toonsy:
Speaking of pay rises… how is everyone getting on with their own? Are we seeing inflation beating ones anywhere? Anywhere just saying no?
Trouble is mate that inflation js forecasted to drop back down 2024 onwards. Businesses are loath to award inflation busting pay rises for a short term blip
I get that, but it doesn’t work like that. It works as pay rises now should at least try to reflect now, pay rises in 2024 should reflect circumstances in 2024.
If inflation drops back to say 3% in 2024 for arguments sake will many firms go “we will give you 8% because we didn’t match inflation then because it was too costly so everyone deserves a bit of a boost” of course they won’t.
I’ve got 13% this year but I’m not daft enough or unreasonable enough to not know that not every firm can afford that, but I’m also long in this game enough to know that many many firms will blag the pauper card to the absolute last.
Yes I agree with you, but I’m telling you what business are saying.
Even my lot who are well known for being generous in our pay awards are refusing above inflation pay increase
toonsy:
Speaking of pay rises… how is everyone getting on with their own? Are we seeing inflation beating ones anywhere? Anywhere just saying no?
Trouble is mate that inflation js forecasted to drop back down 2024 onwards. Businesses are loath to award inflation busting pay rises for a short term blip
Good point.
Anyone having had a nice rise recently may have it swallowed up by this current inflation, so they will relatively be back where they were this time last year.
Since one of our Brexit obsessives has brought up the subject of Brexit, and several other frequent Brexit posters* are also talking about it here…
Measuring Brexit benefits or losses or gains should be done looking at what have happened had the other course been taken.
Let`s draw a parallel with cars and fuels.
If my Ford does 30mpg on A fuel, and 20mpg on B fuel, we can see that A is better for me.
If Fred`s Vauxhall does 35mpg on A today, but does 15mpg tomorrow on the same fuel, why is that?
Could it be that the brakes are dragging on his Vauxhall?
If we went back to A fuel we should still be 10mpg better off shouldn`t we?
If Freda`s heavy old 4x4 does 20mpg on fuel A today, maybe that would only do 10mpg on fuel B.
Putting a ton in the back would drop her mpg to 7 on A, but only 5mpg on B.
Fuel A is better than fuel B.
Different circumstances give better or worse mpg for different vehicles, but A is better.
*Mostly they seem to want to close down discussion on said subject, telling us to get over it etc, but as soon as they think they see a glimmer of light demanding instant responses to their own posts on the subject.
Franglais:
It is also my opinion, that the current situation has not been caused by
The UK remaining in the EU
The EU now has 27 nations. As of June, the last month where there’s data in for everyone, the EU-27 average rate of inflation is 0.2% higher than the UK. 17 of those 27 EU nations have rates of inflation above that of the UK. 15 of those 17 nations have double digit rates of inflation. The worst rate of inflation is Lithuania at 20.5%.
But the UK’s rate is caused by Brexit…
I have already provided documented evidence to this in the Brexit thread. As usual Frangers swerved it by asking if the UK is doing better than Iraq’s inflation “are we doing better”■■?
More swerves than a night on the dodgems!
Comparing the UK economy with Lithuania, Greece or Iraq, is pointless.
Compare the UK economy post Brexit with where it would have been had we not left.
It should get interesting if the remain voting apparently now pro - brexit liz truss becomes p.m , after apparently writing with a few others , we should not blame our woes on the eu / immigrants , though she has said the rishi supporting Dominic rabb wrote that paragraph
I’d be worried if I voted for brexit as a leopard does change its spots !!
Carryfast:
Inflation caused by high energy prices caused by the high demand for oil and gas because no one wants to use expensive dangerous nuclear including France and our quisling government is enthusiastically exporting our resources while charging us as much or more for them in that tegard.Wile adding ‘carbon’ tax insult to injury because the EU ( that we supposedly left ) says we mustn’t use them.
That inflation.
Would you rather trust your media
or the 1976 economics nobel receiver?
Just to validate his point there is this explanation from the horse’s mouth on how the Bank of England and the treasury, attending to your demands of an ever growing government spending, brought the genie (inflation) out of the bottle. Now, forget their mambo jambo and jargons and head straight to the graph showing how much money has been printed yearly, since 2009.
Carryfast:
Inflation caused by high energy prices caused by the high demand for oil and gas because no one wants to use expensive dangerous nuclear including France and our quisling government is enthusiastically exporting our resources while charging us as much or more for them in that tegard.Wile adding ‘carbon’ tax insult to injury because the EU ( that we supposedly left ) says we mustn’t use them.
That inflation.
Would you rather trust your media
or the 1976 economics nobel receiver?
Just to validate his point there is this explanation from the horse’s mouth on how the Bank of England and the treasury, attending to your demands of an ever growing government spending, brought the genie (inflation) out of the bottle. Now, forget their mambo jambo and jargons and head straight to the graph showing how much money has been printed yearly, since 2009.
But hey, let’s re-nationalize the energy sector and subsidise everyone’s leccy and gaz bills with even more printing!
