Carryfast:
A selective comparison of N reg Scania 111 and R reg Volvo F89 v L reg A series and M reg Border is an apples v oranges one and doesn’t exactly fit the script.
Given the choice of Bedford TM, ERF NGC and SA 400 which could also have been added to the Foden.
Bearing in mind that the expert opinion is that there was supposedly no market for 250 hp + sleeper cabbed wagons on UK work in the day.Yeah right.
The fact is the Foden in that line up effectively contradicts the conclusion being more than a match for the Scania and the F89 even allowing for the plastic cab while the F89 wasn’t even listed for UK market sales.
I would imagine the choice was what was available that could do the test bearing in mind they were all getting on a bit !
If I’ve read it right they were using the A series and the Atki v 111 and F89 to make the case that Brit products were supposedly behind the continentals.
The ERF NGC, Bedford TM and SA 400 not to mention that Foden that they actually used all say otherwise.
windrush:
No Dean, that isn’t me ‘buggering about’ with that S50! I think that might be at a Foden dealership, possibly Scotland going by the ‘S’ fleet code and we had nothing technical like that for lining the two axles up. However we did have the old Dunlop optical alignment guages for setting the individual axles tracking to parallel first though, and then lined them up with a roll of electrical wire tied between the front and rear towing eyes. Something that had to be done regularly with off road work or whenever a spring was changed to keep tyre wear to a minimum, although the second axle tyres on eight leggers did wear faster than the others when cornering on the door handles!
Pete.
Makes a change for you not to be buggering about Pete !
Heres a clip from 1973.
Punchy Dan:
“windrush” I wonder who owns the Foden in that test now since Bill Thorpe passed away? I reckon young Dan will know. Also it mentions that ‘none of the British trucks had suspended cabs’ but the Foden would have dampers and springs fitted on the cab rear, even the S50 half cabs had that feature?
Pete.
Don’t know Pete but check out this beauty
You seem to be very busy Dan with the old Foden,money making machine !
Carryfast:
If I’ve read it right they were using the A series and the Atki v 111 and F89 to make the case that Brit products were supposedly behind the continentals.
The ERF NGC, Bedford TM and SA 400 not to mention that Foden that they actually used all say otherwise.
Most were behind the continentals !
windrush:
“stargazer148” Hi windrush the 1/2 cab is a Glasgow reg cheers Ray
Thought so Ray, it was probably at Foden’s Glasgow service centre then.
Pete.
Ray / Pete, posted an article and brochure on page 423 about the Foden half cab.
We had one eight wheeler Foden S80 at Ballidon, SRB 632M, fitted with the NORDE rear suspension and driven from new by the late John ‘Cotty’ Watson from Brassington. Every day he was in the garage to borrow two 3/4" AF spanners to retighten the bolts on the suspension, it wasn’t a big success and no more were ordered despite Norde being only just down the road. However the later Rydewell/Foden set up was brlliant and gave no problems at all, and all the Foden fleet had that system factory fitted as standard.
Those Motor Panels S40 cabs were ok, some of our half cabs were recabbed with them by North Riding Garages at Middleton St George who were in the Tilling group to give the truck another few years life. I collected a few from there. Ours had the usual rod throttle though being Gardner engined, the only ones we had with the hydraulic set up were the Foden dumpers in the quarry that were ■■■■■■■ powered.
Looks like it could be one of William Bros from Wales ■■
Regards John.
Thought that myself John, they were green I believe but I couldn’t remember which part of Wales they were from though? With only one air cleaner stack it will be either Rolls or ■■■■■■■ engined.
DEANB:
Anyone recognise the Scania ? Looking at the reg i imagine that was an early import ,not sure what year Scania first started
selling in the UK.
9
…
That’s a '68/69 “Mk1” LB110- single mirror arms, small badges. There were some LB110s imported to GB on the F plate, but these were LHD. The 110 had its GB launch just before the G plate came in, so the first RHD wagons had G plates. The one in your pic is one of those. It looks as if it has done some hard miles.
DEANB:
Vintage road test. “240Gardner” will no doubt be able to tell us more.
As Max Boyce used to say: "I… was there
It was quite a while ago now - they stopped overnight on Charnock and I had dinner with them there (the high life!) sand stayed at the motel, but didn’t participate in their actual test runs.
