Hello,
Does anybody work for pertemps as a ltd company and doesn’t do their self billing procedure? I have pretty much been told that i have to give them control of my invoicing or i won’t get any work. I wouldn’t mind if they were the only people i dealt with but its not.
Cheers Matt
You need Conor or Pierre to answer this as they’re pretty switched on about this stuff. Imo (and I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong) Pertemps taking care of your invoicing is in reality a MSC and as such has recently been deemed illegal. As I said I may have misunderstood the changes, but if I haven’t then I’m surprised that they are still pushing this method and would be best avoided because of potential future liabilities.
no you don’t they are wrong if you are ltd company in your own right you invoice Pertemps and they pay from that (that’s what about 15 of my lads do). most seem to use some online invoice generator (primus accounting?). others have their own headed paper and send it on this.
which branch is this as it sounds like they are unsure on how it works?
.
matthabens:
Hello,Does anybody work for pertemps as a ltd company and doesn’t do their self billing procedure? I have pretty much been told that i have to give them control of my invoicing or i won’t get any work. I wouldn’t mind if they were the only people i dealt with but its not.
Cheers Matt
Read the posts on Think Accounting and then you decide
Pertemps as far as I am aware do not have a ‘scheme’ such as others do. (driverhire ltd, milestones version etc.).
for exactly the think accounting situation.
War is correct about the billing generator, I’ve come across several agencies who use them (milestone, blue arrow, Pertemps and more). They’re far from accurate, and only as good as the data that the agy input. Always generate your own and cross check them for errors. A few (Milestones DX??) even allow you to go online to check the info prior to the self billing invoice :rolleyes is generated. So don’t accept what it states, and don’t be palmed off with being told “you must use our invoice” rubbish. They AFAIK not the same as an MSC such as think
The Managed Service Company Legislation being enforced by HMRC also includes Agencies on their Radar. The joint and several collection of tax owed can not only be collected from the driver’s Ltd company but also from the Director, ie the Driver, from an intermediary such as the “Scheme” provider and as a last resort from the Agency. This legislation has been around since 2007 and is now being actively enforced.
Large tax bills are now landing on peoples doormats from HMRC, they are looking into all the “schemes” involved and are going through the courts with test cases. No two test cases are the same and they are looking into retrieving as much money as they can.
Personally I wouldn’t touch anything that involved using a “scheme” by the Agencies and I would certainly invoice myself in the normal way. After all your company is a separate entity and should not be interfered with by anyone else…Beware of MSC Legislation!
Thanks for the replies, i have had so many doubts about this especially as they want me to sign an agreement (which is an hmrc template, so recognised) on the agreement it states that i am not allowed to raise an invoice in duplication (i was just going to let them do to humour them and then still raise my own invoices as usual).
This is from the southampton branch. I’ve told them twice before i’m not interested in this way of working and the most recent email received says this is how the company wish to deal with self employed people from now.
Just annoyed that i’m being backed into a corner over this.
Robbo I Suspect you have missed the point of this thread.
It isn’t about MSC’s and a 3rd party doing the bookkeeping for a fee, is about “self billing” which is more similar to parallel invoicing, where the agency uses software to generate and invoice for the payments both to the client and the driver. Especially as most drivers are rubbish at generating a valid invoice, (which is why lots of drivers paid 3rd party MSC’s to do it for them). The OP is submitting their own valid invoice to the agy but it’s making more work for the agy clerks, which is why they don’t like it. The OP is also responsible for all taxes due to HMRC etc. the value of the OP’s / Pertemps invoices (whichever is correct) will be paid gross £ into OP’s bank and he’ll sort the rest out.
