PAY CUT

[robroy]

Carryfast:

robroy:

Carryfast:
Council house tenants are only scroungers in the sense that the object of going to work ( should be ) to earn enough to comfortably afford a deposit and mortgage,on a decent privately bought house in a a decent setting,which can be cleared in a reasonable time.

As usual Carryfast whilst you are in full flow you slip in a generalisation which is your own personal opinion, implying that it is the norm,but in reality is total ■■■■■■■■.
Not everybody wants to own their own house, many are quite happy to rent as either a lifestyle choice, or as a reaction to circumstances past or present as in my case.
As I said before previous generations of working people rented council houses for their entire lives, and were not scroungers.

Firstly the economics of renting make no sense.Being that having to still pay the going market rental rates in retirement can be a deal breaker as to wether someone can continue to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle or be forced out into somewhere they don’t want to be.Whereas getting a mortgage out of the way and paid for means that housing costs are no longer an issue in later life.It can also make the difference between hauling the next generations out of housing costs/rental dependency in the form of leaving them a paid for inheritance especially in the case of only children.Or at least somewhere financially secure to live if their own circumstances don’t go to plan for whatever reason.

As for council house tenants or housing benefit claimants the fact is if rental is supposedly a life style choice then don’t expect home buyers to subsidise them.Especially in the hypocritical case of those taking advantage of such funding then calling home buyers ‘militant’,when they decide to fight for better wages to facilitate the buying of a decent house and supporting themselves.As applied in the case of a large part of Thatcher’s vote.In that case that made/makes them not only scroungers,but the worst type of hypocrite socialist when it suits them and capitalist when it doesn’t,too.IE the fact is rental,or at least state subsidised low wage rental or in work benefits,aren’t compatible with the idea of a modern advanced Capitalist economy.As opposed to mix and match of Socialism and Capitalism which we’ve got and which is all about subsidising low wage employment.

Carryfast, believe it or not mate I can kinda work out for myself the benefits of homeowner over paying rent, as I said, I had a mortgage myself until I hit a hard time, which incidentally I had no control over, so there is no need to drip feed me the points in your usual patronising way.

I take note that you have repeated your superior opinion of me being a scrounger, so by the same token my Dad who lived in a Council house, who worked hard all his life and payed his way also must have been a scrounger in your narrow minded opinion.
I am resisting the temptation to say what I really think of you and your opinions on this as I don’t normally lower myself to personal verbal attacks, but put your brain into gear mate before you talk the kind of ■■■■ ln here that offends people, mainly me!

[carryfast]

robroy:
I know it sounds a bit daft I know, so bear wjth me, but how many working people could buy a house if there was no mortgage facilities.
If there was no mortgages building societies or estate agents the price of a house would be the TRUE value not some ridiculous over inflated artificially valued price that it is now.
In terms of price of brick by brick, timber, plumbing land and labour for say a modest 3 bed family house how much is the bottom line. I’m out of my depth here so I am more than likely way off but does 30k sound about right? I don’t know, but nowhere near the thick end of 200+ k or whatever they are in your respective areas.
My daughter works part time as she has a baby, her husband is a full time hgv driver but they can not raise the high deposit and are renting privately for the same amount as they would pay a montly mortgage.

House prices have always reflected the idea of the free market which is fair enough.

The difference since Callaghan and Thatcher is that we don’t have the industry to create the demand for labour nor the strong unions which we had in the 1960’s/70’s of my parents’ generation.The result being a full on incomes crisis not a shortage of housing.

Added to that we’ve got the perfect storm of high immigration adding to the demand for housing and to the supply of labour.Together with the idea of the ‘housing ladder’ in which later generations thought a house gave them the licence to print money in the form of upgrading their zb ‘affordable’ first time buy or even subsidised council buy hovel for something much better at the new buyer’s ( mug’s ) expense.

I’m saying all that as someone who was myself priced out of the housing market here where I grew up in Surrey not because they haven’t covered the place in more than enough houses or because I wanted the state to support me.But because I was forced from a well paid job in industry to a low paid one in the public sector as part of Callaghan’s and Thatcher’s low wage economy dream.Ironically then being saved from the homeless zb pile by the fact that I always to this day still had a reasonable home in the place which my parents could afford to and did buy.The reason being that their generation were prepared to fight for the wages needed to pay for it.Unfortunately unlike too many of my generation and those which followed.

