PAUL GEE's PHOTO COLLECTION (Part 1)

[smallcoal]

1 of hills, sharples of eardisley and An old Atki tipper

[moomooland]

Morning Dean,
Sent Paul’s picture to Martin Sykes, chairman of Sykes Seafoods, who are still very much in business today here is the reply i recieved…

That brings back memories, Paul.
We started running our own vehicles on a daily basis to Aberdeen in the late sixties, but the Fords we used could not stand the continuous non stop use.
In 1969 I bought my first ERF from Peter Foden, who later became a good golfing friend.
He equipped them with Gardner Diesel engines derived from the marine engines manufactured by another good friend, Paul Gardner, and which could run for ever at a most economical rate (8 miles per gallon).
My father went ballistic when he heard the price of £5,000 for the first one as the Fords only cost £2,000, but at least I wasn’t woken by reverse charge calls each night from drivers broken down on Shap with 10 tons of fresh fish.
The vehicle in your photograph would be early seventies, by which time we were shipping them over to Denmark via Harwich, mainly artics, and collecting fish from all round Jutland.
At our peak we ran 15 artics and 5 rigids, covering south west and north east Scotland, Cornwall, Devon, Denmark and Holland as well servicing the whole of England and Wales.
Now all our transport is sub contracted, but some of our vehicles are still used in Grimsby, but no longer ERF’s.
Regards
Martin Sykes
Chairman -Sykes Seafoods.

[punchy_dan]

What a detailed and pleasant reply .

[chrisarbon]

Sometimes I think we are truly blessed by some of the stuff that gets posted on Trucknet.

[240_gardner]

gingerfold:

DEANB:
Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

I remember Chew Bros (from Blackburn) running some 400 Series, but I don’t remember sever seeing this Merc

[deanb]

gingerfold:

DEANB:
Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

Thanks for your comments “gingerfold”

smallcoal:

DEANB:

smallcoal:
These are from pete359 collection the aec my uncle drove and I had for shunting in the abbey steelworks the scammell was used internal down the bos plant cheers John

Thanks for the pics John, heres another of Joint Motorways ERF’s.

1

Andrew had this erf done up in joints livery excellent pic of the joints artic credit to you both cheers John

That looked nice,thanks for posting the pic !

smallcoal:
1 of hills, sharples of eardisley and An old Atki tipper

Great pics John, thanks for posting !

moomooland:
0Morning Dean,
Sent Paul’s picture to Martin Sykes, chairman of Sykes Seafoods, who are still very much in business today here is the reply i recieved…

That brings back memories, Paul.
We started running our own vehicles on a daily basis to Aberdeen in the late sixties, but the Fords we used could not stand the continuous non stop use.
In 1969 I bought my first ERF from Peter Foden, who later became a good golfing friend.
He equipped them with Gardner Diesel engines derived from the marine engines manufactured by another good friend, Paul Gardner, and which could run for ever at a most economical rate (8 miles per gallon).
My father went ballistic when he heard the price of £5,000 for the first one as the Fords only cost £2,000, but at least I wasn’t woken by reverse charge calls each night from drivers broken down on Shap with 10 tons of fresh fish.
The vehicle in your photograph would be early seventies, by which time we were shipping them over to Denmark via Harwich, mainly artics, and collecting fish from all round Jutland.
At our peak we ran 15 artics and 5 rigids, covering south west and north east Scotland, Cornwall, Devon, Denmark and Holland as well servicing the whole of England and Wales.
Now all our transport is sub contracted, but some of our vehicles are still used in Grimsby, but no longer ERF’s.
Regards
Martin Sykes
Chairman -Sykes Seafoods.

Thanks for posting that message Paul,intresting bit of history !

Punchy Dan:
What a detailed and pleasant reply .

Agreed !

ChrisArbon:
Sometimes I think we are truly blessed by some of the stuff that gets posted on Trucknet.

Indeed “ChrisArbon” there is some fascinating stuff posted !

240 Gardner:

gingerfold:

DEANB:
Chew Bros mercedes.Only single wheels on the trailer,most were double back then.

6

It’s a lightweight trailer design, either a Pitt Tandem-4, or a similar type made by Primrose. The restricted the GTW to 26 tons. With a light unit coupled to one of these the payload was only a couple of tons less than a 32 tonner. E.G. an AEC Mercury tractor unit plus Pitt tandem-4 we ran tared off at 7 tons, so a legal 19 tons payload. Mr Bewick had a similar take on getting a quart out of a pint pot in his early years.

