in “his” lorry

more fool you for not insisting on a ballot.

The unions agreed to the RTD and POA,

the bosses insisted on the POA, the unions only accepted it because it was the only way to get the WTD in to force.
As far as I understand the law, POA is voluntary from the drivers point of view (I will happily be corrected on that).

it’s been more in their employers’ interests to settle instead of getting involved in a prolonged dispute with a specialised sector of the industry that needs special ADR qualifications

exactly their point of view, they have strength in unity because it is cheaper to give in to them than to fight them.

Without the powers that they had before the 1980’s there’s absolutely no point in unions because they can’t actually do anything that the employers or the government don’t agree with

]

Not so, See the quote re fuel drivers above
Unions have never had power per se.
their power comes from the will of the members, even in todays climate if enough drivers were members and enough voted for action to improve things and did the actions, then changes would be made.
A union as an entity is a pretty pointless thing, it is the members who are the strength, the leaders are only there to organise the members efforts not to direct or control.

I never have and never will claim that unions are all that is good, but on balance the drivers of this country are better off with them than without them and if more drivers joined and PARTICIPATED then things would improve all round.
If bosses need unions, CBI and RTA etc then so do we. the difference is that their unions don’t need to fight the government at the same time.

Either accept the terms, or go elsewhere, be it another job in the same industry, a similar one, or an entirely different one.

A longer version of “Run away”

[del949]

I wouldn’t cross a picket line in my own company but elsewhere I’d have to weigh up the circumstances and decide for myself whether or not I thought the picket was justified

.

I respect that.

Even as an opponent of the unions you have enough integrity to judge a situation on merit and not rule out honouring a picket line because "it upsets the union men "

[rambo19]

jacknife:
Scab Scum if you cross a pickett line

So if you were delivering to a hospital, and it was vital medical equipment, or delivering to a tube station when the tube drivers(greedy gits) are on strike, would you cross?

[philtvc65]

To really pour some petrol on this fire, I worked for TNT Express, I would definetly cross a picket line, didn’t work for Newsfast when the Wapping thing was going on. I was verbally abused going through London one night, going on about me being a scab , though I wasn’t even at TNT then. So, I dragged my 6’ 2’’ 19 stone American Football player body out of the cab and he wasn’t so keen, so I pointed out the error of his ways. My now ex-American Football body can hardly climb the cab stairs without creeking . I agree drivers should strike for better everything, the beauty is we don’t need another unions’ help, we can crush any government if we so want but it will never happen, we don’t have the will or inclination.

[wheel_nut]

del949:

We had a union man who called a strike if his morning mugga was late or not up to temperature, he called for a strike because someone else was sent out in “his” lorry

more fool you for not insisting on a ballot.

I didn’t say he got his own way

The best days work was when the company actually managed to sack him for gross misconduct.

Last time I saw him was driving a skip lorry for a scrap yard, I doubt there was much union representation there

[red_squirrel]

gnasty gnome:
@ Red Squirrel; back in the early 80’s I had to join the TGWU in order to work at BRS on agency, as it was then a closed shop.

I said agency workers weren’t allowed to join some of the trade unions until recently.
In the nineties and noughties they might have had difficulty trying to join the trade union at the place they were working.
This has been an issue at TUC conferences in the past few years and most unions will not only now allow agency workers to join but have begun campaigning to get them involved. It remains to be seen how far this will go towards the wider inclusion of the hitherto alienated members of the workforce however.

[coffeeholic]

del949:
and while you are blowing kisses they are probably wondering why someone who gets shafted by the law, the employer, the public and pretty much everyone, isn’t prepared to do the same to improve their own jobs.

And in return I could wonder who they are wondering about because that hasn’t been my situation for the nearly 28 years I’ve been doing this job. The job I hear union people describing in relation to this industry bears very little resemblance to the one I’ve experienced since 1984.

[philtvc65]

Red Squirrell, weren’t you in the Police, you are not allowed to strike, my uncle was old bill.