Change of heart?
osark:
Reading the people writing here that they, or someone they know are involved in the project, one would think this is putting a lot of food on british tables.
Perhaps one of the most (in)famous and influential economists after Adam Smith, would have a word about the role of the government in times of economic downturn. “The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up.” - John Maynard Keynes
Carryfast:
Inflation caused by high energy prices caused by the high demand for oil and gas because no one wants to use expensive dangerous nuclear including France and our quisling government is enthusiastically exporting our resources while charging us as much or more for them in that tegard.Wile adding ‘carbon’ tax insult to injury because the EU ( that we supposedly left ) says we mustn’t use them.
That inflation.
Would you rather trust your media
or the 1976 economics nobel receiver?
Just to validate his point there is this explanation from the horse’s mouth on how the Bank of England and the treasury, attending to your demands of an ever growing government spending, brought the genie (inflation) out of the bottle. Now, forget their mambo jambo and jargons and head straight to the graph showing how much money has been printed yearly, since 2009.
But hey, let’s re-nationalize the energy sector and subsidise everyone’s leccy and gaz bills with even more printing!
Change of heart?
osark:
Reading the people writing here that they, or someone they know are involved in the project, one would think this is putting a lot of food on british tables.
Perhaps one of the most (in)famous and influential economists after Adam Smith, would have a word about the role of the government in times of economic downturn. “The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up.” - John Maynard Keynes
Keynes vs Firedman is a battle so well known that it became part of British culture in the 80s
Its subtle but nonetheless it came up on national tv drama…
By the way, I am a schizophrenic!
Well, Economics is a Social Science, so being subject to the vagaries of the human condition, us nutters are as well placed as any to comment.
As one of them wrote so eloquently simple…
‘There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.’
Thomas Sowell
I recommend Dan Ariely and “Predictably Irrational”: Psychology and Behavioural Economics.
Or for those with a few minutes a TED Talk here: ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_ar … anguage=en
I recommend Dan Ariely and “Predictably Irrational”: Psychology and Behavioural Economics.
Or for those with a few minutes a TED Talk here: ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_ar … anguage=en
[/quote]
Very good , thank you for posting. The TED talks are very interesting with many varied subject’s.
Classical economists assume that we are rational beings who make the best decisions for ourselves. Ref the “invisible hand”.
We dont always know what is best for us, and dont act that way even when we do know.
Having taken any decision, confirmation bias kicks in.
Add in a widespread belief (covert even if not out in the open) in the supernatural…
Think of those who profess not to believe in any Gods, but stilll talk about “Karma”
Then those who, in the same vein, justify their own wealth as being somehow their “due”.
I worked hard therefore I deserve this wealth.
(I trained hard for years, so I deserve this gold medal. The silver medalist, wasnt eating pizza and smoking 20 a day! Many people work hard and risk capital and health, not everyone wins a lot. #Tory philosophy of self help is flawed) Ill shut up for a bit now.
Franglais:
It is also my opinion, that the current situation has not been caused by
The UK remaining in the EU
The EU now has 27 nations. As of June, the last month where there’s data in for everyone, the EU-27 average rate of inflation is 0.2% higher than the UK. 17 of those 27 EU nations have rates of inflation above that of the UK. 15 of those 17 nations have double digit rates of inflation. The worst rate of inflation is Lithuania at 20.5%.
But the UK’s rate is caused by Brexit…
I have already provided documented evidence to this in the Brexit thread. As usual Frangers swerved it by asking if the UK is doing better than Iraq’s inflation “are we doing better”■■?
More swerves than a night on the dodgems!
Comparing the UK economy with Lithuania, Greece or Iraq, is pointless.
Compare the UK economy post Brexit with where it would have been had we not left.
Compare the UK economy of 1972 with every year since and where it would have been if Powell had defeated Heath and Shore had led Labour instead of Callaghan.
As for BREXIT it’s obviously BRINO not BREXIT so more of our cash, fish and oil and gas for the EU as usual and more austerity at home to pay for it.
Franglais:
Comparing the UK economy with Lithuania, Greece or Iraq, is pointless.
Compare the UK economy post Brexit with where it would have been had we not left.
But that’s not possible to do with any degree of accuracy as can be witnessed by over half a decade of constant revising up of forecasts of growth when the UK economy continued to exceed previous forecasts. It’s definitely not possible to do at all now following the pandemic and some economists are saying we’ll not know for at least 20-30 years if we’re worse off or not and even then because of Covid there’s no certainty. When it comes to the economy the economists are only good at one thing, telling you tomorrow why what they predicted for today didn’t happen.
In the short term it’s not surprising that there’s likely to be some impact because everyone has to get used to dealing with the new status quo but once that happens and everyone becomes comfortable with how everything works it goes back to normal. One thing to point out though is the media’s ■■■■■■■■ mis-reporting. For example they were pointing out about the Q1 2020 GDP as proof Brexit was going to wreck the economy but they conveniently left out the fact it was lower than normal due to businesses stockpiling in 2019 because of uncertainty of what would happen so growth in 2019 was above where it should have been. Q1 2020 ended up being lower because companies had already bought more than enough of the supplies they needed so used those.
