Just a question about digi downloading and keeping records for one man bands, I’ve a friend who owns his own unit & trailer and runs a digital tachometer, for the past year or so he has just done a print out at the end of the day and keeping those. Whereas I am under the impression he needs either his own card download facilities or access to someone else’s. Also he thinks owner drivers are exempt from the DCPC. Could anyone clarify either of these ( maybe a credible source to print out like DSA/VOSA etc ) as he’s a stubborn sod and doesn’t believe me. Ta
1). He has to download tachograph info at the same intervals as everybody else.
2). He has to take the DCPC, otherwise I wouldn’t have sat my DCPC last week at a cost of £350 less than six months after spending £1300 getting an Operator’s CPC.
I know that, it’s trying to convince him to do it. He reckons owner drivers are exempt. He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, I doubt his address is on it, he’s proper ■■■■■■ If he gets caught.
Let’s face it Harry…in this day-and-age…truck/owner drivers are just a cash-cow for the authorities.
F*in’ st aint it?
C10HOO:
He reckons owner drivers are exempt. He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, I doubt his address is on it, he’s proper [zb] If he gets caught.
I just don’t know where to start with this! 
Jobs ■■■■■■ eh,
Harry Monk:
C10HOO:
He reckons owner drivers are exempt. They are not!
He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, He needs a company card!
I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. You cant educate pork!
And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, Totally Illegal and bound to end in tears for both parties!
I doubt his address is on it, You may be correct!
he’s proper [zb] If he gets caught. Bubba springs to mind!I just don’t know where to start with this!
Wash your hands with him, before VOSA hang him out to dry 
C10HOO:
Just a question about digi downloading and keeping records for one man bands, I’ve a friend who owns his own unit & trailer and runs a digital tachometer, for the past year or so he has just done a print out at the end of the day and keeping those. Whereas I am under the impression he needs either his own card download facilities or access to someone else’s.
He needs his own company card and download facilities for both the vehicle unit and driver card(s) used in it. He must meet the minimum download intervals for both VU and driver cards, and the storage requirements for the data. The printouts have no legal standing in place of those printouts.
C10HOO:
Also he thinks owner drivers are exempt from the DCPC.
There is no such exemption.
C10HOO:
Could anyone clarify either of these ( maybe a credible source to print out like DSA/VOSA etc ) as he’s a stubborn sod and doesn’t believe me. Ta
The problem with answering this by reference to legislation (the only truly authoritative source) is the old problem of proving a negative. Your friend would have to plough through reams of legislation to convince himself that the legislation does not contain the exemptions he believes it does. Worse still, some of the legislation is not freely available online in a consolidated form, including all the amendments.
If he really wants some light reading, try:
Tachograph rules - Regulation 3821/85 (latest consolidated version at time of posting
Driver CPC - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007 (SI 2007/605) (does not incorporate minor amendments)
Operator Licensing - Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995
C10HOO:
I know that, it’s trying to convince him to do it. He reckons owner drivers are exempt. He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, I doubt his address is on it, he’s proper [zb] If he gets caught.
VOSA and the Traffic Commissioners would look on this as ‘O licence for hire’, which is not allowed. Effectively, your friend has no O licence. The person allowing him to use their O licence (and the designated transport manager on that licence, if that is a different person) also risks enforcement action.
You must park the vehicle at the designated operating centre.
Get your friend over to this thread - where he will see that his operation is almost completely illegal. He may have the correct driving licence, but that is about it.
In effect, he has no O licence, and, by the sounds of it, no operator’s CPC allowing him to apply for his own Standard O licence. This lack of O licence may well reduce any insurance cover he has (if he has even bothered with that) to the Road Traffic Act minimum and could invalidate it completely if he has materially misrepresented his OÂ licence position to the insurer.
He is in breach of all the downloading requirements of the tachograph legislation, which amounts to no tachograph records. Without a company card, he may not even have access to the vehicle unit data, as it may be locked in to someone else.
Even if he has ‘acquired rights’ to LGVÂ Driver CPC at present, he will be in breach of the Driver CPC regulations on 10 September 2014 unless he takes 35 hours of periodic training by that date and carries his Driver Qualification Card when driving an LGV commercially.
Seeing as he thinks owner drivers are exempt from all the legislation surrounding goods vehicles, is he bothering to pay the correct Vehicle Excise Duty, or has he wrongly convinced himself that owner drivers only need to pay the much cheaper Private HGV rate? Private HGV only covers truly private operation of the vehicle, not anything that requires an O licence.
