Hi ladies and gents. A newbie to the sites and after some good info. I’m a transport manager trying to look after my lads who’s owner has recently made changes effectively not paying drivers for breaks at all. Previously they deducted 45 minutes but now are deducting 1.5hrs for any driver exceeding a 13hr day, the reasoning being max 6hrs working (not more than 4.5hrs driving) followed by a 45min break + another 6hrs equals 12.45hrs. Obviously this has been detrimental to the morale of the troops in addition to the distinct lack of beer chits accrued on a Friday. My aim is to convince the owner it would be a great idea to introduce payment for second breaks basically, as I’ve some great professional drivers disheartened at the move by management to make cuts and I fear I may lose valuable members of my team because of it. The reward for going that extra mile is no longer there and a few have even considered nailing a plank to a trailer to support the mutinous mumblings. I have been told that being paid for breaks is not allowed but have been unable to find anything on Vosa or other websites to back this quote from a company director. I would really appreciate some advice from some guys or gals in the know.
Times must be getting hard .
Where i am at theminute we are paid for time spent at work from clocking in to clocking out and we get very regular visits from osa and this has never been brought up into any of the issues so i can not see any issue with it but am sure others will prove me wrong if there is such legistatiuon out there .
New manager has come in to save company money and first think to get it is the driver 
so when driver pulls out of for instance sat in tesco etc and spent 5hrs sat in waiting room then pulls outside yard and takes there 45mins and customer aint happy and neither will be the boss when everything takes much longer than it did before as drivers need to drag there heels to get there extra hour in each day .
If not sure regarding breaks why not give vosa a ring i tend to email them if i can as then i have it in my hand if go to court if there info is incorect .
There is no law one way or the other, you can pay or not, up to you, but if you’re changing an existing contract then you have to give notice to that effect 
Personally I think you need to speculate to accumulate, when I first started times were hard, so my wages were as little as I could get away with, but the old cliche of paying peanuts and getting monkeys is very true, so I learned from that and started paying a little more than everyone else in my line of work and ended up with a decent bunch of drivers who were worth every penny. If your drivers are worth holding on to I’d be putting my hand in my pocket if I were you
I posted this on another thread - it might be food for thought here too though:
Zetorpilot:
Actually, I think the whole business of deducting wages for breaks is a highly questionable, morally at the very least. If I’m not being paid, I’d like to be off somewhere taking photographs, sailing, or canoeing - in other words something totally unrelated to work. NOT, for example, being sat at Vémars unable to use the bogs as fifteen coachloads of schoolkids are queueing there already (other equally disgusting service areas are available), watching the clock tick round for 45 minutes because that’s what the law says I must do then…Just to be clear, sitting there looking at the clock for 45 minutes after a maximum of 4.5h accumulated driving is, in my opinion, as much part of the job as obeying all the other pieces of legislation
Zetorpilot:
I posted this on another thread - it might be food for thought here too though:Zetorpilot:
Actually, I think the whole business of deducting wages for breaks is a highly questionable, morally at the very least. If I’m not being paid, I’d like to be off somewhere taking photographs, sailing, or canoeing - in other words something totally unrelated to work. NOT, for example, being sat at Vémars unable to use the bogs as fifteen coachloads of schoolkids are queueing there already (other equally disgusting service areas are available), watching the clock tick round for 45 minutes because that’s what the law says I must do then…Just to be clear, sitting there looking at the clock for 45 minutes after a maximum of 4.5h accumulated driving is, in my opinion, as much part of the job as obeying all the other pieces of legislation
I quite agree, but i would like to add what about nights out? by that i mean what other profession would be happy sleeping in a tin box in either an msa,lay-bye,ind estate for a little over £20 per night?
and before anyone mentions being able to freely dispose of your time your options are a bit limited if your en route from a to b and run out of time/spread over, also with the cost of fuel and low margins it’s not like you can run miles out of your way to park where you want anyway
Blandinho:
Hi ladies and gents. A newbie to the sites and after some good info. I’m a transport manager trying to look after my lads who’s owner has recently made changes effectively not paying drivers for breaks at all. Previously they deducted 45 minutes but now are deducting 1.5hrs for any driver exceeding a 13hr day, the reasoning being max 6hrs working (not more than 4.5hrs driving) followed by a 45min break + another 6hrs equals 12.45hrs. Obviously this has been detrimental to the morale of the troops in addition to the distinct lack of beer chits accrued on a Friday. My aim is to convince the owner it would be a great idea to introduce payment for second breaks basically, as I’ve some great professional drivers disheartened at the move by management to make cuts and I fear I may lose valuable members of my team because of it. The reward for going that extra mile is no longer there and a few have even considered nailing a plank to a trailer to support the mutinous mumblings. I have been told that being paid for breaks is not allowed but have been unable to find anything on Vosa or other websites to back this quote from a company director. I would really appreciate some advice from some guys or gals in the know.
