PAUL GEE's PHOTO COLLECTION (Part 1)

[casual_observer]

The Russell 4 wheel Albion on previous page , is it carrying bags of Tunnel Cement ?

The houses behind look new & unoccupied, or if they are then curtains appear in short supply

[boardo96]

Hi Dean, the ECC Quarries places that you asked about was Blackhill on Woodbury common near Exmouth where they loaded out sand and stone and they also took a lot into Rockbeare near Ottery st Mary where there was a concrete plant, bagging plant and asphalt plant, I worked out of both in the mid to late 90’s, sadly all of it apart from the asphalt plant has shut now. Cheers Nigel

[5thwheel]

windrush:
I remember that when I drove for Tilcon we did some work in Henry Venables yard at Doxey, Stafford, many years ago and I wonder if they are still trading?

Pete.

Yes indeed Pete,still going strong.

David

[robthedog]

7

“boardo96” One from your part of the world. W.F.Miners & Son DAF. Looks like the pic was taken in Southampton.

6

Yep defiantly Southampton just past town quay heading towards dock gate 4

1

Anyone recognise the livestock MAN truck ■■?

0
[/quote]

[deanb]

Mark R:
EH Nicholls are from Sittingbourne in Kent… They run an all Iveco fleet now.

Thanks for the details Mark R.

kingswinford kit:
“DEANB”

H.C.Miles & Sons Atkinson overtaking a Big J. Not sure if we have had a Miles motor on before,anyone know where they were based ■■?

Hi Dean ,H Miles were from Malvern ,but also had a depot at Ledbury they did a lot of steel and tinplate out of south Wales with a lot going to Metal Box Worcester ,i think they became part of the Nuttal group ,regards Keith

Talking about Metal Box Keith,our local one in Poole shut and they are building houses on it as we speak. Thanks for the info on
H.Miles good stuff chap.

pete smith:
Morning Dean,
Henry Venables is a very old timber supply company based in Stafford, looks like the pic is taken in Stafford town centre.
The Lynx tractor units would be for 24 ton train weight hence the Albion hub reduction axle and the Buffalo would be for 32 ton and would have the heavier Maudsley design? axle, both would have had the headless wonder engine fitted, Cheer’s Pete

Thanks for the history lesson Pete ! I cant remember seeing Lynx in artic form only as rigids.
Leyland offered so many different models back in the 70’s .

Chris Webb:
Morning Dean.
Barber Road Services were from Sheffield.

Thanks for the info Chris ! Are you all settled in your new home now chap ?

windrush:
I remember that when I drove for Tilcon we did some work in Henry Venables yard at Doxey, Stafford, many years ago and I wonder if they are still trading?

Pete.

Memories Pete ! How long did you drive for Tilcon for chap ?

Casual Observer:
The Russell 4 wheel Albion on previous page , is it carrying bags of Tunnel Cement ?

The houses behind look new & unoccupied, or if they are then curtains appear in short supply

I reckon you are bang on there “Casual Observer” I will pop something on over the weekend about Tunnel Cement !

boardo96:
Hi Dean, the ECC Quarries places that you asked about was Blackhill on Woodbury common near Exmouth where they loaded out sand and stone and they also took a lot into Rockbeare near Ottery st Mary where there was a concrete plant, bagging plant and asphalt plant, I worked out of both in the mid to late 90’s, sadly all of it apart from the asphalt plant has shut now. Cheers Nigel

Thanks for the info Nigel ,always liked ECC’s trucks. When i was a kid they had a quarry at Worth Matravers. Will pop something on about ECC
over the weekend chap ! There are a few articles about ECC on pages 272 and 371.

5thwheel:
"windrush"I remember that when I drove for Tilcon we did some work in Henry Venables yard at Doxey, Stafford, many years ago and I wonder if they are still trading?

Pete.

Yes indeed Pete,still going strong.

David

robthedog:
Yep defiantly Southampton just past town quay heading towards dock gate 4

Thanks for confirming Rob.

[windrush]

DeanB asked: Memories Pete ! How long did you drive for Tilcon for chap ?