Is the vehicle and any trailers correctly plated, with in date MoT tests?
Basically, your friend’s operation is taking the rise. Because he hasn’t bothered to put in the time and effort to get the legally required training, licensing and tachograph facilities, he has a significant commercial advantage over those owner drivers who operate legally (such as Harry Monk, who has just put in a significant amount of time, effort and money to get his own O licence, complete his Driver CPC and presumably sort out his digital tachograph facilities now that he’s bought a unit).
If stopped by the police or VOSA, you friend risks prosecution for a wide range of O licence and tachograph offences, whilst the person lending/hiring him an OÂ licence disc risks losing that OÂ licence at minimum.
The whole point of O licensing is that the operation of goods vehicles for hire or reward is (supposedly) under a qualified transport manager who knows the legal requirements.
As a matter of urgency, your friend needs to go off the road and either shut down or bring himself into compliance with the operator licensing and tachograph laws. He also needs to ensure he has the correct insurance cover. In truth, the time and money it will take to sort this out means the only realistic option is to shut down.
C10HOO:
has just done a print out at the end of the day and keeping those. Whereas I am under the impression he needs either his own card download facilities or access to someone else’s.
You are right, he needs to download his driver card at least every 28 days and the tacho head at least every 56 days, just like everyone else.
C10HOO:
Also he thinks owner drivers are exempt from the DCPC.
Again you are right, he has to do the DCPC just like everyone else.
Paul
C10HOO:
He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, I doubt his address is on it, he’s proper [zb] If he gets caught.
Again you’re right, this bloke sounds like a complete cowboy and the sooner he is caught and taken off the road the better…
Paul
djw:
Basically, your friend’s operation is taking the rise. Because he hasn’t bothered to put in the time and effort to get the legally required training, licensing and tachograph facilities, he has a significant commercial advantage over those owner drivers who operate legally (such as Harry Monk, who has just put in a significant amount of time, effort and money to get his own O licence, complete his Driver CPC and presumably sort out his digital tachograph facilities now that he’s bought a unit).If stopped by the police or VOSA, you friend risks prosecution for a wide range of O licence and tachograph offences, whilst the person lending/hiring him an OÂ licence disc risks losing that OÂ licence at minimum.
The whole point of O licensing is that the operation of goods vehicles for hire or reward is (supposedly) under a qualified transport manager who knows the legal requirements.
As a matter of urgency, your friend needs to go off the road and either shut down or bring himself into compliance with the operator licensing and tachograph laws. He also needs to ensure he has the correct insurance cover. In truth, the time and money it will take to sort this out means the only realistic option is to shut down.
That pretty much sums it up and far better than I did…
Paul
repton:
C10HOO:
He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, I doubt his address is on it, he’s proper [zb] If he gets caught.Again you’re right, this bloke sounds like a complete cowboy and the sooner he is caught and taken off the road the better…
Paul
why?
he might be a very safe driver, he may well spend his money keeping his truck in tip top condition.
just because he dosn’t know all the rules, and regs, and dosn’t spend his money on stealth taxes, dosn’t make him a menace to other road users, and the haulage industry. it just makes him human.
Having no idea about rules and regs is one thing. Using someone else’s o licence is a different ball game. He’s probably not paying his vat or corporation tax either. He needs taking off the road as he’s running at an advantage over compliant operators. I reckon he won’t be getting inspections done either. I don’t really want a ■■■■■■ like that sharing a motorway with my wife and kids. You can be the safest driver in the world, but if a wheels gonna fall off you ain’t gonna stop it
djw:
Because he hasn’t bothered to put in the time and effort to get the legally required training, licensing and tachograph facilities, he has a significant commercial advantage over those owner drivers who operate legally (such as Harry Monk, who has just put in a significant amount of time, effort and money to get his own O licence, complete his Driver CPC and presumably sort out his digital tachograph facilities now that he’s bought a unit).
No, I’m on the case with that at the moment, I’ve applied for the Operators card pack and will be sorting out the hardware this week. Any recommendations?
