Right, I’ve been waiting for permission from Rikki to post this for over two weeks so I’m just going to go ahead and do it.
Please sign this petition to parliament asking the government to make it a requirement that MSAs have security overnight to counter the actions of the miscreants who attack vehicles.
Would it not be easier just NOT to patronise these extortionate ■■■■ holes ■■
I know and you know that you’re going to be financially bummed just for parking a truck, receive overpriced and crap food at a discount…, and stand a bloody good chance of being turned over, so why not just park somewhere else. 
You would be better off petioning the Insurance ombudsman to discourage the ridiculous insistence by some ins co.s, of HAVING to park there in order to be covered by insurance. 
I aint signing any petition to help these ■■■■ s to gain more custom from financially stretched truck drivers, so …Sorry mate, but ‘It’s a no from me’
^ A rare occasion where I’m in full agreement with robroy. My thoughts exactly. The solution is really simply : don’t use them! If you have no choice because of “company policy” then that’s their problem to deal with when the trailer gets emptied, not yours.
robroy:
Would it not be easier just NOT to patronise these extortionate [zb] holes ■■
No, its not as easy as you seem to think. If you are constantly doing building sites and things like that you can avoid them fairly easily because:
:: You can usually park at the loading or tipping point.
:: You are usually starting so bloody early your time is up just after lunch.
:: Early starts and early finishes mean you miss a lot of the traffic that holds the rest of us up.
:: Early starts and early finishes mean you can still get a space at one of the few decent truckstops in the country. Or one of the really crap truckstops in the country.
:: Your load, while important to you and your customers, isn’t particularly desirable or particularly knickable.
When you do the sort of work I tend to do its a bit different:
:: No loading before 08:00
:: Timed deliveries, usually RDCs in the mid to late afternoon, so by the time you have got your back load on and got out you are in rush hour traffic and then scrapping to find a space large enough
for the unit, let alone the trailer.
:: Or by the time you have got out you have missed the reload closing and have to wait until 08:00 the next day to be loaded. I would never ask a bloke to go 15hrs without access to sanitation so in this case paid parking is pretty much a necessity too. Of course being empty and with the back doors open, you would think you would be safe but no, I have been cut before when empty, usually the bigger cuts come empty, almost as if the ■■■■■■■■ are punishing you for not having something for them to steal.
:: Long motorway runs on tight time schedules, so deviating from the course risks getting to the delivery on time. MSA’s are the only real option then as motorways don’t have laybys, unless you have PL or BG on your number plate when bridges, wide load bays and even ERAs are all fair game apparently.
:: The good truck stops fill up very early. The only one you have half a chance of getting into at 20:00 in England is Colsterworth, which is a heck of a long detour if your delivery is to St Helens! In Scotland its a bit better because Lesmahagow always has spare space in car park 2, but then you have the Hayton boys in and out all night picking up B&M loads making noise, which is fair enough as its their yard, and all the running fridges. Still noisy and secure is better than quite and 3t lighter in the morning.
:: Doing booze, or confectionary, or electricals is a lot more knickable, and desirable, than 26plt of breeze blocks. So a dark layby just off the Aseventygazillion might be cheaper, it might actually be more secure, but, if you are wrong and you do end up 50 flat screen tellies short of a load the insurance company will scream contributory negligence and refuse to pay out, regardless of any clauses you might or might not have in your policy. Because parking a valuable load in the middle of nowhere is contributory negligence no matter how you cut it.
robroy:
I aint signing any petition to help these [zb] s to gain more custom from financially stretched truck drivers, so …Sorry mate, but ‘It’s a no from me’
I appreciate your honesty, your opinion and your right to hold it. I also appreciate the Banatyne. Its a shame from where I sit, but you are free to do as you feel is right.
Rob K:
^ A rare occasion where I’m in full agreement with robroy. My thoughts exactly. The solution is really simply : don’t use them! If you have no choice because of “company policy” then that’s their problem to deal with when the trailer gets emptied, not yours.
Where then should drivers park? There is a already a shortage of truck sized skyhooks in most of the UK. If all trucks boycotted MSAs then they would get taken even sooner.
And Im sure NSmith has a few comments about responsibility for choosing parking places*. For myself, I dont like the idea of filling out forms after my load has been nicked or damaged.
Franglais:
And Im sure NSmith has a few comments about responsibility for choosing parking places*. For myself, I dont like the idea of filling out forms after my load has been nicked or damaged.
- Already done, and looks good to me.