I remember Chew Bros (from Blackburn) running some 400 Series, but I don’t remember sever seeing this Merc

Thanks “240 Gardner” for your comments.

[deanb]

Some pics.

Anyone recognise the Marathon ■■?

Carmans draw-bar F86 ,with a couple of D series behind.

Victaulic Foden. Unusual company name ■■

Roman of R.G. Pipelines.

Anyone recognise the ERF bulk tanker ■■?

New ERF tractor unit.

Old ERF. Is that a Datsun behind ?

Judge ERF ,looks well loaded looking at the sheet.

Raleigh Bedford TM

Norman Walker Foden.

[hrs]

ERF-NGC-European:
This Paul Gee picture is most interesting to me, in that it appears to have a Trailor Savoyard tilt trailer, built in France. I notice that it has the tandem spread-axle bogie rather than the tandem close-axle bogie favoured by the French at the time ('70s). Can any of our French bretherin from the ‘Saviem’ thread shed any light on what possible legislation or preference might have led to this oddity?

Robert

0

Hi Robert, As know one has come back to you let me “have a go”.
Late 70’s saw a real dilemma in weights, axle specification and road fund licience for hauliers in the uk.
As you know standard was 32 ton 2+2 ( 2axlw artic + 2 axle trailer) it could then go 36 ton 3+2 or 2+3 and 38 ton on 3+3.
As trailers tend to outlast units by about 4 to 1 it was cheaper to upgrade a trailer but a close coupled tandem could take a forward axle the wide spread could not, due to turning circle restrictions ,That still apply to day.
Add this to pin lengh, short , med, long and you can see the issues arising.
What unit to buy ? 6x2 tag, mid lift, twin steer, double drive, or in the case of Volvo at one time, self steer.
Add all this to a little axle derating from the government and overall spacing between wheels for the uk bridge requirements and weights.
I am sure the answer to your question is in here somewhere.
A very difficult time for the hauliers and a bl**dy nightmare for a young’ish truck salesman, cheers Harvey

[deanb]

Two of Peter Ford’s Mercedes

Bulk Vacuum Service Leyland Octopus.

Freightline Scania 111 overtaking CM Downton Leyland Buffalo, with maggie behind and looks like
another Downton Leyland further back.

Big J Guy bulker,anyone recognise it ■■?

Volvo F86 of B L Hughes & Son.

Anyone recognise the marathon ■■?

Western transport Scania

Joseph Fish & Sons Borderer

H.J.Cutler from Poole.

Springfields Foden tanker.

[moomooland]

At first i thought this was Keele Bank on the M6 just North of Junction 15.
Turns out its looking North off the Upton Lane bridge towards Junction 11a on the M5 at Upton St Leonards near Gloucester.

Tom Riding tells me that this Atkinson Defender Reg No JGA 160N was supplied brand new to Yuill and Dodds of Hamilton Scotland
It was one of three that Tom’s cousin Colin Carefoot bought second hand from Yuill & Dodds when they were three years old.

[bob-lad]

hia dean great pics as usual the marathon looks like redpath dorman long and the erf bulker could be febrys a big firm at the time the freightline scanias used to backload of us at bowies with kraft oils cheers rob

[albion1938]

Victaulic Foden. Unusual company name ■■
My late brother worked for Victaulic in the factory when he moved to Huntingdon on the new towns scheme in 1963. He hated the job as he was a driver but no driving jobs available so it it was a stopgap until he got back on the lorries. IIRC they manufactured big rubber grommets and pipe fittings, don’t know whether they had any other locations but that Foden is Cambridgeshire registered.
Bernard

[tranconfred]

The victaulic foden came from there hitchin dept would be delivering to drainage systems depts.

[pete_smith]

Hi Dean,
The Octopus bulker is Lionel T Phillips, you could see their yard off the M5 going south just before jcn 23 if I remember correctly,

[pete_smith]

Forgot to add this , the Guy 8 legger I’m sure it is one of John Hills from just off Jcn 10 M6 near Walsall, it has a Walsall registration also and Hills used to have greedy boards fitted to back load coke to one of the local foundries, they also ran ERF’s, Cheer’s Pete

[deanb]

moomooland:
Seen here heading North up Keele Bank on the M6.
You can see the mile marker board for Junction 15 on the Southbound carriageway.

