can some one please clarify before i have an arcuement with the boss,that sitting at a tesco rdc getting tipped in there waitin room is counted as poa? cheers
i think its working time as you cant do what you want, you are forced to sit there like a prison cell. if you wanted to use it as a break or poa to suit yourself thats up to you. but to me a break is time meant for me to do as i will.
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.
The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Wheel Nut:
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Actually, JD is quite correct, not only must you be free to do as you please, you have to have been informed exactly how long your period of POA will be.
Wheel Nut:
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Hullo Wheelnut,
I’ve got a language problem here, or maybe I’m just a bit thick. What the [zb] is P.O.A. or R.D.C. ? Drivers are,nt talking English anymore are they ? Is it Price on Application , and Rural District Council or what ? It would be good to know.
Cheers, Archie.
The driver must also know from the outset how long he will be waiting. e.g. If they say “Stick it on the bay and we’ll get round to it as soon as wen can.” Then technically it’s not POA.
If they say “Stick it on the bay and we’ll get started in about half an hour.” Then technically that 1/2 hour can be counted as POA. Additionally, the time spent waiting while they are actually tipping you can be counted as POA as long as you know (either because they tell you or from your own experience) roughly how long that will take.
From the DoT website:
"2.3 What is a period of availability?
Generally speaking a period of availability (PoA) is waiting time, the duration of which is known about in advance by the mobile worker. Under the Regulations, these periods have to meet the following criteria:
-a mobile worker should not be required to remain at their workstation;
-(but) they must be available to answer calls to start work or resume driving on request;
-the period and the foreseeable duration should be known in advance by the mobile worker, either before departure or just before the start of the period in question.
Like breaks and rest periods, a PoA can be taken at the workstation. Providing the mobile worker has a reasonable amount of freedom (e.g. they can relax and read), for a known duration, this would satisfy the requirements for a PoA. Where the mobile worker knows about a delay in advance, but it is deemed prudent that they should remain in the cab for reasons of security or safety, this should not in itself, disqualify this delay being recorded as a PoA. Typical examples might include waiting at a site that is unsafe for pedestrians or staying in a vehicle carrying high value goods or cash.
Mobile workers do not need to be formally notified about a PoA and its duration in advance. It is enough that they know about it (and the foreseeable duration), in advance either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question. A PoA would be deemed to be known in advance by a mobile worker if, for example:
-someone (who does not have to be their employer) has told them, or
-they have arrived too early for their allocated slot, or
-they always experience a delay at one of their regular customers."
The same website specifically gives waiting at an RDC as an example of POA.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/workingtime/rdtransportworkingtimeguidance?page=4#a1003
Excellent, Roymondo, round of applause. 
tramper37:
can some one please clarify before i have an arcuement with the boss,that sitting at a tesco rdc getting tipped in there waitin room is counted as poa? cheers
If you know how long you’ll be waiting you can legally book it as POA break or other work, if you don’t know how long you’ll be waiting you can legally book break or other work
To be honest booking POA can screw up what’s shown as your driving time on the digital tachograph so if you get paid for the breaks I’d book that if you’re on a digital tacho.
Archie Paice:
What the [zb] is P.O.A. or R.D.C. ?
POA = Period of Availability
RDC = Regional Distribution Centre
DieselDemon:
Actually, JD is quite correct, not only must you be free to do as you please, you have to have been informed exactly how long your period of POA will be.
That’s not correct - you only need to know roughly how long it will be, and you can get that knowledge from your own previous experience without anyone telling you anything at all. e.g. If you know that Tescos at wherever it is usually take an hour to tip you, then an hour spent waiting can be POA. But if there was a hitch and it went on for another hour then strictly speaking that second hour would not be classed as POA unless they told you about the extra hour’s delay before the end of the original one hour of POA.
-a mobile worker should not be required to remain at their workstation;
I know that a drivers work station is normally his cab but when compelled to remain in a waiting room etc, would this count as “work station” and thus mean that you can’t use it as POA?
this what is in the directive about POA
2.3 What is a period of availability?
Generally speaking a period of availability (PoA) is waiting time, the duration of which is
known about in advance by the mobile worker. Under the Regulations, these periods have to
meet the following criteria:
- a mobile worker should not be required to remain at his workstation;
- (but) he must be available to answer calls to start work or resume driving on request; and
- the period and the foreseeable duration should be known in advance, by the mobile worker,
either before departure or just before the start of the period in question.
Examples of a PoA include the time when accompanying a vehicle being transported by boat
or train; or time spent waiting at frontiers; or delays due to traffic prohibitions. When driving
as part of a team, when not driving, unless the mobile worker is taking a break or performing
other work (e.g. navigation), a PoA also includes time spent sitting next to the driver while the
vehicle is in motion. Other travelling staff may also count travelling time as a PoA, provided
they are not performing any other work.
Like breaks and rest periods, a PoA can be taken at the workstation. Providing the mobile
worker has a reasonable amount of freedom (e.g. he can relax and read), for a known duration,
this would satisfy the requirements for a PoA. Where the mobile worker knows about a delay
in advance, but it is deemed prudent that the driver should remain in the cab for reasons of
security or safety, this should not in itself, disqualify this delay being recorded as a PoA.
Typical examples might include waiting at a site that is unsafe for pedestrians or staying in a
vehicle carrying high value goods or cash.
Mobile workers do not need to be formally notified about a PoA and its duration in advance.
It is enough that they know about it (and the foreseeable duration), in advance.
A PoA does not apply to delays where the mobile worker has to continue working. For
example, where a driver is diverted due to a road closure, he/she would still be driving.
Normally, delays due to congestion would also count as working time because the driver
would be stopping and starting the vehicle. If a mobile worker is monitoring a discharge from
the vehicle (e.g. petrol at filling station), this time will also count as working time.