Aye, I do have comments! Its company policy, I’d have to fire myself!
And thanks for the support Franglais, given how often we are on opposite sides of each debate, it means a lot to me.
I don’t condone the price of MSA’s I do however believe they have a care of duty to their paying customers which includes at its most basic level security for driver and load…
Another thought, if MSAs were better, that would mean more would use them, so freeing more parking “off piste” for the various Robs of this world?
Cmon you two! Its in your interest to sign as well! 
Franglais:
Another thought, if MSAs were better, that would mean more would use them, so freeing more parking “off piste” for the various Robs of this world?
Cmon you two! Its in your interest to sign as well!
No. It’s just business. They offer a service ‘as is’. You either accept the terms on offer and pay, or, you don’t and you find somewhere else to park. Nowhere else the park? You’re not trying hard enough. If you can’t be arsed trying harder then ■■■■ it up, pay your dues and accept that you might wake up in the morning to an empty trailer. You’ve only got yourself to blame if you’re letting your company run you to 15 hours and leaving you no time to find suitable parking and if it’s stressing you that much leave and get a job that doesn’t involve nights out. You have endless options available to you but what I can tell you is setting up government petitions to get privately run companies to change their T&Cs will achieve diddly-squat other than it be promptly filed in the round basket and dismissed.
What has it got to do with the government if a company doesn’t provide the service you want?
Unless you plan on nationalizing truck parking I don’t think they have any right to demand commercial entities provide security. It’s up to you where you park - if the services are not secure you can always choose to do local runs and park at your own depot. But you are making a business decision to go further afield and park in these places.
Let’s extend this further - should the car park at Tesco’s provide security incase my car is broken into? Should the council provide security for my car on the street?
That sounds harsh - but it’s the truth. The government will have no interest in this. The only way the services will do it if it’s in their interest financially to do so.
I will sign the petition, but I don’t hold out any hope of it generating enough signatures for it to have any impact. The problem of parking is not a new one, but as far as the government are concerned, and that applies to all the governments over the last 15-20 years, there is enough parking and besides which, it is up to hauliers not the government to provide suitable overnight parking.
MSA’s only allow us to park there because there were told when they built them that they had to provide spaces for us. There is no incentive for them to have trucks parked on site, let alone pay for security, which will only be a minimum wage guy who wouldn’t stop any vehicle break-ins on health and safety grounds. Why would any MSA pay for security then risk getting sued by said guard when he gets injured trying to stop a theft? Coupled with how a minority of drivers treat these areas, is it any surprise they don’t want us there. There needs to be a concerted effort in building new, secure parking areas for us. We will have to pay for the privilege because it will only happen if private companies get involved. How many haulage yards are empty or nearly empty through the week? Most of these yards I’m guessing have some sort of security on them. It would be an extra income stream for those businesses to charge us for parking intheir yards.
In my opinion, this situation will only improve if the big guns, be that unions or RHA/FTA get involved and push for changes. Drivers taking actions as a group won’t have any effect.
sammym:
What has it got to do with the government if a company doesn’t provide the service you want?Unless you plan on nationalizing truck parking I don’t think they have any right to demand commercial entities provide security. It’s up to you where you park - if the services are not secure you can always choose to do local runs and park at your own depot. But you are making a business decision to go further afield and park in these places.
Let’s extend this further - should the car park at Tesco’s provide security incase my car is broken into? Should the council provide security for my car on the street?
That sounds harsh - but it’s the truth. The government will have no interest in this. The only way the services will do it if it’s in their interest financially to do so.
As is so often the case young lad your argument is flawed, you don’t pay to park in Tesco’s or on the street so you have no right to expect any level of service, in an MSA you pay what, nigh on £30? Damned right they should provide a fat retired ex-regiment gangrene infested protector of the people.
sammym:
The only way the services will do it if it’s in their interest financially to do so.
^ This is the long and short of it. :yes:
Reef:
sammym:
What has it got to do with the government if a company doesn’t provide the service you want?Unless you plan on nationalizing truck parking I don’t think they have any right to demand commercial entities provide security. It’s up to you where you park - if the services are not secure you can always choose to do local runs and park at your own depot. But you are making a business decision to go further afield and park in these places.
Let’s extend this further - should the car park at Tesco’s provide security incase my car is broken into? Should the council provide security for my car on the street?
That sounds harsh - but it’s the truth. The government will have no interest in this. The only way the services will do it if it’s in their interest financially to do so.