Harry Monk:
djw:
Because he hasn’t bothered to put in the time and effort to get the legally required training, licensing and tachograph facilities, he has a significant commercial advantage over those owner drivers who operate legally (such as Harry Monk, who has just put in a significant amount of time, effort and money to get his own O licence, complete his Driver CPC and presumably sort out his digital tachograph facilities now that he’s bought a unit).No, I’m on the case with that at the moment, I’ve applied for the Operators card pack and will be sorting out the hardware this week. Any recommendations?
A recent discussion on downloading requirements, hardware and software can be found here, which links to various people’s recommendations.
The key thing to check is what the ongoing costs are. Some of the more sophisticated software and online backup facilities has a monthly cost. However, there are perfectly good products on the market that are a one-off cost.
All the best in sorting this out - you’re nearly there.
Thanks- my operator’s card application pack has just arrived in the last 30 minutes so I’ll get that filled in.
I’ve had a look at the other thread but will look it over in more depth later. Shuttlespanker suggested this,
ebay.co.uk/itm/DIGIDOWN-PLUS … 907wt_1344
But I’ve also found this, which is a bit cheaper, is this enough?
limeyphil:
repton:
C10HOO:
He also hasn’t got an operators card and parks his trailer in one yard and takes the unit home, I’ve tried to tell him that you can only park it up where the O licence states. And as he’s using another one man bands O licence, I doubt his address is on it, he’s proper [zb] If he gets caught.Again you’re right, this bloke sounds like a complete cowboy and the sooner he is caught and taken off the road the better…
Paul
why?
he might be a very safe driver, he may well spend his money keeping his truck in tip top condition.
just because he dosn’t know all the rules, and regs, and dosn’t spend his money on stealth taxes, dosn’t make him a menace to other road users, and the haulage industry. it just makes him human.
The guy is a cowboy or he’s thick as ■■■■. Hey, he’s just human…Thanks, made me laugh. Monkey with a steering wheel springs to mind.
Harry Monk:
Shuttlespanker suggested this,
That’s the Digidown Plus downloader (which downloads Vehicle Units and Driver Cards inserted into the Digidown Plus) together with some software that you need to download, analyse and back up the data you’ve got in the Digidown Plus.
There’s loads of information about the Digidown Plus on the manufacturer’s web site, including the manual and some videos.
You need to download the Vehicle Unit at least every 56 days. For that, you insert the Company Card into one of the slots, connect the downloader to the tachograph’s connector and press the ‘All VU’ button. On the Digidown Plus, if you’ve previously downloaded that VU, there’s a ‘Latest VU’ button that does a much quicker partial download.
You need to download your Driver Card at least every 28 days. The Digidown Plus makes that really easy and quick as you insert the card into the side of the device and press the ‘Card’ button.
You then need to connect the Digidown Plus to your computer using a USB cable, and use your tachograph software (such as the TachoMagic software in the eBay bundle shuttlespanker recommended) to download the data off the Digidown Plus, analyse it and make some backups to ensure the data will not be lost.
Harry Monk:
But I’ve also found this, which is a bit cheaper, is this enough?
That’s the plain Digidown, which lacks the card slot. This forces you to download your Driver Card via a tachograph, or use a separate card reader. On balance, the slightly more expensive Digidown Plus is a better buy - it’s much easier to stick your Driver Card in the side of the device and push a button every couple of weeks.
You would need separate software at extra cost if you just bought a Digidown Plus rather than a software and hardware bundle. The exentra site offers Solo Plus - there’s a trial version that you can download and play with.
I often wonder when someone posts on here concerned about “a friend”
There have been several over the years in a similar light 
Maybe the friend who hasn’t a clue about Operator licensing has the same blasé attitude to invoicing too!
Harry Monk:
ebay.co.uk/itm/DIGIDOWN-PLUS … 907wt_1344
We have the Digidown plus - seems fine. The driver card download is very fast, the full vehicle download is pretty slow, though I suspect that’s the same for all downloading kit. Never tried downloading a driver card via the VU. I like the fact that you don’t need to take a PC/laptop anywhere near either the drivers or the vehicles, and that you can download people’s cards away from both PCs and vehicles.
We also have Solo Plus, which will show you all the data, but doesn’t (at least, the cheap version which we have) do any infringement analysis - you’d have to wade through the times yourself.
A connected business is playing around with online analysis at the moment - anyone who has driver card files they’d like to see (partly) analysed for infringements is welcome to try it at www.tachotime.co.uk . (This isn’t an advert - there’s nothing being sold there!)