Not long Dean, 1984 until they sold the tippers off around the early 90’s, but then we ran under the initials of the TM (STB Transport) as he bought the tipper fleet at Ballidon and Kevin quarries but still with the same trucks and doing the same job. So 1984 to november 1997, but I had eight years in their garage before that of course so only 22 years in total. Then a further five years at the quarry driving six wheelers for another haulier.

Pete.

[kenfig_bill]

DEANB:

Mark R:
EH Nicholls are from Sittingbourne in Kent… They run an all Iveco fleet now.

Thanks for the details Mark R.

kingswinford kit:
“DEANB”

H.C.Miles & Sons Atkinson overtaking a Big J. Not sure if we have had a Miles motor on before,anyone know where they were based ■■?

Hi Dean ,H Miles were from Malvern ,but also had a depot at Ledbury they did a lot of steel and tinplate out of south Wales with a lot going to Metal Box Worcester ,i think they became part of the Nuttal group ,regards Keith

Talking about Metal Box Keith,our local one in Poole shut and they are building houses on it as we speak. Thanks for the info on
H.Miles good stuff chap.

pete smith:
Morning Dean,
Henry Venables is a very old timber supply company based in Stafford, looks like the pic is taken in Stafford town centre.
The Lynx tractor units would be for 24 ton train weight hence the Albion hub reduction axle and the Buffalo would be for 32 ton and would have the heavier Maudsley design? axle, both would have had the headless wonder engine fitted, Cheer’s Pete

Thanks for the history lesson Pete ! I cant remember seeing Lynx in artic form only as rigids.
Leyland offered so many different models back in the 70’s .

Chris Webb:
Morning Dean.
Barber Road Services were from Sheffield.

Thanks for the info Chris ! Are you all settled in your new home now chap ?

windrush:
I remember that when I drove for Tilcon we did some work in Henry Venables yard at Doxey, Stafford, many years ago and I wonder if they are still trading?

Pete.

Memories Pete ! How long did you drive for Tilcon for chap ?

Casual Observer:
The Russell 4 wheel Albion on previous page , is it carrying bags of Tunnel Cement ?

The houses behind look new & unoccupied, or if they are then curtains appear in short supply

I reckon you are bang on there “Casual Observer” I will pop something on over the weekend about Tunnel Cement !

boardo96:
Hi Dean, the ECC Quarries places that you asked about was Blackhill on Woodbury common near Exmouth where they loaded out sand and stone and they also took a lot into Rockbeare near Ottery st Mary where there was a concrete plant, bagging plant and asphalt plant, I worked out of both in the mid to late 90’s, sadly all of it apart from the asphalt plant has shut now. Cheers Nigel

Thanks for the info Nigel ,always liked ECC’s trucks. When i was a kid they had a quarry at Worth Matravers. Will pop something on about ECC
over the weekend chap ! There are a few articles about ECC on pages 272 and 371.

5thwheel:
"windrush"I remember that when I drove for Tilcon we did some work in Henry Venables yard at Doxey, Stafford, many years ago and I wonder if they are still trading?

Pete.

Yes indeed Pete,still going strong.

David

robthedog:
Yep defiantly Southampton just past town quay heading towards dock gate 4

Thanks for confirming Rob.

Hello Dean ,…you mention above that the former Metal Box plant in Poole …the old man remembers that years ago it was formally known as Wallace Stamping ■■ …the likes of Entress and Morfa brought in loads of tin plate …with Entress having tipped would load up with tomatoes at Weymouth …whilst Morfa would load up with scrap from the Ford plant in Southampton…Dean from the both of us many thanks …lol.Geraint

[deanb]

windrush:
DeanB asked: Memories Pete ! How long did you drive for Tilcon for chap ?

Not long Dean, 1984 until they sold the tippers off around the early 90’s, but then we ran under the initials of the TM (STB Transport) as he bought the tipper fleet at Ballidon and Kevin quarries but still with the same trucks and doing the same job. So 1984 to november 1997, but I had eight years in their garage before that of course so only 22 years in total. Then a further five years at the quarry driving six wheelers for another haulier.

Pete.

You did along time then altogether Pete.

kenfig bill:
“DEANB”

Talking about Metal Box Keith,our local one in Poole shut and they are building houses on it as we speak. Thanks for the info on
H.Miles good stuff chap.