When I was talking to them about setting up this test, I recall being struck about how little they seemed to know about the practicalities: they were talking about borrowing trailers from, I think, CTR for their testing, and it seemed quite a mystery to them when I asked what kingpin position a rental trailer was likely to have. Bear in mind that this was 1999, and the 1.6m kingpin was pretty common by then. They seemed genuinely surprised when I told them that the Borderer and the A Series were never going to couple to one of those. Of course, the late Mr Kennett was an extremely knowledgeable commercial vehicle engineer, but I guess that this was after his time there.
DEANB:
Vintage road test. “240Gardner” will no doubt be able to tell us more.
As Max Boyce used to say: "I… was there
It was quite a while ago now - they stopped overnight on Charnock and I had dinner with them there (the high life!) sand stayed at the motel, but didn’t participate in their actual test runs.
When I was talking to them about setting up this test, I recall being struck about how little they seemed to know about the practicalities: they were talking about borrowing trailers from, I think, CTR for their testing, and it seemed quite a mystery to them when I asked what kingpin position a rental trailer was likely to have. Bear in mind that this was 1999, and the 1.6m kingpin was pretty common by then. They seemed genuinely surprised when I told them that the Borderer and the A Series were never going to couple to one of those. Of course, the late Mr Kennett was an extremely knowledgeable commercial vehicle engineer, but I guess that this was after his time there.
Hiya Chris,
From what I’ve read about this “test” it was just a demolition job on the Atkinson and the ERF, the Foden was an non entity !! I introduced both Volvo and Scania into the BTS in the mid '70’s but we never directly compared them, nor would we, as the Atky and the “A” Serious were yesterday’s news but they were still cost effective both in capital cost and operational cost compared to the Scandinavians. Fair comment they couldn’t compare to the "new "generation of imports so the road test was really irrelevant strictly speaking ! And as an aside which no doubt as a Big A fan you may recall that it was a proven fact that a Driver had a better chance of survival in the event of a bad smash in the Atkinson as on impact the cab just disintegrated around him and didn’t trap him ! Fortunately non of the Bewick Atkys was ever involved in such an accident ! Cheers Dennis.
marktaff:
Hi Dean…nice to see you posting again.
This Atkinson is Mid Wales registered EP…Later became a Swansea reg in the late 70s…been mentioned looks like ex Leggets colours.
The top of the sleeper on this Leggett’s Borderer looks slightly different!!! Hope I am safe to call it a Borderer as N reg!!!
yes, that’s a Borderer with a Jennings sleeper pod
marktaff:
Hi Dean…nice to see you posting again.
This Atkinson is Mid Wales registered EP…Later became a Swansea reg in the late 70s…been mentioned looks like ex Leggets colours.
I’ve seen this pale blue and yellow combination on a different Borderer - from memory, I think the name in the little yellow panel on the door says “C+R”
JAKEY:
Thanks Dean, that Guy would have been some wagon in its day .
Carryfast:
"DEANB"Vintage road test. “240Gardner” will no doubt be able to tell us more.
A selective comparison of N reg Scania 111 and R reg Volvo F89 v L reg A series and M reg Border is an apples v oranges one and doesn’t exactly fit the script.
Given the choice of Bedford TM, ERF NGC and SA 400 which could also have been added to the Foden.
Bearing in mind that the expert opinion is that there was supposedly no market for 250 hp + sleeper cabbed wagons on UK work in the day.Yeah right.
The fact is the Foden in that line up effectively contradicts the conclusion being more than a match for the Scania and the F89 even allowing for the plastic cab while the F89 wasn’t even listed for UK market sales.
I would imagine the choice was what was available that could do the test bearing in mind they were all getting on a bit !
I always thought it was a bit odd when roadtests in truck magazine often would have one with a much larger engine than the other
trucks.
Very much what people were prepared to lend, hence the heavy haulage Foden pitched against the 32T Atki and ERF! It would have been perhaps more interesting had either the Atki or ERF been fitted with a Fuller, as a comparison against the old David Brown 6-speed, or if they’d found a 240 Gardner to pitch against the ■■■■■■■ but, as you say, it was down to what they could find. It would be so much easier now, with wider internet usage and Facebook groups, etc., to find a greater selection.
Also, the target year was 1974, so that effectively precluded the 400 Series. A Marathon or Buffalo might have been interesting to see, but restored examples at that time were very rare.