And continuing about the ■■■■■■■■ media misreporting there’s going to be a lot of the “I’ll have to choose between heating and eating” smoothbrain brigade banging on about £5000 energy bills for their 2 bed terrace looking like idiots over energy prices. OFGEM haven’t released any forecasts of the October price rise. All that has happened is one company has done their own analysis and come up with a best guess. What has then happened is that’s been applied to energy usage for January which is the month you use the most and the media, because it’s more interested in peddling fear ■■■■ than actual factual news, have taken that single month and multiplied it by 12 to come up with their clickbait £5000 a year figure.
The media needs to be brought to task for how much their clickbait fear ■■■■ peddling has damaged the mental health of people in this country.
Conor:
And continuing about the [zb] media misreporting there’s going to be a lot of the “I’ll have to choose between heating and eating” smoothbrain brigade banging on about £5000 energy bills for their 2 bed terrace looking like idiots over energy prices. OFGEM haven’t released any forecasts of the October price rise. All that has happened is one company has done their own analysis and come up with a best guess. What has then happened is that’s been applied to energy usage for January which is the month you use the most and the media, because it’s more interested in peddling fear ■■■■ than actual factual news, have taken that single month and multiplied it by 12 to come up with their clickbait £5000 a year figure.
The media needs to be brought to task for how much their clickbait fear ■■■■ peddling has damaged the mental health of people in this country.
Have you checked the unit prices being offered for your next energy bill tariff yet?
Conor:
And continuing about the [zb] media misreporting there’s going to be a lot of the “I’ll have to choose between heating and eating” smoothbrain brigade banging on about £5000 energy bills for their 2 bed terrace looking like idiots over energy prices. OFGEM haven’t released any forecasts of the October price rise. All that has happened is one company has done their own analysis and come up with a best guess. What has then happened is that’s been applied to energy usage for January which is the month you use the most and the media, because it’s more interested in peddling fear ■■■■ than actual factual news, have taken that single month and multiplied it by 12 to come up with their clickbait £5000 a year figure.
The media needs to be brought to task for how much their clickbait fear ■■■■ peddling has damaged the mental health of people in this country.
Have you checked the unit prices being offered for your next energy bill tariff yet?
I have. Currently…
Electric = 15.91p per kwh with standing charge of 21.8p per day.
Gas = 2.731p per kwh with standing charge of 24.83p per day.
I’m fixed until January but current cap is…
Electric = 28p per kwh with standing charge of 45p per day.
Gas = 7p per kwh with standing charge of 27p per day.
So yeah my gas would treble, my electricity would pretty much double, that’s BEFORE October.
Franglais:
Comparing the UK economy with Lithuania, Greece or Iraq, is pointless.
Compare the UK economy post Brexit with where it would have been had we not left.
But that’s not possible to do with any degree of accuracy as can be witnessed by over half a decade of constant revising up of forecasts of growth when the UK economy continued to exceed previous forecasts. It’s definitely not possible to do at all now following the pandemic and some economists are saying we’ll not know for at least 20-30 years if we’re worse off or not and even then because of Covid there’s no certainty. When it comes to the economy the economists are only good at one thing, telling you tomorrow why what they predicted for today didn’t happen.
In the short term it’s not surprising that there’s likely to be some impact because everyone has to get used to dealing with the new status quo but once that happens and everyone becomes comfortable with how everything works it goes back to normal. One thing to point out though is the media’s [zb] mis-reporting. For example they were pointing out about the Q1 2020 GDP as proof Brexit was going to wreck the economy but they conveniently left out the fact it was lower than normal due to businesses stockpiling in 2019 because of uncertainty of what would happen so growth in 2019 was above where it should have been. Q1 2020 ended up being lower because companies had already bought more than enough of the supplies they needed so used those.
And continuing about the [zb] media misreporting there’s going to be a lot of the “I’ll have to choose between heating and eating” smoothbrain brigade banging on about £5000 energy bills for their 2 bed terrace looking like idiots over energy prices. OFGEM haven’t released any forecasts of the October price rise. All that has happened is one company has done their own analysis and come up with a best guess. What has then happened is that’s been applied to energy usage for January which is the month you use the most and the media, because it’s more interested in peddling fear ■■■■ than actual factual news, have taken that single month and multiplied it by 12 to come up with their clickbait £5000 a year figure.
The media needs to be brought to task for how much their clickbait fear ■■■■ peddling has damaged the mental health of people in this country.
Have the forecasts over the past five years all been revised upwards? No.
“Some economists”? Yep, a few tame ones beloved of the ERG.
Is the Energy sector in trouble? Yes.
OFGEM might not be forecasting into the future, but haven`t you cited moneysavingexpert in the past?
What is Martin Lewis saying about energy?
Is a lot of the UK press guilty of misrepresenting the facts? Yes.
They have been for years…