As is so often the case young lad your argument is flawed, you don’t pay to park in Tesco’s or on the street so you have no right to expect any level of service, in an MSA you pay what, nigh on £30? Damned right they should provide a fat retired ex-regiment gangrene infested protector of the people.
I most certainly do pay to park on my street. I have to purchase a permit. And the amount paid is immaterial. I either accept the terms or I don’t.
I pay to park my car in Birmingham when I go shopping. Again I don’t think that the council or private car park should be responsible for securing my vehicle. If I want that service I can look for it - but the law should mean they have to give it. It’s a free market decision. If there was the demand it would be there. And it’s not so there isn’t.
Reef:
sammym:
What has it got to do with the government if a company doesn’t provide the service you want?Unless you plan on nationalizing truck parking I don’t think they have any right to demand commercial entities provide security. It’s up to you where you park - if the services are not secure you can always choose to do local runs and park at your own depot. But you are making a business decision to go further afield and park in these places.
Let’s extend this further - should the car park at Tesco’s provide security incase my car is broken into? Should the council provide security for my car on the street?
That sounds harsh - but it’s the truth. The government will have no interest in this. The only way the services will do it if it’s in their interest financially to do so.
As is so often the case young lad your argument is flawed, you don’t pay to park in Tesco’s or on the street so you have no right to expect any level of service, in an MSA you pay what, nigh on £30? Damned right they should provide a fat retired ex-regiment gangrene infested protector of the people.
On what grounds? They’re a private business that offer a range of services in exchange for a fee. As stated already, you are not forced to use them if you do not like the terms and quality of their services on offer. Is anyone holding a gun to your head? No.
The fact of the matter is that with a small number of exceptions they have a captive market for overnighting truckers and demand far outstrips supply, ergo they can charge whatever price they want because they know that the hauliers will pay it as they have no easy alternatives. 20 years ago it was around a tenner a night on average. Today it’s 3x that. Give it another decade and you’ll be paying £40 or £50 per night and they’ll still be packed to the rafters every night without any improvement in security, food or facilities.
And you know what? If it were my business I’d be doing exactly the same! The hauliers don’t care and just write off the amount as a business cost so why should I spend any of my money on extra security when I’ve got trucks queueing down the slip road as far as the eye can see all ready to hand me £30 for a truck-sized piece of tarmac for 11 hours? It’s a licence to print money and with local authorities automatically blocking any planning request for new LGV parking locations the prices will continue to rise.
sammym:
I most certainly do pay to park on my street. I have to purchase a permit. And the amount paid is immaterial. I either accept the terms or I don’t.
So, that isn`t a “free market decision” is it? Is there available land with planning permission for purchase by a possible car park entrepreneur?
sammym:
Unless you plan on nationalizing truck parking I don’t think they have any right to demand commercial entities provide security.
What about Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations? Isnt it fair to expect a basic level of security in return for your twenty or thirty quid? (No, I dont think any private case would get too far!) When MSAs were first provided they were only leased to the operators, and were run as a service to road users, not the penny squeezing businesses theyve turned into. Yep, I reckon it`d be good to have some better infrastructure. Why spend time and diesel driving in circles to find a space on an industrial estate? Look at damage by trucks parking on grass verges. Why spent on increased insurance premiums to cover thefts? MSAs lack of security is only one facet of the general lack of suitable provision.
The Government is responsible for providing infrastructure for business. Generally we don`t have a “free market” in roads in this country, nor do they in other “free market” democracies. Parking provision should be part of a planned government strategy. It is too important to be left to chance.
Dont we all pay taxes for a police service for us all? Getting an incident number isnt good enough IMHO. Because a small number of the rich can afford to buy extra security in walled communities, should we listen when they say “cut taxes”.
Ive said it before, we dont pay enough tax.
Many quote the saying “you get what you pay for” when talking of nice cars, or phones, or fuel; why not the same when talking of sick pay, hospitals,or in this case policing?
On another tack, we don`t need a “have a go hero” to take on any thieves, just someone to keep an eye open, and phone the cops.
Sorry if its a bit of jumbled, confused post, but thats just a reflection of my head.
Franglais:
What about Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations? Isnt it fair to expect a basic level of security in return for your twenty or thirty quid? (No, I don`t think any private case would get too far!)
Not in my opinion. You are conflating the service you want to the one offered.
I might want a steak and chips - but if I go into a restaurant and pay for a salad I can’t claim to have been swindled because I got what I paid for.
