PAUL GEE's PHOTO COLLECTION (Part 1)

[dieseldog66]

DEANB:

bob-lad:
hia dean great pics as usual the marathon looks like redpath dorman long and the erf bulker could be febrys a big firm at the time the freightline scanias used to backload of us at bowies with kraft oils cheers rob

Thanks Rob for the information.

albion1938:
Victaulic Foden. Unusual company name ■■
My late brother worked for Victaulic in the factory when he moved to Huntingdon on the new towns scheme in 1963. He hated the job as he was a driver but no driving jobs available so it it was a stopgap until he got back on the lorries. IIRC they manufactured big rubber grommets and pipe fittings, don’t know whether they had any other locations but that Foden is Cambridgeshire registered.
Bernard

Thanks for the comment Bernard !

Tranconfred:
The victaulic foden came from there hitchin dept would be delivering to drainage systems depts.

Cheers “Transconfred” for the input.

pete smith:
Hi Dean,
The Octopus bulker is Lionel T Phillips, you could see their yard off the M5 going south just before jcn 23 if I remember correctly,

pete smith:
Forgot to add this , the Guy 8 legger I’m sure it is one of John Hills from just off Jcn 10 M6 near Walsall, it has a Walsall registration also and Hills used to have greedy boards fitted to back load coke to one of the local foundries, they also ran ERF’s, Cheer’s Pete

Thanks Pete for the info on those trucks !

ERF-NGC-European:

HRS:

ERF-NGC-European:
This Paul Gee picture is most interesting to me, in that it appears to have a Trailor Savoyard tilt trailer, built in France. I notice that it has the tandem spread-axle bogie rather than the tandem close-axle bogie favoured by the French at the time ('70s). Can any of our French bretherin from the ‘Saviem’ thread shed any light on what possible legislation or preference might have led to this oddity?

Robert

0

Hi Robert, As know one has come back to you let me “have a go”.
Late 70’s saw a real dilemma in weights, axle specification and road fund licience for hauliers in the uk.
As you know standard was 32 ton 2+2 ( 2axlw artic + 2 axle trailer) it could then go 36 ton 3+2 or 2+3 and 38 ton on 3+3.
As trailers tend to outlast units by about 4 to 1 it was cheaper to upgrade a trailer but a close coupled tandem could take a forward axle the wide spread could not, due to turning circle restrictions ,That still apply to day.
Add this to pin lengh, short , med, long and you can see the issues arising.
What unit to buy ? 6x2 tag, mid lift, twin steer, double drive, or in the case of Volvo at one time, self steer.
Add all this to a little axle derating from the government and overall spacing between wheels for the uk bridge requirements and weights.
I am sure the answer to your question is in here somewhere.
A very difficult time for the hauliers and a bl**dy nightmare for a young’ish truck salesman, cheers Harvey

Thanks mate! I do appreciate the legislation dilemma at the UK end - indeed I used to pull tandem spreadies about myself back in the day. And of course there are legion photos around showing UK operated Trailor Savoyade tilts but not French ones. My question was about what French legislation mitigated against them following our example and spreading the axles .

Cheers, Robert

Thanks Harvey & Robert for the input.

Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

[moomooland]

DEANB:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…

[bewick]

gingerfold:

DEANB:
Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

Quite right “GF” we could load 18 tons on the 26 ton Mastiff and 32 ft Primrose single wheeled tandem. But your claim to a 19 ton payload on the Mercury/Pitt combination !! how long was the trailer ? I reckoned I was operating at the very extremes with the outfit I put together and this was only tolerable if there was a decent Driver at the wheel otherwise it was asking for trouble Cheers Bewick.

[gazsa401]

moomooland:

DEANB:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…

Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW

[deanb]

gazsa401:

moomooland:

DEANB:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…

Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW

“gazsa401” look what i came across !