Hello Dean ,…you mention above that the former Metal Box plant in Poole …the old man remembers that years ago it was formally known as Wallace Stamping ■■ …the likes of Entress and Morfa brought in loads of tin plate …with Entress having tipped would load up with tomatoes at Weymouth …whilst Morfa would load up with scrap from the Ford plant in Southampton…Dean from the both of us many thanks …lol.Geraint

Never heard of Wallace Stamping ,bit before my time Geraint ! Thank dad for the info and here’s one for him.

Tom Hughes clipping.

[deanb]

Phil Horridge’s ERF NGC from Poole.

Upton Oil Foden from Poole.

Anyone recognise the AEC ■■?

Rotinoff.

New MAN at a show.

Dodge fire engine.

Dolphin Packaging Ford Transcon from Poole.

Elliotts MAN from Bournemouth.

Greenwoods DAF no doubt loaded with Zanussi appliances that he has collected off Poole docks.

Shell ERF tanker.

[240_gardner]

DEANB:
This clipping from 1965 states that this was possibly the first 32 ton artic running on 5 axles. Does anyone know what year the law
changed and you could run on 4 axles at 32 tons ?

The weight limit for artics went up from 24T to 32T in the 1964 Transport Act, and it was permissible on 4 axles. However, there were few tractor trailer combinations which could achieve this legally within the stipulated outer axle spread, even with the longest trailers. Coupled with the fact that there were thousands of older and shorter trailers still in use, together with operations such as ferry operators for whom shorter trailers were important, this created the market for the 6-wheeled tractor at 32T. A 6x4 tractor would, in most cases, be too heavy and unwieldy for the job, and so a number of lighter 32T 6x2 tractors came onto the market, such as the Scammell Trunker II, AEC Mammoth Minor and the Atkinson Rear Steer, together with smaller numbers of Chinese 6 tractors from Foden and ERF.

I’m struggling to remember exactly when it was that the outer axle requirement was eased (perhaps around 1970/1?) but, when it was, the 32T 6x2 tractors became obsolete overnight, especially since road tax was based on unladen weight, and many were cut down into 4x2 configuration

[240_gardner]

DEANB:
Anyone recognise the Atkinson Venturer from 1974 ■■?

Certainly!

This one is a 75 ton version, new to Clarington Coach & Haulage of Wigan. It spent some time as a recovery vehicle near Swindon, and here it is now:

Atkinson 1973 Venturer REK 552M by Bob Lovelock, on Flickr

[bewick]

240 Gardner:

DEANB:
This clipping from 1965 states that this was possibly the first 32 ton artic running on 5 axles. Does anyone know what year the law
changed and you could run on 4 axles at 32 tons ?

The weight limit for artics went up from 24T to 32T in the 1964 Transport Act, and it was permissible on 4 axles. However, there were few tractor trailer combinations which could achieve this legally within the stipulated outer axle spread, even with the longest trailers. Coupled with the fact that there were thousands of older and shorter trailers still in use, together with operations such as ferry operators for whom shorter trailers were important, this created the market for the 6-wheeled tractor at 32T. A 6x4 tractor would, in most cases, be too heavy and unwieldy for the job, and so a number of lighter 32T 6x2 tractors came onto the market, such as the Scammell Trunker II, AEC Mammoth Minor and the Atkinson Rear Steer, together with smaller numbers of Chinese 6 tractors from Foden and ERF.

I’m struggling to remember exactly when it was that the outer axle requirement was eased (perhaps around 1970/1?) but, when it was, the 32T 6x2 tractors became obsolete overnight, especially since road tax was based on unladen weight, and many were cut down into 4x2 configuration

Hi Chris, re. 32ton on 4 axles. I recall that my first Borderer and 40ft York SL in August '71 was only able to run at 30 ton GVW but from here on my brain cell is a bit hazy but the best I can say is it was during 1972 when the weights altered and I believe that the axle spacing on a tandem bogie increased the axle weights from 9:25 to 9:5 ( or was it 9ton to 9:25 ?) if my memory serves me correctly. I can recall a “weighbridge incidence” at Rickmansworth when one of our artics ,fully freighted, just scraped in on the new bogie weights otherwise we would have got done ! I had loaded this new York trailer for Bracknell with 20 ton of paper then the Mill said could I put another two ton on for Uxbridge ! I left a note on the Atky bonnet quipping that “I hoped those B-------- weren’t weighing at Ricky” !!! Doh! but phew !!! the new regs on this trailer saved us !! Cheers Dennis.