[del949]

you are one of the fortunate few coffee, you have only to read the posts on here to see that,

I agree drivers should strike for better everything, the beauty is we don’t need another unions’ help, we can crush any government if we so want but it will never happen, we don’t have the will or inclination.

true you don’t need any unions help, as long as someone is prepared to organise you.
Someone who will do the necessary paperwork, organise meetings, do the negotiations, make press releases and all the other 101 jobs that are involved in a major dispute.
Until that time you do need to someone to do it for you, and really thats ALL a union is.
So, why don’t we have the will or inclination, are we all shivering wrecks who are scared of their own shadows (in fairness, I have to say that I am retired so am not likely to be in a position to lose much).
I understand what its like to have a mortgage and kids, I’ve been there, and know the fear of going into dispute and not being able to feed them, but, I have never walked from a job before attempting to put it right. Sometimes I have won others I haven’t.
for the last 30 years of my working life I worked at two unionised shops, neither were confrontational and always had good relations with the unions concerned.
As a result I was able to retire at 60 with a pension, nice bungalow on the coast paid for, decent car, min 6 weeks abroad every year and money in the bank.
In addition during my last 5 years of work I had over 6 months off sick on full pay (inc night shift allowance) twice.
during my entire career I have been on strike for a total of 26 days (during the big one) and every penny I lost has been recouped many times over since then.
I was never a shop steward or anything like that, although I am a branch sec. now
Do I believe in unions if you are prepared to get involved and do something?
You can bet your sweetarse I do !
YOU GET OUT OF LIFE WHAT YOU PUT IN, SAME WITH UNIONS

[carryfast]

del949:

it’s been more in their employers’ interests to settle instead of getting involved in a prolonged dispute with a specialised sector of the industry that needs special ADR qualifications

exactly their point of view, they have strength in unity because it is cheaper to give in to them than to fight them.

Without the powers that they had before the 1980’s there’s absolutely no point in unions because they can’t actually do anything that the employers or the government don’t agree with

]

Not so, See the quote re fuel drivers above
Unions have never had power per se.
their power comes from the will of the members, even in todays climate if enough drivers were members and enough voted for action to improve things and did the actions, then changes would be made.
If bosses need unions, CBI and RTA etc then so do we. the difference is that their unions don’t need to fight the government at the same time.

Either accept the terms, or go elsewhere, be it another job in the same industry, a similar one, or an entirely different one.

But as I said it’s probably only a matter of time before the tanker drivers find themselves in the position of the management having decided that push has come to shove which they’ve (so far),just like the miners during the 1970’s dispute with Heath,compared to Maggie’s methods of dealing with the situation,haven’t had to deal with.Yet.

It’s only at that point when they’d find out that they’ve overestimated just how much power that any union has when it has to take action on a piecemeal basis without the strength of secondary action being available to it.The army maybe with the help of tanker qualified agency personnel could probably keep sufficient fuel supplies going assuming that the bosses have chosen when and how to provoke the action and are prepared for it and if they can show the public that there’s no need for panic buying which at these prices would be less likely anyway.

The idea that it’s the individual members who hold the power is contradictory to the idea of unions and there’s no way that union power can come at the will of the individual members in a situation where the main British tendency is more towards strike breaking and looking after number 1 than it is towards support and cooperation and in which secondary action laws effectively stop the unions working in an organised cooperative way.Which is why there’s been so many issues in the past involving picketting.When if there was real solidarity there would have been no need for it at all.

As for the issue of not bothering with unions if someone doesn’t like the job go elsewhere,that’s effectively what we’ve had since the late 1970’s and early 1980’s when the public services unions didn’t get any support from the rest of the union movement and when Thatcher defeated the miners without the TUC calling a general strike (they probably wouldn’t have got any support from enough of the British work force nationally anyway even if they did).The results are here now all around us with oversupply of the labour market because of de industrialisation and a resulting massive balance of payments problem and wage levels which are falling behind prices at an ever increasing rate.

Maybe the idea would work if truck driving or working in a warehouse etc etc doesn’t pay enough then anyone could just get a job as a banker or an MP on a banker or MP’s salary instead.

[red_squirrel]

philtvc65:
Red Squirrell, weren’t you in the Police, you are not allowed to strike, my uncle was old bill.

No I wasn’t, but there’s another group that’s lost a lot of respect from the public since the miners’ strikes of the 1980’s…

[bubsy06]

Why is there never a line at a picket line?

[carryfast]

del949:
If bosses need unions, CBI and RTA etc then so do we. the difference is that their unions don’t need to fight the government at the same time.

The ironic thing is that too often that government has been a Labour one such as Wilson,Callaghan and Healey,Blair and now that backsatabbing zb Miliband.