[moomooland]

gazsa401:
Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW

Thanks for the kind comment Gaz here you go D73 HWW…

Seddon Atkinson 301 Series 4X2 tractor unit Reg No D73 HWW Fleet No 12 ‘Tornado’ was powered by a ■■■■■■■ L10 290 engine.
Originally registered on the 5th of August 1986 Tom Riding bought it when it was three years old off a Mr Sydney Hartley on the 5th of September 1989 for £9,000 plus vat.
It worked on general haulage for several years until it was sold on to J Stirland of Nottingham for £2,750 plus vat on the 1st of March 1993.
Photograph courtesy of Chris Richards.

Click link below for all you need to know about W & J Riding.

[deanb]

moomooland:

DEANB:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…

I did not find them on that website,and these are some other i come across elsewhere ?

[gazsa401]

DEANB:

gazsa401:

moomooland:

DEANB:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…

Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW

“gazsa401” look what i came across !

0

Great picture DEANB [emoji1303]
I know the owner of that it was a purpose built break down lorry from new to a firm in Southampton called R&A Commercials
When my mate bought it he had it repainted in Stirlands colours the VO part of the registration is from the East Midlands I do believe Nottinghamshire
Here’s a line of some restored lorries in Stirlands colours only the ERF was a genuine Stirlands lorry
Here’s GVO in colour with my dad standing in front he worked at Stirlands for 37 years

[moomooland]

DEANB:
I did not find them on that website,and these are some other i come across elsewhere ?

It’s not a problem even if you had done.
Tom Riding and myself want everyone interested in old haulage companies to enjoy the site and all it’s pictures.

Keep up the good work Dean

[deanb]

One for “windrush”

Tilcon Foden.

This one is not looking so good Pete !

Fair old line up !

[bonkeydollocks]

Those Tilcon S80x really looked the part with the insulated Cravens Homalloy bodies on them. Fab pic as ever Dean.

[lawrence_dunbar]

DEANB:
One for “windrush”

Tilcon Foden.

2

This one is not looking so good Pete !

1

Fair old line up !

0

Great shots of Tilcons motors there Sadley Tilcon dosnt exist anymore, I used to get a lot of work from their quarries in Northhumberland & Durham in the 70/80s, Regards Larry.

[moomooland]

One from your neck of the woods Bubbleman.

Joseph Fish & Sons Ltd Avonmouth been in business since the mid 1800’s.

[erf-ngc-european]

Dieseldog66:
Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

Quite right: 38-tonnes came in early '83. Robert

[revman]

DEANB:

smallcoal:

DEANB:
Paul sent me this Roadtrain pic the other day !

Looks like British Steel.

Yes British steel ran their own transport they had mixture of scammell and road trains,a couple of marathons as well the first pic is the shunter in port talbot

Heres a couple of there Crusaders John !

[revman]

BSC Rotherham

[windrush]

DEANB:
One for “windrush”

Tilcon Foden.

2

This one is not looking so good Pete !

1

Fair old line up !

0

Looks like a Forest of Dean or Gore based lorry in the first pic, our TM wouldn’t have let one of ours get in that state of filth and also missing its wheel trims!

Second pic is of an internal lorry used to feed the block plant, driven by the Late Roy Beresford it is abandoned near Cheadle, Staffs, I believe but the owner wont sell it.

Third pic is a lineup of Cheshire based sand hole trucks, possibly done for the Tilcon Times newsletter that we all got a couple of times a year.

Pete.

[kmills]

ERF-NGC-European:

Dieseldog66:
Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

Quite right: 38-tonnes came in early '83. Robert

Spread axles didn’t get you any more payload. The gross weight was the same, be it in 32 or 38 ton days. The difference was the axle weights permitted - 8T for close coupled, 9T for spread axles. So you were less likely to get done for overloaded axles with a spread, but no more payload.

[gingerfold]

Bewick:

gingerfold:

DEANB:
Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

Quite right “GF” we could load 18 tons on the 26 ton Mastiff and 32 ft Primrose single wheeled tandem. But your claim to a 19 ton payload on the Mercury/Pitt combination !! how long was the trailer ? I reckoned I was operating at the very extremes with the outfit I put together and this was only tolerable if there was a decent Driver at the wheel otherwise it was asking for trouble Cheers Bewick.