Tom Riding tells me that this Atkinson Defender Reg No JGA 160N was supplied brand new to Yuill and Dodds of Hamilton Scotland
It was one of three that Tom’s cousin Colin Carefoot bought second hand from Yuill & Dodds when they were three years old.

P.S. Deano, We must be due another Riding’s picture in the not to distant future.

Paul, Thanks for the info on Carefoot,here’s another one !

[deanb]

Dont know if you have sen these before Paul ?

[erf-ngc-european]

HRS:

ERF-NGC-European:
This Paul Gee picture is most interesting to me, in that it appears to have a Trailor Savoyard tilt trailer, built in France. I notice that it has the tandem spread-axle bogie rather than the tandem close-axle bogie favoured by the French at the time ('70s). Can any of our French bretherin from the ‘Saviem’ thread shed any light on what possible legislation or preference might have led to this oddity?

Robert

0

Hi Robert, As know one has come back to you let me “have a go”.
Late 70’s saw a real dilemma in weights, axle specification and road fund licience for hauliers in the uk.
As you know standard was 32 ton 2+2 ( 2axlw artic + 2 axle trailer) it could then go 36 ton 3+2 or 2+3 and 38 ton on 3+3.
As trailers tend to outlast units by about 4 to 1 it was cheaper to upgrade a trailer but a close coupled tandem could take a forward axle the wide spread could not, due to turning circle restrictions ,That still apply to day.
Add this to pin lengh, short , med, long and you can see the issues arising.
What unit to buy ? 6x2 tag, mid lift, twin steer, double drive, or in the case of Volvo at one time, self steer.
Add all this to a little axle derating from the government and overall spacing between wheels for the uk bridge requirements and weights.
I am sure the answer to your question is in here somewhere.
A very difficult time for the hauliers and a bl**dy nightmare for a young’ish truck salesman, cheers Harvey

Thanks mate! I do appreciate the legislation dilemma at the UK end - indeed I used to pull tandem spreadies about myself back in the day. And of course there are legion photos around showing UK operated Trailor Savoyade tilts but not French ones. My question was about what French legislation mitigated against them following our example and spreading the axles .

Cheers, Robert

[deanb]

bob-lad:
hia dean great pics as usual the marathon looks like redpath dorman long and the erf bulker could be febrys a big firm at the time the freightline scanias used to backload of us at bowies with kraft oils cheers rob

Thanks Rob for the information.

albion1938:
Victaulic Foden. Unusual company name ■■
My late brother worked for Victaulic in the factory when he moved to Huntingdon on the new towns scheme in 1963. He hated the job as he was a driver but no driving jobs available so it it was a stopgap until he got back on the lorries. IIRC they manufactured big rubber grommets and pipe fittings, don’t know whether they had any other locations but that Foden is Cambridgeshire registered.
Bernard

Thanks for the comment Bernard !

Tranconfred:
The victaulic foden came from there hitchin dept would be delivering to drainage systems depts.

Cheers “Transconfred” for the input.

pete smith:
Hi Dean,
The Octopus bulker is Lionel T Phillips, you could see their yard off the M5 going south just before jcn 23 if I remember correctly,

pete smith:
Forgot to add this , the Guy 8 legger I’m sure it is one of John Hills from just off Jcn 10 M6 near Walsall, it has a Walsall registration also and Hills used to have greedy boards fitted to back load coke to one of the local foundries, they also ran ERF’s, Cheer’s Pete

Thanks Pete for the info on those trucks !

ERF-NGC-European:

HRS:

ERF-NGC-European:
This Paul Gee picture is most interesting to me, in that it appears to have a Trailor Savoyard tilt trailer, built in France. I notice that it has the tandem spread-axle bogie rather than the tandem close-axle bogie favoured by the French at the time ('70s). Can any of our French bretherin from the ‘Saviem’ thread shed any light on what possible legislation or preference might have led to this oddity?