max hours min work plus people say the jobs fkd and ur boss is just adding to his future problems , and it’ll be a change of employment contract. the 1st 45 yeahi can understand but no driver has to work more than a 13hr day, drivers will park up and say “i’m tired boss” and there wont be much the boss can say … gun foot shot comes to mind
The Boss needs reminding that he had a presumably (reasonably) contented workforce of perhaps long serving, but most likely loyal and knowledgeable drivers. In one fail swoop he has put that entire situation and the profitability of his business in jeopardy. He may think that drivers are ten-a-penny in the current economic climate, but that is not the case with good drivers. It takes time for a driver to work the way the company wants, a period of longer term employees leaving, not only means that usually something is wrong within the company, but costs money in dealing with the constant changes. This is a recipe for all sorts of disruptions to planned schedules. If the vehicles don’t have cab 'phones and the drivers are using their own mobiles to ring in, then that will almost certainly stop, company mobiles will go on the blink - so the lorry that is expected back for 4pm, in time to load for tomorrow, will just not appear until the next morning etc. Vehicles will develop mysterious defects at the most inconvenient time. The drivers will find no end of ways to make everything a hassle. You will almost certainly soon acquire a dirty and unkempt fleet, since the drivers will ensure that the don’t have time to wash anything. The one thing that will really prove expensive will be when drivers stop working long enough to need that second break and allocated deliveries fall off the end of the ‘vehicle and driver available’ list. Does the O licence have sufficient margin to hire in vehicles and trailers? Can this even be done at the drop of a hat?
Perhaps the most pertinent question to ask is: why do unions impose a Work to Rule if it is not to bring home to management that things could be a lot worse than they are?
Well they’ll just leave if they’re up to much anyway.
Stoping the first break is fair enough but not the second. You’re really asking a favour getting them to do more than 13 hours anyway. There really is no incentive for your guys to do more than a 13 now. It’s not illegal to pay drivers their breaks, you can pay them whatever you like.
Blandinho:
Hi ladies and gents.A newbie to the sites and after some good info. I’m a transport manager trying to look after my lads who’s owner has recently made changes effectively not paying drivers for breaks at all.
Previously they deducted 45 minutes but now are deducting 1.5hrs for any driver exceeding a 13hr day, the reasoning being max 6hrs working (not more than 4.5hrs driving) followed by a 45min break + another 6hrs equals 12.45hrs. Obviously this has been detrimental to the morale of the troops in addition to the distinct lack of beer chits accrued on a Friday.
My aim is to convince the owner it would be a great idea to introduce payment for second breaks basically, as I’ve some great professional drivers disheartened at the move by management to make cuts and I fear I may lose valuable members of my team because of it.
The reward for going that extra mile is no longer there and a few have even considered nailing a plank to a trailer to support the mutinous mumblings. I have been told that being paid for breaks is not allowed but have been unable to find anything on Vosa or other websites to back this quote from a company director.
I would really appreciate some advice from some guys or gals in the know.
I could see the reason if it was a driving hours day over 9 hours but not for any other reason
Have senarios been presented which blow out the thinking of this ?
The easiest solution would be to do away with hourly pay.
Day rate, plus night out, plus meal allowance.
If they get done a bit handy, then they get more time off. if they get done handy on a friday, then it’s an early dart.
the firm will be more productive.
There will of course be the moaners that have strung the job out for so many years that they think they are hard done to when they’re still working, and all the rest are down the pub. But they’ll get used to it or leave.
It makes for much easier accounting too.