[juddian]

In a way i’ve been lucky, i started buying my own place at age 20, at one time when interest rates were scandalous peaking at 15% i was working near enough 100 hour weeks at 3 jobs to keep things going (never claimed, well apart from the time i got made redundant twice within 3 months around 1981 and got the sum total of £14 out of the system), ended up divorced and near enough starting from scratch again later on, but i refused to lose the roof over me head.

Lucky for me i got a lucky break in my driving work and got onto well paid hard graft work, it’s a funny thing but once you get into the better work it seems to find you, or rather you find it finding the standard wage an insult, and it’s true that when one door closes another opens, i got a reputation for being reliable, trouble and damage free so got onto the better car carriers by recommendation, that really brought the money in and we bollocked the mortgage off in double quick time.

Been mortgage free now for around 6 or 7 years, thats not a boast by the way but i cannot stress enough just how liberating the day is that you pay it off, all of a sudden They don’t have you by the bollox any more.
Difficult to start buying now though with artificial pricing as will be the case in an overcrowded island, so i have every sympathy with those who for various reasons find themselves in rented accomodation as there is no light at the end of the tunnel when the place is paid for.

We all want different things from life, and our experiences as children have a huge influence on us, i was brought up with parents in private service with tied cottages our home, an unusual and very working class childhood though i wouldn’t change a thing and miss my good parents still every day of my life.

But that life did have an effect on me in that i was terrified of being without a home (this thread has seen some deep thought), hence the determination almost need to buy our home as quickly as possible so as to be totally secure (as much as anyone can be) from the whims of employers and landlords (or neighbours from hell) whether they be private or govt/local authority apparatchiks, the present Mrs J (a woman far too good for me) feels exactly the same way, her childhood was different, sad, tragic indeed and security is desperately important to her too.

This thread has shown envy snobbery and all manner of horrible traits aimed at those who find themselves struggling and whats amazing is that this is the working class (some of whom think they’re middle class) showing their contempt for other working class people just trying to muddle along as any of us would, if the bloody political class linked to this thread they’d know they have us, the working class, exactly where they want us, subjugated and at each others throats, they’ve won.

[olog_hai]

Juddian:
This house price/rent issue wouldn’t be quite the same catastrophe it is now if we weren’t importing people faster than we can house them, it would have levelled off a long time ago during one of the natural peaks and troughs…there should have been a curtailing of prices even a reasonable drop during the 08 to 13 period of the current recession (which isn’t over by any means, nor is the economy in any way stable), instead of which the bubble continued to grow as millions more arrived.

It’s now gone way past stupid in the south east and in areas those who have got out of certain London districts and other cities due to the influx over many years have re-assembled…you’ll see more of that flight syndrome yet, and remember well when it’s your turn to be affected that the vast majority of you willingly did as you were told and voted for it.

Those who think the unstoppable invasion won’t affect them in more rural areas had better not be too young, or they’ll live to see the results for themselves when their ‘‘doesn’t affect us up here’’ smirk is wiped from their faces, in all cases our own kids (not Lucifer Blair or his son Cameron nor any of the families of those who direct this regime) are going to be the ones to suffer, the vast majority will never see what this country was like in better days before overcrowding became it’s ruin and people prepared to put some work in could afford to buy a reasonable house and live a fairly peaceful life.

You have another chance, the final one you don’t deserve in the vast majority of cases, to throw a spanner in their project when you get to choose in the referendum…if you vote for freedom i suggest you use a pen to put your mark and if someone could kindly set the sat nav of the ballot box carriers and follow them to make sure they don’t go missing for several hours, especially in places like Thanet South for example (nothing to see here move along now), it would make it a bit more difficult for them to rig this one if the nation happens to find its nads and votes to rid us of this unending lunacy…they’ll still have the postal vote scam mind.

You are wasted as a lorry driver. You could have a regular column in the Daily Mail and earn much more for rehashing the same old crap every week, as you do on here.