[coffeeholic]

del949:
you are one of the fortunate few coffee, you have only to read the posts on here to see that

I would say you only have to see through the posts on here, and I don’t just mean the BS ones of which there are plenty, and see that most of the complaints and big issues aren’t really that big and more often than not are of the driver’s own making. Often it can be through a lack of knowledge of the regulations. When you know them they are very much weighted in the driver’s favour and can be used far more to your advantage to work the way you want to than that of the company and you don’t need a strike or a union for that.

Another prime reason for complaints is jealousy. I’ve never bothered about what another driver is getting for his run, what vehicle he is driving or the hours he is doing as long as I was happy with my lot and again no strike or union needed.

Office staff is another ‘major issue’. You just have to train them until they realise phoning up and asking where you are or what time you will be there is a waste of their time and effort for example. That’s usually easily accomplished over time and doesn’t need a picket line to do. It’s not perfect that one because sometimes they haven’t been there long enough to train and then you end up trying to get across the office to ‘have words’ and them and it all going pear shaped but that’s life.

[coffeeholic]

bubsy06:
Why is there never a line at a picket line?

Forming a line would involve sticking together and in the case of a driver’s picket line it ain’t going to happen.

[coffeeholic]

Red Squirrel:

philtvc65:
Red Squirrell, weren’t you in the Police, you are not allowed to strike, my uncle was old bill.

No I wasn’t, but there’s another group that’s lost a lot of respect from the public since the miners’ strikes of the 1980’s…

Can I just point out that as an early adopter I had no respect for them in the 1970’s.

[carryfast]

Coffeeholic:

del949:
you are one of the fortunate few coffee, you have only to read the posts on here to see that

I would say you only have to see through the posts on here, and I don’t just mean the BS ones of which there are plenty, and see that most of the complaints and big issues aren’t really that big and more often than not are of the driver’s own making. Often it can be through a lack of knowledge of the regulations. When you know them they are very much weighted in the driver’s favour and can be used far more to your advantage to work the way you want to than that of the company and you don’t need a strike or a union for that.

Another prime reason for complaints is jealousy. I’ve never bothered about what another driver is getting for his run, what vehicle he is driving or the hours he is doing as long as I was happy with my lot and again no strike or union needed.

Office staff is another ‘major issue’. You just have to train them until they realise phoning up and asking where you are or what time you will be there is a waste of their time and effort for example. That’s usually easily accomplished over time and doesn’t need a picket line to do. It’s not perfect that one because sometimes they haven’t been there long enough to train and then you end up trying to get across the office to ‘have words’ and them and it all going pear shaped but that’s life.

Blimey so there’s no issues in the road transport industry of too many drivers chasing too few jobs because the economy in general has been zb’d up by wage restraint together with massive price and tax increases resulting in not enough people having enough money to spend to keep the economy moving and money being paid out in fuel taxation which should be going back into the industry.

[coffeeholic]

Carryfast:

Coffeeholic:

del949:
you are one of the fortunate few coffee, you have only to read the posts on here to see that

I would say you only have to see through the posts on here, and I don’t just mean the BS ones of which there are plenty, and see that most of the complaints and big issues aren’t really that big and more often than not are of the driver’s own making. Often it can be through a lack of knowledge of the regulations. When you know them they are very much weighted in the driver’s favour and can be used far more to your advantage to work the way you want to than that of the company and you don’t need a strike or a union for that.

Another prime reason for complaints is jealousy. I’ve never bothered about what another driver is getting for his run, what vehicle he is driving or the hours he is doing as long as I was happy with my lot and again no strike or union needed.

Office staff is another ‘major issue’. You just have to train them until they realise phoning up and asking where you are or what time you will be there is a waste of their time and effort for example. That’s usually easily accomplished over time and doesn’t need a picket line to do. It’s not perfect that one because sometimes they haven’t been there long enough to train and then you end up trying to get across the office to ‘have words’ and them and it all going pear shaped but that’s life.

Blimey so there’s no issues in the road transport industry of too many drivers chasing too few jobs because the economy in general has been zb’d up by wage restraint together with massive price and tax increases resulting in not enough people having enough money to spend to keep the economy moving and money being paid out in fuel taxation which should be going back into the industry.

Meh, that’s all stuff that really doesn’t bother me and I don’t spend time worrying or thinking about. It’s not transport specific anyway, it’s across the board.