There are no requirements as to the minimum and maximum length of a PoA.Examples of a PoA:
- When a mobile worker experiences a delay at a regional distribution centre or depot, waiting
for someone to load or unload their vehicle, if they know about the length of the delay at the
start of the period (because someone has told them; because they have arrived too early for
their slot; or because they always experience a delay at one of their regular customers).- If a mobile worker typically experiences a 1 hour delay at one of their regular customers, then
this would count as a PoA. However, if they were to unexpectedly experience a 2 hour delay,
then the second hour would count as working time. Unless the mobile worker was notified,
before the end of the first hour, that a further hours delay was expected, in which case the
second hour would also count as a PoA.- Where a mobile worker reports for work, is informed that they are not required to undertake
any duties for a specified period (albeit, they need to remain on site to answer calls and be
ready to take up work), but is free to wait in the canteen or rest facility.- If the vehicle breaks down and the mobile worker is told how long it will take to be rescued.
- Unless doing some other work (e.g. navigating), a relief driver who is travelling as a passenger
would count this time as a period of availability. This time (or a part of it) could also be
counted as a break - but would need to be recorded as such.- Traffic prohibitions that would count as a PoA include, for example, where the police have
delayed the movement of an abnormal load for a set period of time, or where vehicles are
banned from city centres during specified hours, and the driver has to park the vehicle and
wait.
del949:
-a mobile worker should not be required to remain at their workstation;
I know that a drivers work station is normally his cab but when compelled to remain in a waiting room etc, would this count as “work station” and thus mean that you can’t use it as POA?
hi mat this what there count as a work station
(c) ‘workstation’ shall mean:
– the location of the main place of business of the undertaking
for which the person performing mobile road
transport activities carries out duties, together with its
various subsidiary places of business, regardless of
whether they are located in the same place as its head
office or main place of business,
– the vehicle which the person performing mobile road
transport activities uses when he carries out duties, and
– any other place in which activities connected with
transportation are carried out;
DieselDemon:
Wheel Nut:
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Actually, JD is quite correct, not only must you be free to do as you please, you have to have been informed exactly how long your period of POA will be.
Or you could ask the Tesco bod, how long am I gonna be? “at least a couple of hours mate”, “I am on my own”, than that is at least 2 hours you know about, if it takes an hour and half, so what?
Wheel Nut:
DieselDemon:
Wheel Nut:
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Actually, JD is quite correct, not only must you be free to do as you please, you have to have been informed exactly how long your period of POA will be.
Or you could ask the Tesco bod, how long am I gonna be? “at least a couple of hours mate”, “I am on my own”, than that is at least 2 hours you know about, if it takes an hour and half, so what?
Wheel Nut I can’t see why it’s not POWT (period of watching the tele).Because when I was waiting for them to load up my trailer on the bank I used to just couple up and then get my 12 volt portable colour tele on until it was ready.I knew how long it would be.Too long.Or should it be booked as break which is what I actually did.
Archie Paice:
Wheel Nut:
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Hullo Wheelnut,
I’ve got a language problem here, or maybe I’m just a bit thick. What the f*** is P.O.A. or R.D.C. ? Drivers are,nt talking English anymore are they ? Is it Price on Application , and Rural District Council or what ? It would be good to know.
Cheers, Archie.
POA is just another modern word for break and RDC just means that no one runs freight to where it’s actually going anymore without transhipping it all loads of times.
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
DieselDemon:
Wheel Nut:
It is whatever you want it to be, depends if you are paid for sitting on your arse for breaks or whether you are paid for sitting on your arse for POA, or even if you are paid while sitting on your arse on other work.The only thing is if you do leave it on other work you will have to have a 15 minute break outside the RDC after sitting on your arse for 6 hours.
You don’t need to be free to do as you like, that only applies to rest periods.
Actually, JD is quite correct, not only must you be free to do as you please, you have to have been informed exactly how long your period of POA will be.
Or you could ask the Tesco bod, how long am I gonna be? “at least a couple of hours mate”, “I am on my own”, than that is at least 2 hours you know about, if it takes an hour and half, so what?
Wheel Nut I can’t see why it’s not POWT (period of watching the tele).Because when I was waiting for them to load up my trailer on the bank I used to just couple up and then get my 12 volt portable colour tele on until it was ready.I knew how long it would be.Too long.Or should it be booked as break which is what I actually did.
Exactly my point, you are not working, you are not driving, its an alternative word for break. You will never get a VOSA man or woman timing how long you actually spent on POA and then asking the Bod, "did you explain to the driver that he would be waiting for 37minutes and 43seconds?
Stick to 561/2006 the rest will normally follow
A POA IS WHERE YOU CAN FUGE YOUR HOURS TO ENABLE YOU TO WORK LONG HOURS WTD DONT MAKE ME LAUGH
I dont really use POA especially if I am knowing my tipping could take 2-7 hours when im on hanging garments. I just stick it on break and leave it there and get my lap top out and then have a sleep 
Love it some days hate it others but I cant see how anyone can argue that im not on a break when im in bed for 5 hours 
tramper37:
can some one please clarify before i have an arcuement with the boss,that sitting at a tesco rdc getting tipped in there waitin room is counted as poa? cheers
it all depends on what nmode your tacho was set at as to whether it is POA or break
shuttlespanker:
tramper37:
can some one please clarify before i have an arcuement with the boss,that sitting at a tesco rdc getting tipped in there waitin room is counted as poa? cheersit all depends on what nmode your tacho was set at as to whether it is POA or break
Good point, if you put your mode switch on break, walk into the office bod with your paperwork and keys then obviously you are on break, if you put it on poa, then it stays on POA till you get your keys back
Because as a decent upstanding driver, no one would have a spare key would they?