[carryfast]

Juddian:
This thread has shown envy snobbery and all manner of horrible traits aimed at those who find themselves struggling and whats amazing is that this is the working class (some of whom think they’re middle class) showing their contempt for other working class people just trying to muddle along as any of us would, if the bloody political class linked to this thread they’d know they have us, the working class, exactly where they want us, subjugated and at each others throats, they’ve won.

The fact is there should be no one ‘struggling’ in a modern industrialised society.Yes the working class are to blame for their situation.In large part ironically because of the type of people who were given state help as part of the socialist solution to a wrong type of Capitalist problem and then voted for Thatcher as part of their state subsisided housing deal.While calling many home buyers trying to build a better Capitalist system the militant striking enemy within.

So forgive me if I don’t have much sympathy with those who are just asking for more of the same old mix of Socialist and corrupted Thatcherite version of a so called ‘Capitalist’ system to suit themselves.The fact is housing costs are simply too expensive and the only way you’ll fix that is the same way in which my Grandparents and parents did by fighting for more money to pay the bills.The sad irony in all that being the wasted years that Labour has spent being tied to the same old Socialist bs when it’s all about incomes and industry within a Fordist Capitalist system.

[roymondo]

war1974:
the trouble is mainly due to the fact we will allow people to buy 10-20-30 properties to rent out, private rents are artificially inflated.

also what chance does the average person on say 20k have of getting on the housing ladder at present? zero I would say even if renting in a subsidised house/flat.

My son was on a lot less than £20k a year (more like £16k), yet he was able to buy his own place (a small, 2-bed, new-build house) without any financial assistance from us by taking advantage of the “shared equity” scheme offered by local housing association. OK, he doesn’t go on expensive holidays abroad, hardly drinks and doesn’t smoke, Neither does he have kids - but he does drive around in a new (small) car.

Also I do not accept the assertion that private rents are “artificially inflated” due to landlords being “allowed” (why not FFS?? It’s their money!) to own more than one property.

[carryfast]

Roymondo:
My son was on a lot less than £20k a year (more like £16k), yet he was able to buy his own place (a small, 2-bed, new-build house) without any financial assistance from us by taking advantage of the “shared equity” scheme offered by local housing association. OK, he doesn’t go on expensive holidays abroad, hardly drinks and doesn’t smoke, Neither does he have kids - but he does drive around in a new (small) car.

Or in other words a decent house paid for out of a fair wage without state subsidy is too good for the working class in a supposedly modern advanced economy.While even the Chinese Commy style urbanisation still needs state help to pay for it. So much for so called ‘capitalism’.

All no doubt sold to the gullible under paid workforce on the basis of when they’ve had enough of living in the small place,let alone decide to have a family,the hope is to flog it to some mug for enough profit to cover the shared equity and a free upgrade at the new buyer’s expense.IE a foot on the ‘housing ladder’.

[topmixer11]

Roymondo:

war1974:
the trouble is mainly due to the fact we will allow people to buy 10-20-30 properties to rent out, private rents are artificially inflated.

also what chance does the average person on say 20k have of getting on the housing ladder at present? zero I would say even if renting in a subsidised house/flat.

My son was on a lot less than £20k a year (more like £16k), yet he was able to buy his own place (a small, 2-bed, new-build house) without any financial assistance from us by taking advantage of the “shared equity” scheme offered by local housing association. OK, he doesn’t go on expensive holidays abroad, hardly drinks and doesn’t smoke, Neither does he have kids - but he does drive around in a new (small) car.

Also I do not accept the assertion that private rents are “artificially inflated” due to landlords being “allowed” (why not FFS?? It’s their money!) to own more than one property.[/quote

ANY CHANCE of a loan

[robroy]

Juddian:
This thread has shown envy snobbery and all manner of horrible traits aimed at those who find themselves struggling and whats amazing is that this is the working class (some of whom think they’re middle class) showing their contempt for other working class people just trying to muddle along as any of us would, if the bloody political class linked to this thread they’d know they have us, the working class, exactly where they want us, subjugated and at each others throats, they’ve won.

Couldn’t agree more mate. I neither want nor need any sympathy for my past situation off anybody it is all a long time ago now and I have moved on, and quite happy how things turned out, have a nice house, pay rent every month, and work away. Any name calling snobbery and labeling? …Water off a duck’s back, couldn’t give a ■■■■.
However I do take offence at some jumped up ‘know it all about everything’ type, who seems to think he is better than some, but in reality is not, looking down his ■■■■■■ snout at me.