Hello Dennis, the “official” tare weight of that Mercury - Pitt Tandem-4 combination in old money was 6 tons 19cwt 2qrs and the trailer was 30 ft long. Harry Jones was the regular driver and he once brought two Caterpillar crawlers up on it from Epsom, he reckoned they weighed 21 tons in total and with them being two rather solid lumps the trailer was bent like a banana, but it straightened itself out when unloaded. The tyres could also have fried eggs when he arrived back at Bolton on Saturday lunchtime. That was one photograph I should have taken. The Mercury had a 12-speed optional splitter 'box that was a vast improvement on the standard 6-speed O/D 'box.

[deanb]

Dieseldog66:

ERF-NGC-European:
This Paul Gee picture is most interesting to me, in that it appears to have a Trailor Savoyard tilt trailer, built in France. I notice that it has the tandem spread-axle bogie rather than the tandem close-axle bogie favoured by the French at the time ('70s). Can any of our French bretherin from the ‘Saviem’ thread shed any light on what possible legislation or preference might have led to this oddity?

Robert

Hi Robert, As know one has come back to you let me “have a go”.
Late 70’s saw a real dilemma in weights, axle specification and road fund licience for hauliers in the uk.
As you know standard was 32 ton 2+2 ( 2axlw artic + 2 axle trailer) it could then go 36 ton 3+2 or 2+3 and 38 ton on 3+3.
As trailers tend to outlast units by about 4 to 1 it was cheaper to upgrade a trailer but a close coupled tandem could take a forward axle the wide spread could not, due to turning circle restrictions ,That still apply to day.
Add this to pin lengh, short , med, long and you can see the issues arising.
What unit to buy ? 6x2 tag, mid lift, twin steer, double drive, or in the case of Volvo at one time, self steer.
Add all this to a little axle derating from the government and overall spacing between wheels for the uk bridge requirements and weights.
I am sure the answer to your question is in here somewhere.
A very difficult time for the hauliers and a bl**dy nightmare for a young’ish truck salesman, cheers Harvey

Thanks mate! I do appreciate the legislation dilemma at the UK end - indeed I used to pull tandem spreadies about myself back in the day. And of course there are legion photos around showing UK operated Trailor Savoyade tilts but not French ones. My question was about what French legislation mitigated against them following our example and spreading the axles .

Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

Thanks for your input “Dieseldog66” !

Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

Quite right “GF” we could load 18 tons on the 26 ton Mastiff and 32 ft Primrose single wheeled tandem. But your claim to a 19 ton payload on the Mercury/Pitt combination !! how long was the trailer ? I reckoned I was operating at the very extremes with the outfit I put together and this was only tolerable if there was a decent Driver at the wheel otherwise it was asking for trouble Cheers Bewick.
[/quote]
Thanks for your comments Dennis !

gazsa401:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…
[/quote]
Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW
[/quote]

gazsa401:

DEANB:
Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

Yes Dean they are all off my W & J Riding website click below…

Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW
[/quote]
“gazsa401” look what i came across !

0
[/quote]
Great picture DEANB [emoji1303]
I know the owner of that it was a purpose built break down lorry from new to a firm in Southampton called R&A Commercials
When my mate bought it he had it repainted in Stirlands colours the VO part of the registration is from the East Midlands I do believe Nottinghamshire
Here’s a line of some restored lorries in Stirlands colours only the ERF was a genuine Stirlands lorry
Here’s GVO in colour with my dad standing in front he worked at Stirlands for 37 years
[/quote]
Thanks “gazsa401” for your comments and photos !

moomooland:

gazsa401:
Your website is brilliant “moomooland”
I can remember my time at Stirlands we had some ex Ridings 401s I can’t remember the reg numbers but I’m sure the were “A” reg
But I can remember a 301 D73 HWW

Thanks for the kind comment Gaz here you go D73 HWW…

0Seddon Atkinson 301 Series 4X2 tractor unit Reg No D73 HWW Fleet No 12 ‘Tornado’ was powered by a ■■■■■■■ L10 290 engine.
Originally registered on the 5th of August 1986 Tom Riding bought it when it was three years old off a Mr Sydney Hartley on the 5th of September 1989 for £9,000 plus vat.
It worked on general haulage for several years until it was sold on to J Stirland of Nottingham for £2,750 plus vat on the 1st of March 1993.
Photograph courtesy of Chris Richards.