Robert

0

Hi Robert, As know one has come back to you let me “have a go”.
Late 70’s saw a real dilemma in weights, axle specification and road fund licience for hauliers in the uk.
As you know standard was 32 ton 2+2 ( 2axlw artic + 2 axle trailer) it could then go 36 ton 3+2 or 2+3 and 38 ton on 3+3.
As trailers tend to outlast units by about 4 to 1 it was cheaper to upgrade a trailer but a close coupled tandem could take a forward axle the wide spread could not, due to turning circle restrictions ,That still apply to day.
Add this to pin lengh, short , med, long and you can see the issues arising.
What unit to buy ? 6x2 tag, mid lift, twin steer, double drive, or in the case of Volvo at one time, self steer.
Add all this to a little axle derating from the government and overall spacing between wheels for the uk bridge requirements and weights.
I am sure the answer to your question is in here somewhere.
A very difficult time for the hauliers and a bl**dy nightmare for a young’ish truck salesman, cheers Harvey

Thanks mate! I do appreciate the legislation dilemma at the UK end - indeed I used to pull tandem spreadies about myself back in the day. And of course there are legion photos around showing UK operated Trailor Savoyade tilts but not French ones. My question was about what French legislation mitigated against them following our example and spreading the axles .

Cheers, Robert

Thanks Harvey & Robert for the input.

[dieseldog66]

DEANB:

bob-lad:
hia dean great pics as usual the marathon looks like redpath dorman long and the erf bulker could be febrys a big firm at the time the freightline scanias used to backload of us at bowies with kraft oils cheers rob

Thanks Rob for the information.

albion1938:
Victaulic Foden. Unusual company name ■■
My late brother worked for Victaulic in the factory when he moved to Huntingdon on the new towns scheme in 1963. He hated the job as he was a driver but no driving jobs available so it it was a stopgap until he got back on the lorries. IIRC they manufactured big rubber grommets and pipe fittings, don’t know whether they had any other locations but that Foden is Cambridgeshire registered.
Bernard

Thanks for the comment Bernard !
Have I missed something here 38 ton on 5 axles was fine, but didn’t come in to the UK till 83. Spread axle got you an extra ton payload.
We ran close running tandems at Hercocks by Trailor (F), although we did run some close spaced triaxle French not sure of the make on Richard Ford, not sure of the rating but they followed great.

Tranconfred:
The victaulic foden came from there hitchin dept would be delivering to drainage systems depts.

Cheers “Transconfred” for the input.

pete smith:
Hi Dean,
The Octopus bulker is Lionel T Phillips, you could see their yard off the M5 going south just before jcn 23 if I remember correctly,

pete smith:
Forgot to add this , the Guy 8 legger I’m sure it is one of John Hills from just off Jcn 10 M6 near Walsall, it has a Walsall registration also and Hills used to have greedy boards fitted to back load coke to one of the local foundries, they also ran ERF’s, Cheer’s Pete

Thanks Pete for the info on those trucks !

ERF-NGC-European:

HRS:

ERF-NGC-European:
This Paul Gee picture is most interesting to me, in that it appears to have a Trailor Savoyard tilt trailer, built in France. I notice that it has the tandem spread-axle bogie rather than the tandem close-axle bogie favoured by the French at the time ('70s). Can any of our French bretherin from the ‘Saviem’ thread shed any light on what possible legislation or preference might have led to this oddity?

Robert

0

Hi Robert, As know one has come back to you let me “have a go”.
Late 70’s saw a real dilemma in weights, axle specification and road fund licience for hauliers in the uk.
As you know standard was 32 ton 2+2 ( 2axlw artic + 2 axle trailer) it could then go 36 ton 3+2 or 2+3 and 38 ton on 3+3.
As trailers tend to outlast units by about 4 to 1 it was cheaper to upgrade a trailer but a close coupled tandem could take a forward axle the wide spread could not, due to turning circle restrictions ,That still apply to day.
Add this to pin lengh, short , med, long and you can see the issues arising.
What unit to buy ? 6x2 tag, mid lift, twin steer, double drive, or in the case of Volvo at one time, self steer.
Add all this to a little axle derating from the government and overall spacing between wheels for the uk bridge requirements and weights.
I am sure the answer to your question is in here somewhere.
A very difficult time for the hauliers and a bl**dy nightmare for a young’ish truck salesman, cheers Harvey

Thanks mate! I do appreciate the legislation dilemma at the UK end - indeed I used to pull tandem spreadies about myself back in the day. And of course there are legion photos around showing UK operated Trailor Savoyade tilts but not French ones. My question was about what French legislation mitigated against them following our example and spreading the axles .

Cheers, Robert

Thanks Harvey & Robert for the input.