As for your point about the Politicians, they have achieved their agenda.
The working people have gone back to ‘knowing their place’ ( especially drivers, read some comments on this forum) they take any kind of unfair treatment with little or no resistance, no solidarity, and as you say bicker with each other instead of standing together.
I bet Maggie is looking down ( or up) at us ■■■■■■■ herself laughing.

[topmixer11]

i lost my house in 1991 i tried to keep it as i could of managed payments but as my x3 wageslip calculations on basic would not add up { due to missus going awol } working at post office i could of filled both spare rooms easy with willing rent payers BUT OH NO keys please therefore leaving me with 15 years of grief due to the indemnity insurance which is now ILLEGAL !!! SPENT 5 years going from room to room lodging in some right hovels .applied for council at time of house loss ,and 5 years later got the offer of my flat which im still residing in now , my wages over last 20 years have not been great ,until i saved and took all my licences ,only year and half ago did i get the offer of 30 grand job at wilkos ,i have tried to get a deposit together which im told needs to be 40 grand at least now , but im still labelled as a scrounger by most on here because im in social housing and do not agree with being charged more for my rent than my neighbour who is on 29999 !!! so thats what my new wage will be . GOVERMENT REALLY HAVE no BRAINS and as for rest of you who say im a scrounger I COULDNT GIVE A MONKEYS i could be out of work next week as could most of us then who pays my RENT !!! so go to work acheive get persecuted LOSE YOUR JOB get TREATED which one carries the biggest subsidy

[robroy]

topmixer11:
i lost my house in 1991 i tried to keep it as i could of managed payments but as my x3 wageslip calculations on basic would not add up { due to missus going awol } working at post office i could of filled both spare rooms easy with willing rent payers BUT OH NO keys please therefore leaving me with 15 years of grief due to the indemnity insurance which is now ILLEGAL !!! SPENT 5 years going from room to room lodging in some right hovels .applied for council at time of house loss ,and 5 years later got the offer of my flat which im still residing in now , my wages over last 20 years have not been great ,until i saved and took all my licences ,only year and half ago did i get the offer of 30 grand job at wilkos ,i have tried to get a deposit together which im told needs to be 40 grand at least now , but im still labelled as a scrounger by most on here because im in social housing and do not agree with being charged more for my rent than my neighbour who is on 29999 !!! so thats what my new wage will be . GOVERMENT REALLY HAVE no BRAINS and as for rest of you who say im a scrounger I COULDNT GIVE A MONKEYS i could be out of work next week as could most of us then who pays my RENT !!! so go to work acheive get persecuted LOSE YOUR JOB get TREATED which one carries the biggest subsidy

Not being funny mate and I’m the last guy to start making a judgement on you, but as I see it, if you were on your arse and you were getting some kind of financial help to tide you over until things got better…well fair play to you.
However how can you complain, if now you are on your feet with a good job, so the intended short term assistance has stopped… as you no longer NEED it. If you are requesting a pay cut to keep claiming this assistance in whatever form, that means one thing mate you are working the system. So really I aint surprised that you are getting a lot of flak.

I have got a bit of stick on this thread from a certain smart arse, but my situation is/was entirely different to yours, I have paid what is the full going rate for rent since I lived in my council home, and have had the same periodical rent increases as every other Council tenant in my area, and have paid it all out of my wages.
So based on that I would like to distance my case from yours just for the record.

[carryfast]

robroy:
I have got a bit of stick on this thread from a certain smart arse, but my situation is/was entirely different to yours, I have paid what is the full going rate for rent since I lived in my council home, and have had the same periodical rent increases as every other Council tenant in my area, and have paid it all out of my wages.

Great so ‘if’ you’re supposedly paying the ‘full private market going rate’ then there’s no need for social housing and we can do what I said knock the whole social ( socialist ) housing programme on the head and the state funded budget that is currently paying for it.Then there will be no arguments.

[james_the_cat]

Carryfast:
Then there will be no arguments.