Blandinho:
Hi ladies and gents. A newbie to the sites and after some good info. I’m a transport manager trying to look after my lads who’s owner has recently made changes effectively not paying drivers for breaks at all. Previously they deducted 45 minutes but now are deducting 1.5hrs for any driver exceeding a 13hr day, the reasoning being max 6hrs working (not more than 4.5hrs driving) followed by a 45min break + another 6hrs equals 12.45hrs. Obviously this has been detrimental to the morale of the troops in addition to the distinct lack of beer chits accrued on a Friday. My aim is to convince the owner it would be a great idea to introduce payment for second breaks basically, as I’ve some great professional drivers disheartened at the move by management to make cuts and I fear I may lose valuable members of my team because of it. The reward for going that extra mile is no longer there and a few have even considered nailing a plank to a trailer to support the mutinous mumblings. I have been told that being paid for breaks is not allowed but have been unable to find anything on Vosa or other websites to back this quote from a company director. I would really appreciate some advice from some guys or gals in the know.
presumably, by the director that wants to save some money
he is talking ■■■■■■■■, and should be slapped with a big wet fish
WHAT SPANKY SAID !!!
Does the boss in question pay himself and his transport manager for every hour they are at work ? Of course he / she does 
So why are drivers any different , if you are at your place of work , why shouldn’t you be paid ?
Cheers guys for the feedback, quite overwhelmed so thanks. To answer a few and give a little more info, today a star driver informed me he’d had enough, the lack of pay on the second break being the last straw. Once brought to the gaffer’s attention he agreed to retract the restriction, hopefully it is enough to retain the aforementioned driver, as already mentioned good drivers are hard to replace. I will call vosa tomorrow to clarify (is it 141 before you dial to block number?) to get it from the horses mouth so to speak. Thanks again y’all!
Can’t believe gaffer was trying such a cheap skate con with good staff, and it took just one good bloke threatening to jack for a swift retraction which proves he was trying it on.
Damage is done, may take a while for some of the blokes to stop looking for other jobs, don’t be surprised if some other possibly more enlightened employer pilfers some of the better ones.
Why do you need to call VOSA?
It has got nothing to do with them, they are not interested
You would be better off calling ACAS for advice, but, if the boss insists on going through with it, he will have to give a notice period for changing the terms of the contract, and then the drivers will give their own notice period of telling the boss whewre to stick his job
Today’s Popmaster on Radio 2 ended with the lady boss having one ‘mention’ only, for: “my lovely staff who work very hard here at the Garden Centre… Thank you very much.”
That sounds like a happy ship.
I would say the worst aspect of the OP is that if a driver tries a bit harder, he or she is rewarded with a forty five minute deduction in pay.
I would love to know which motivational business school thought that one up?
As it happens, we have any breaks deducted from our wages but I feel that I get a fair hourly rate with overtime after eight hours so I don’t mind. Also, we are expected to have a break and not try and ■■■■■■ fifteen or thirty minutes in a queue or on a loading bay.
Anyhow, with careful use of the mode switch and an understanding of the rules I can still archive a fifteen hour day (if I’ve been held up) and still only take one forty five minute break…
W
I am glad I am on salary get the same each week whether its a long one or a short one 
limeyphil:
The easiest solution would be to do away with hourly pay.
Day rate, plus night out, plus meal allowance.
If they get done a bit handy, then they get more time off. if they get done handy on a friday, then it’s an early dart.
the firm will be more productive.
There will of course be the moaners that have strung the job out for so many years that they think they are hard done to when they’re still working, and all the rest are down the pub. But they’ll get used to it or leave.
It makes for much easier accounting too.
That would suit me, but in the end I would still do more than my work mates as they would just do even less work…in my head I want hourly pay with a tip/load bonus!
happysack:
limeyphil:
The easiest solution would be to do away with hourly pay.
Day rate, plus night out, plus meal allowance.
If they get done a bit handy, then they get more time off. if they get done handy on a friday, then it’s an early dart.
the firm will be more productive.
There will of course be the moaners that have strung the job out for so many years that they think they are hard done to when they’re still working, and all the rest are down the pub. But they’ll get used to it or leave.
It makes for much easier accounting too.That would suit me, but in the end I would still do more than my work mates as they would just do even less work…in my head I want hourly pay with a tip/load bonus!
It doesn’t work like that, work just gets strung out till Thursday to maximise night out money then it’s go, go, go for the early dart on Friday.
No wonder lorry drivers get stressed. I’ll stick with being paid what I’m due. Considering, I’ve got my feet up in Starbucks writing this I’m not bothered about being off pay for my break.
W