Of the 100+ driver I knew working for milestone, (who use self billing) only 15 would submit their own invoice. This meant the woman dealing with those 15 had to pull them out of the pile and deal with them individually, to cross check the figures etc, creating more work for her
the only time I have discrepancies with my drivers is due to some of the rolling up/down to the nearest 15 mins. all we do is speak to them explain and they resubmit if required/agreed, if they don’t we have a discussion and sort it out one way or another.
peirre:
Especially as most drivers are rubbish at generating a valid invoice
Sorry but this is absolute utter crap. For the type of work being done it is incredibly easy to raise an invoice. You’re just trying to justify agency payment delay tactics.
Rather than justifying delay tactics, I was trying to point out that beyond Facebook, eBay, message boards etc many people aren’t very computer literate. Even if they’re given a basic template
Very true peirre, and robbo you are correct in that every business is a seperate entity and does not want to be interfered with by anyone else, this is the reason i have declined it twice!
Had another chat with the company and it seems i am not being forced over, they would just prefer it if contractors used the self billing method. So partly my fault for jumping the gun but at least i am aware of the selfbilling scheme now and to be wary and careful of it in the future.
peirre:
Rather than justifying delay tactics, I was trying to point out that beyond Facebook, eBay, message boards etc many people aren’t very computer literate. Even if they’re given a basic template
They don’t need to be. You can hand write an invoice on a scrap of paper and under the law its a valid invoice.
"From Joe Bloggs Driver to Rip-off agency
16/4/15
Class 2 driver 60hrs £600"
scribbled on a bit of paper is a valid invoice. It might not be in a format the agency is happy with but it is still valid and enforceable in court.
Conor:
peirre:
Rather than justifying delay tactics, I was trying to point out that beyond Facebook, eBay, message boards etc many people aren’t very computer literate. Even if they’re given a basic templateThey don’t need to be. You can hand write an invoice on a scrap of paper and under the law its a valid invoice.
"From Joe Bloggs Driver to Rip-off agency
16/4/15Class 2 driver 60hrs £600"
scribbled on a bit of paper is a valid invoice. It might not be in a format the agency is happy with but it is still valid and enforceable in court.
so the rip off agency have to accept a shoddy scrap of paper? an invoice should be a breakdown of services provided and charges / totals
love how the worlds greatest agency driver give advice like this to others and matt for me its not hard to provide an invoice printed off from a pc that portrays you as a professional not some amature
An invoice can be hand written, but then again the author would also need to pass/convey the invoice to the customer. This may also mean they may need to send it via regular means (letter, personnel visit etc). This may mean incurring extra costs for stamps/fuel/time. Where as a simple computer generated invoice can also be converted from a spreadsheet to any file form req’d inc Pdf that can be emailed from wherever they are. Likewise the driver could use a blank form book to write out the invoice leaving them the option of scanning the form or passing it by regular means
war1974:
Conor:
peirre:
Rather than justifying delay tactics, I was trying to point out that beyond Facebook, eBay, message boards etc many people aren’t very computer literate. Even if they’re given a basic templateThey don’t need to be. You can hand write an invoice on a scrap of paper and under the law its a valid invoice.
"From Joe Bloggs Driver to Rip-off agency
16/4/15Class 2 driver 60hrs £600"
scribbled on a bit of paper is a valid invoice. It might not be in a format the agency is happy with but it is still valid and enforceable in court.
so the rip off agency have to accept a shoddy scrap of paper? an invoice should be a breakdown of services provided and charges / totals
love how the worlds greatest agency driver give advice like this to others and matt for me its not hard to provide an invoice printed off from a pc that portrays you as a professional not some amature
but it’s still legal war! 
I think there are businesses like that in every industry though, some which want to run a tight ship and others who just want to get by. There are people who don’t know how to use a computer but then like was said, a handwritten invoice book, or, like our accountancy, pay someone to do it! I deal with a mates book keeping and invoicing etc as a freelancer for a small price being a part qual accountant and learning, shame I hadn’t covered self billing yet!!!
The original problem is all sorted now, as usual i jumped to the wrong conclusion over the wording of the email. I just wanted to do some research before i made a phone call about the email. I didn’t want to get involved without knowing the full ins and outs of the scheme, but it made some interesting reading all the same!