[deanb]

240 Gardner:

DEANB:
This clipping from 1965 states that this was possibly the first 32 ton artic running on 5 axles. Does anyone know what year the law
changed and you could run on 4 axles at 32 tons ?

The weight limit for artics went up from 24T to 32T in the 1964 Transport Act, and it was permissible on 4 axles. However, there were few tractor trailer combinations which could achieve this legally within the stipulated outer axle spread, even with the longest trailers. Coupled with the fact that there were thousands of older and shorter trailers still in use, together with operations such as ferry operators for whom shorter trailers were important, this created the market for the 6-wheeled tractor at 32T. A 6x4 tractor would, in most cases, be too heavy and unwieldy for the job, and so a number of lighter 32T 6x2 tractors came onto the market, such as the Scammell Trunker II, AEC Mammoth Minor and the Atkinson Rear Steer, together with smaller numbers of Chinese 6 tractors from Foden and ERF.

I’m struggling to remember exactly when it was that the outer axle requirement was eased (perhaps around 1970/1?) but, when it was, the 32T 6x2 tractors became obsolete overnight, especially since road tax was based on unladen weight, and many were cut down into 4x2 configuration

Thanks for the post Chris,very intresting and appreciate you posting it.

[deanb]

240 Gardner:
“DEANB”

Anyone recognise the Atkinson Venturer from 1974 ■■?

Certainly!

This one is a 75 ton version, new to Clarington Coach & Haulage of Wigan. It spent some time as a recovery vehicle near Swindon, and here it is now:

Thanks for the reply Chris,i should have had a look through the archives chap !

Click on pages twice.

[chris_webb]

240 Gardner:

DEANB:
This clipping from 1965 states that this was possibly the first 32 ton artic running on 5 axles. Does anyone know what year the law
changed and you could run on 4 axles at 32 tons ?

The weight limit for artics went up from 24T to 32T in the 1964 Transport Act, and it was permissible on 4 axles. However, there were few tractor trailer combinations which could achieve this legally within the stipulated outer axle spread, even with the longest trailers. Coupled with the fact that there were thousands of older and shorter trailers still in use, together with operations such as ferry operators for whom shorter trailers were important, this created the market for the 6-wheeled tractor at 32T. A 6x4 tractor would, in most cases, be too heavy and unwieldy for the job, and so a number of lighter 32T 6x2 tractors came onto the market, such as the Scammell Trunker II, AEC Mammoth Minor and the Atkinson Rear Steer, together with smaller numbers of Chinese 6 tractors from Foden and ERF.

I’m struggling to remember exactly when it was that the outer axle requirement was eased (perhaps around 1970/1?) but, when it was, the 32T 6x2 tractors became obsolete overnight, especially since road tax was based on unladen weight, and many were cut down into 4x2 configuration[/quote

Morning Chris.
A E Evans ran a “D” reg Mandator artic at 32t gross in 1969,I took it over when other driver left.To achieve the axle spread the tank had like a swan neck type design with axles right ont arse end.It was a pain to get in some places.I have no photo of it but the attached photo shows another one they ran with axles on back end,it was based in Barking depot and I was told it also ran at 32t gross although it doesn’t look like the spread is as great as on mine…they also cut down two MK5 8-leggers and ran them as 3 axled units for 32t on 5 axles in 1969.Photo shows one in Sheffield.

[deanb]

Bewick:

240 Gardner:

DEANB:
This clipping from 1965 states that this was possibly the first 32 ton artic running on 5 axles. Does anyone know what year the law
changed and you could run on 4 axles at 32 tons ?