Service areas do not offer a security service. They don’t claim to provide this. They say you can park at your own risk for a given amount of money. Just because some people want a different product doesn’t mean that a business has to provide it.
I can see the frustration. But there are two realities. 1 - if there was really the demand for this it would be provided. A smart business person would be offering secure parking and making a lot of money. 2 - the cost of the security would be far far more than what is being suggested. Call up a security firm and ask how much for 24 hour permanent security coverage. Then add the cost of the gates and barriers. The idea you’d only offer the security at night is laughable. What about the night trampers? What about the guys parking up for a 45?
And after you had all that security… there would still be damage and thefts. You also want the parking provider to pay for that damage? After they have done their best…
So how much do you think this dream parking service would cost? I can tell you now Neil would not pay for it and he would happily accept the £850 it’s cost him. Which is why this is a none starter. It’s not going to happen and those who think it is are living in the clouds.
If they charge £30 or whatever a night now if they are forced to employ security then you’ll be paying £60 a night to cover the employment costs of 2 security guards…then you’ll be doing another petition 
A petition with 300, 1000, or 10,000 signatories isn’t worth Jack!
One of the biggest problems is booking times, 17 lorries arrive at Warehouse A at 8am. Seven lorries are unloading and 10 lorries collecting. When the drivers time is up, they are stuck on an MSA or an industrial area because their day was wasted by Warehouse A. [emoji47]
sammym:
Franglais:
What about Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations? Isnt it fair to expect a basic level of security in return for your twenty or thirty quid? (No, I don`t think any private case would get too far!)Not in my opinion. You are conflating the service you want to the one offered.
I might want a steak and chips - but if I go into a restaurant and pay for a salad I can’t claim to have been swindled because I got what I paid for.
Service areas do not offer a security service. They don’t claim to provide this. They say you can park at your own risk for a given amount of money. Just because some people want a different product doesn’t mean that a business has to provide it.
I can see the frustration. But there are two realities. 1 - if there was really the demand for this it would be provided. A smart business person would be offering secure parking and making a lot of money. 2 - the cost of the security would be far far more than what is being suggested. Call up a security firm and ask how much for 24 hour permanent security coverage. Then add the cost of the gates and barriers. The idea you’d only offer the security at night is laughable. What about the night trampers? What about the guys parking up for a 45?
And after you had all that security… there would still be damage and thefts. You also want the parking provider to pay for that damage? After they have done their best…
So how much do you think this dream parking service would cost? I can tell you now Neil would not pay for it and he would happily accept the £850 it’s cost him. Which is why this is a none starter. It’s not going to happen and those who think it is are living in the clouds.
I dont think we are discussing a free market situation. When we need a parking area we have limited choice about where to go, and as already pointed out the commercial sector cant buy land to provide a choice because of planning regs.
There is no suggestion from me for security gates and dog patrols, just a bit more camera coverage with a human being on site doing an occasional walkround. Would the parking company be responsible for compensating for losses? Again, Im not suggesting that, the expectation is for a service of reasonable quality. Look at this: from the Consumer Protection Act "The regulation prohibits practices that: contravene the requirements of professional diligence (defined as the standard of special skill and care that a trader may reasonably be expected to exercise towards consumers, which is commensurate with either honest market practice in the trader's field of activity or the general principle of good faith in the trader's field of activity)" I would suggest that a parking company wouldnt be expected to have dog patrols etc, BUT a reasonable consumer would expect some level of duty of care for security. Taking £30 quid and then closing your eyes isnt a reasonable exchange IMHO. It doesnt even have to be a permanent guard does it? One guard in a van doing maybe both sides of two MSAs? Enough of a deterrent? Interrupt one or two thieves would make it less attractive than the seemingly risk free job it is now? And Ill repeat no need for any guard to "have a go", just phone the police. And Ill repeat the previous point, I dont think truck parking should be a purely commercial transaction, it should be more of a joined up piece of planing by local and national governments. We pay taxes, we deserve better policing of public spaces, and Ill willing pay more for it. I reckon Id rather pay a bit more to live in a society where crime really doesnt pay. For a cynical old bugger I still have a pair of rosy specs in my pocket!
£850 quid for one incident? After how many nights parked? You shouldnt take one incident and extrapolate for a year, but it doesnt look too hopeful does it? If the parking costs £30 without security and £60 with, as Chris is guesstimating it would be cheaper to pay that for nearly thirty nights wouldn`t it.
And does that £850 take account of all the costs? Time taken in sorting out the mess, and any reputational losses if an innocent haulier gets the load nicked more than once?