Click link below for all you need to know about W & J Riding.

Thanks Paul for yourinput and the photos !

moomooland:

DEANB:
I did not find them on that website,and these are some other i come across elsewhere ?

It’s not a problem even if you had done.
Tom Riding and myself want everyone interested in old haulage companies to enjoy the site and all it’s pictures.

Keep up the good work Dean

FFS that means i have to find some Riding pics now !!

BonkeyDollocks:
Those Tilcon S80x really looked the part with the insulated Cravens Homalloy bodies on them. Fab pic as ever Dean.

Cheers for your comments “BonkeyDollocks”

Lawrence Dunbar:

DEANB:
One for “windrush”

Tilcon Foden.

2

This one is not looking so good Pete !

1

Fair old line up !

0

Great shots of Tilcons motors there Sadley Tilcon dosnt exist anymore, I used to get a lot of work from their quarries in Northhumberland & Durham in the 70/80s, Regards Larry.

Thanks Larry !

moomooland:
1One from your neck of the woods Bubbleman.

Joseph Fish & Sons Ltd Avonmouth been in business since the mid 1800’s.

0

Paul, i dont think there are that many pics about of Joseph Fish !

ERF-NGC-European:

Dieseldog66:
Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

Quite right: 38-tonnes came in early '83. Robert

Thanks Robert !

revman:
012 BSC Rotherham

Great pics Revman. I am surprised they were still buying day cabs and not sleepers ? Even if the work is back to base every day a sleeper
would be much easier to sell on when re newing it ?

windrush:

DEANB:
One for “windrush”

Tilcon Foden.

2

This one is not looking so good Pete !

1

Fair old line up !

0

Looks like a Forest of Dean or Gore based lorry in the first pic, our TM wouldn’t have let one of ours get in that state of filth and also missing its wheel trims!

Second pic is of an internal lorry used to feed the block plant, driven by the Late Roy Beresford it is abandoned near Cheadle, Staffs, I believe but the owner wont sell it.

Third pic is a lineup of Cheshire based sand hole trucks, possibly done for the Tilcon Times newsletter that we all got a couple of times a year.

Pete.

Thanks Pete for the information !

kmills:

ERF-NGC-European:

Dieseldog66:
Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

Quite right: 38-tonnes came in early '83. Robert

Spread axles didn’t get you any more payload. The gross weight was the same, be it in 32 or 38 ton days. The difference was the axle weights permitted - 8T for close coupled, 9T for spread axles. So you were less likely to get done for overloaded axles with a spread, but no more payload.

Cheers for your comments “kmills”

gingerfold:

Bewick:

gingerfold:

DEANB:
Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

Quite right “GF” we could load 18 tons on the 26 ton Mastiff and 32 ft Primrose single wheeled tandem. But your claim to a 19 ton payload on the Mercury/Pitt combination !! how long was the trailer ? I reckoned I was operating at the very extremes with the outfit I put together and this was only tolerable if there was a decent Driver at the wheel otherwise it was asking for trouble Cheers Bewick.

Hello Dennis, the “official” tare weight of that Mercury - Pitt Tandem-4 combination in old money was 6 tons 19cwt 2qrs and the trailer was 30 ft long. Harry Jones was the regular driver and he once brought two Caterpillar crawlers up on it from Epsom, he reckoned they weighed 21 tons in total and with them being two rather solid lumps the trailer was bent like a banana, but it straightened itself out when unloaded. The tyres could also have fried eggs when he arrived back at Bolton on Saturday lunchtime. That was one photograph I should have taken. The Mercury had a 12-speed optional splitter 'box that was a vast improvement on the standard 6-speed O/D 'box.

Thanks “gingerfold” “bent like a banana”