Yes sir! Blimey. Who do you think you are the big man in the picture! Funny you like lecturing people on here and squashing anything they say, refusing to value anyone else’s opnion, yet you’re just a lorry driver the same as the rest of us. Can’t be that clever can you ?

What’s 2 + 2 - 3? Bet you can’t get that. I can’t, it’s really hard. Told you! Now pipe down lecture man and let other people speak

[carryfast]

James the cat:

Carryfast:
Then there will be no arguments.

Yes sir! Blimey. Who do you think you are the big man in the picture! Funny you like lecturing people on here and squashing anything they say, refusing to value anyone else’s opnion, yet you’re just a lorry driver the same as the rest of us. Can’t be that clever can you ?

What’s 2 + 2 - 3? Bet you can’t get that. I can’t, it’s really hard. Told you! Now pipe down lecture man and let other people speak

There’s nothing in my posts which stop anyone arguing their point.But no surprise that the zb Socialist cause in whatever form wants all arguments against it stopped.

[robroy]

Carryfast:

robroy:
I have got a bit of stick on this thread from a certain smart arse, but my situation is/was entirely different to yours, I have paid what is the full going rate for rent since I lived in my council home, and have had the same periodical rent increases as every other Council tenant in my area, and have paid it all out of my wages.

Great so ‘if’ you’re supposedly paying the ‘full private market going rate’ then there’s no need for social housing and we can do what I said knock the whole social ( socialist ) housing programme on the head and the state funded budget that is currently paying for it.Then there will be no arguments.

Carryfast mate, if you are trying to push my buttons, you are succeeding.
Is it just me? The words ‘private market’ were not used by me.
Have you forgotten already? I’m (in your eyes) the sponger who lives in a council house. I pay and have paid, the full going rate for that council house, of which I have no say or control as far as the amount goes.
It is lower than renting a house from a private landlord admittedly, but if for any reason the rent increased in line with the private sector, then I would continue to pay what they required.
If you have a problem with that, even though it has ■■■■ all to do with you anyway,…at the end of the day I couldn’t give a rat’s ■■■.

[eagerbeaver]

" I lost my house in 1991 "

Has it turned up yet?

[james_the_cat]

Carryfast:

James the cat:

Carryfast:
Then there will be no arguments.

Yes sir! Blimey. Who do you think you are the big man in the picture! Funny you like lecturing people on here and squashing anything they say, refusing to value anyone else’s opnion, yet you’re just a lorry driver the same as the rest of us. Can’t be that clever can you ?

What’s 2 + 2 - 3? Bet you can’t get that. I can’t, it’s really hard. Told you! Now pipe down lecture man and let other people speak

There’s nothing in my posts which stop anyone arguing their point.But no surprise that the zb Socialist cause in whatever form wants all arguments against it stopped.

I’m not a socialist and I wouldn’t mind if you stopped!

[carryfast]

James the cat:

Carryfast:
There’s nothing in my posts which stop anyone arguing their point.But no surprise that the zb Socialist cause in whatever form wants all arguments against it stopped.

I’m not a socialist

Great in which case I’ll await to see what arguments you intend to put on the topic against the idea of social housing provision.

[james_the_cat]

Carryfast:

James the cat:

Carryfast:
There’s nothing in my posts which stop anyone arguing their point.But no surprise that the zb Socialist cause in whatever form wants all arguments against it stopped.

I’m not a socialist

Great in which case I’ll await to see what arguments you intend to put on the topic against the idea of social housing provision.

I wouldn’t wait too long teacher. I don’t have to do your homework to justify that i’m not a socialist. I just wouldn’t mind if you stopped. Sorry!

And, it’s not because of any argument to do with your topical application of houses and the socialising of the houses. Do you accuse anyone who takes issue with your ways on trucknet, of being a socialist ? I might try that on the peelers.

[james_the_cat]

Conor:
Its not seen as scrounging to live in one, its seen as disgusting to have a good income, live in one with a low rent because its supposed to be for those in need, to then complain just because you’re now expected to pay the going rate because you’re on good money but rather than do that and provide more money to the council to help other people out, instead ask for a pay cut to get out of paying the extra.

Bloody hell. I think this is actually a fair and balanced comment. It’s even got considering the needs of those less fortunate in it. What’s happened to you Conor?! I agree with one of your posts. Fairly said.