The weight limit for artics went up from 24T to 32T in the 1964 Transport Act, and it was permissible on 4 axles. However, there were few tractor trailer combinations which could achieve this legally within the stipulated outer axle spread, even with the longest trailers. Coupled with the fact that there were thousands of older and shorter trailers still in use, together with operations such as ferry operators for whom shorter trailers were important, this created the market for the 6-wheeled tractor at 32T. A 6x4 tractor would, in most cases, be too heavy and unwieldy for the job, and so a number of lighter 32T 6x2 tractors came onto the market, such as the Scammell Trunker II, AEC Mammoth Minor and the Atkinson Rear Steer, together with smaller numbers of Chinese 6 tractors from Foden and ERF.

I’m struggling to remember exactly when it was that the outer axle requirement was eased (perhaps around 1970/1?) but, when it was, the 32T 6x2 tractors became obsolete overnight, especially since road tax was based on unladen weight, and many were cut down into 4x2 configuration

Hi Chris, re. 32ton on 4 axles. I recall that my first Borderer and 40ft York SL in August '71 was only able to run at 30 ton GVW but from here on my brain cell is a bit hazy but the best I can say is it was during 1972 when the weights altered and I believe that the axle spacing on a tandem bogie increased the axle weights from 9:25 to 9:5 ( or was it 9ton to 9:25 ?) if my memory serves me correctly. I can recall a “weighbridge incidence” at Rickmansworth when one of our artics ,fully freighted, just scraped in on the new bogie weights otherwise we would have got done ! I had loaded this new York trailer for Bracknell with 20 ton of paper then the Mill said could I put another two ton on for Uxbridge ! I left a note on the Atky bonnet quipping that “I hoped those B-------- weren’t weighing at Ricky” !!! Doh! but phew !!! the new regs on this trailer saved us !! Cheers Dennis.

Intresting comments Dennis, never thought about the tax implicaions until you menioned it.

Chris Webb:
Morning Chris.
A E Evans ran a “D” reg Mandator artic at 32t gross in 1969,I took it over when other driver left.To achieve the axle spread the tank had like a swan neck type design with axles right ont arse end.It was a pain to get in some places.I have no photo of it but the attached photo shows another one they ran with axles on back end,it was based in Barking depot and I was told it also ran at 32t gross although it doesn’t look like the spread is as great as on mine…they also cut down two MK5 8-leggers and ran them as 3 axled units for 32t on 5 axles in 1969.Photo shows one in Sheffield.

Thanks for the input Chris. Would the trailer you are talking about be somehing like the one in this advert ?

Click on twice.

[chris_webb]

Hi Dean.
No pal,nowt like that.Mine was far lower,6000 galls cap = 5x 1100 + a 500 second compt. I know APV built tanks,I went to their place in Crawley with steel,but that looks very high on 5th wheel.
Wish I’d got a photo of mine.There was a lot of strain on the Mandator chassis and fitters found it were cracked.With it being 7 years old it were scrapped,engine and box removed of course for other purposes.One driver refused to take it out on a certain job because of length with axles at back,I were on holiday. He reckoned it couldn’t gain access to Donald McPhersons,a paint place on Bury New Road Manchester.It was one of the first jobs I had with it -1500 galls for them and 3500 galls for Proctor and Gamble Trafford Park,I had no problem…drivers and screwdrivers…….

[deanb]

Chris Webb:
Hi Dean.
No pal,nowt like that.Mine was far lower,6000 galls cap = 5x 1100 + a 500 second compt. I know APV built tanks,I went to their place in Crawley with steel,but that looks very high on 5th wheel.
Wish I’d got a photo of mine.There was a lot of strain on the Mandator chassis and fitters found it were cracked.With it being 7 years old it were scrapped,engine and box removed of course for other purposes.One driver refused to take it out on a certain job because of length with axles at back,I were on holiday. He reckoned it couldn’t gain access to Donald McPhersons,a paint place on Bury New Road Manchester.It was one of the first jobs I had with it -1500 galls for them and 3500 galls for Proctor and Gamble Trafford Park,I had no problem…drivers and screwdrivers…….

Ok thanks Chris, i will have a look through the archives and see if i have a pic. Can you remember the manufacturer of the trailer ■■

[deanb]

Tanker Trailers.

[deanb]

Operating maximum size artic tankers 1969.

Click on pages twice to read.