At present, an agency driver might be paid minimum wage plus a load of allowances - like Stobarts.
To benefit from any “improved holiday pay” therefore, the headline hourly rate as printed on wage slips would have to increase dramatically, and the gross pay must NOT be made up of a load of “tax free” allowances which also end up being “holiday free” (hence why it’s popular with the agency as employer)
Eg. Earn 5-day-tramp £600 gross made up from 50 hours @ £7.20ph (£360) 5x£28 night out money (£140) £10 a day in meal allowances (£50) plus £10 a day fuel expenses (£50) might mean only £360 of your wage is assessable for tax purposes - BUT only £360 of your wage is assessable for holiday purposes as well…
Wouldn’t we all like to be actually salaried on £600pw so we get paid that on holiday as well, and don’t find ourselves working more than the “national salaried average” of 39.5 hour weeks for that money?
Radar19:
How is this going to affect agency drivers?
Agency drivers on PAYE will have their holiday pay increased (assuming that they do overtime), but any sole trader/Ltd co drivers it will not make one iota of difference as they self fund their holidays anyway.
If you can have it backdated does that mean you can claim from previous employers or just your present employer■■?
I would take great pleasure in taking a previous employer for a few quid…
Also I bet the stobart barristers are working on this as we speak and will wriggle out of paying back pay.
Radar19:
How is this going to affect agency drivers?
Agency drivers on PAYE will have their holiday pay increased (assuming that they do overtime), but any sole trader/Ltd co drivers it will not make one iota of difference as they self fund their holidays anyway.
How much holiday pay does an agency using zero hours contracts pay?
Surely only agency drivers on defined hours contracts will qualify?
Are there any agencies left who actually pay out “overtime on duty more than 8 hours in a shift”…?
The big trick done by yards to such agencies was to habitually send you home at the 9hours mark on such an agency contract, so you don’t ever get the overtime rate AND you’ve worked your “happy hour”… get it?
I joined an agency in Ashford 3 years back who promised me “overtime after 8 hours on ALL assignments via this agency” - only for me to get bugger all, because the only work I got offered was flat 6 hour shifts at Waitrose (Aylesford) and 9 hours at Lenham Storage. I held out for “something in the 12-15 hour range like is widely available in this county” - only to get nothing - ever. Imagine that. Mr Flexible put his hand up for even the dross work, but still got none - because it would have been a lucrative cushy number on the terms of that particular agency’s contract!
If it’s £9ph night rate for the first 8 hours, then time and a half after that, less an hour docked for meal break - you really need that 3pm-6am shift to give you those 6 hours @ £13.50ph to push the pay for the whole shift upto a reasonably decent £153 per midweek shift. Fed up with the shenannigans of yards deliberately minimising hours with the agencies that pay an “overtime rate”, I now prefer those that pay a better rate on a “right through” basis, so I know where I stand at all times. No complicated working out of the “differing rates according to what time you finish” ■■■■■■■■ any longer.
I heard an advert on the radio last week relating to this, a company was claiming to beable to claim for backdated holiday pay owed from the additional hours worked. Cant remember what the company was called though
yorkshire terrier:
If you can have it backdated does that mean you can claim from previous employers or just your present employer■■?
I would take great pleasure in taking a previous employer for a few quid…
Also I bet the stobart barristers are working on this as we speak and will wriggle out of paying back pay.
sixteen years and stobrats barristers haven’t a leg to stand on! I started the ball rolling three/ four years ago! Thank you then I got the union involved and then barristers in LONDON WTD AND MOBILE WORKERS STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!
All these companies pleading ignorance! ACAS has been warning them for years about their holiday pay contracts!
I know of one company in the haulage game who has paid out to some drivers who were in a union 2 years ago!
And this company set aside £7 million in anticipation of a flood of claims!
My claim will go in when its been made crystal clear by the European court! I worked there for 4 and a half years,mostly max hours as a tramper!
Couldn’t happen to a better company!
I was just discussing this on one of my bike forums. To save me typing it out again, here’s what I wrote there;
" My first thought when reading this was of a previous employer, who paid me at the rate of £60 per day worked but only £40 per day holiday pay; this was over ten years ago by the way. I worked for them for about 18 months so I thought to myself, "maybe a couple of hundred quid there for you ". Then I thought again. I remembered all the days he’d paid me that £60 for the full day although the only work I’d done was to drive my wagon about thirty miles back to the yard, fuelled up and gone home; the times he let me go quite a few miles out of my way to pick up a bike, or bits for one; or the time he let me pick up the club products from Derby to take back to my place, again involving going out of my way on his diesel and time. i left their employment on good terms, always worthwhile because you never know when you might want or need to work for them again. Sometimes you have to remember not to bite the hand that feeds you."
This proposal has turned up out of the blue just at the time when a definite shortage of decent drivers has left us looking at the chance of real pay rises just for once. If this kicks off it will be just the perfect excuse the industry needs to kick those pay rises into the long grass. Whilst I am sure there are some who feel they’ve been genuinely ripped off with their holiday pay, my view is the only people who’ll ever make decent money out of this will be the solicitors. Far as I’m concerned the past is past.
ACAS have said for many years that holiday pay is worked out as an average of hours worked per week over the previous 12 weeks before the holiday is taken!
European directive I believe!
be careful before you all go out and put a deposit on that world cruise, claims are only to be backdated by 3 months and it’s only for compulsory overtime, not voluntary.
And it might go to appeal, but then again as they’ve limited the appeals to 3 months, maybe the companies might decide it might be risky as they might go back to 16 years for backdating claims.
dessy:
ACAS have said for many years that holiday pay is worked out as an average of hours worked per week over the previous 12 weeks before the holiday is taken!
European directive I believe!
Dumb system for the workforce that - Because anyone taking more than exactly ONE weeks holiday EXACTLY every 13th week will find their average “dropped down a bit” by the counting of another holiday in the rolling figures. Those who get more than 4 weeks per year therefore, lose out mos - you try and take 5 or 6 weeks holiday per year without some “collisions” over a rolling 13 week period.
See how many employers successfully implement schemes that benefit the NEWBIE over the SENIOR…
It might work for a firm on “new financial sector customers” but I can’t see it working pretty much anywhere in industry, because the “old hands” get penalised the most from such a system.
yorkshire terrier:
If you can have it backdated does that mean you can claim from previous employers or just your present employer■■?
I would take great pleasure in taking a previous employer for a few quid…
Also I bet the stobart barristers are working on this as we speak and will wriggle out of paying back pay.
sixteen years and stobrats barristers haven’t a leg to stand on! I started the ball rolling three/ four years ago! Thank you then I got the union involved and then barristers in LONDON WTD AND MOBILE WORKERS STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!
Do you still work there?? My last two employers paid flat rate holiday pay so I’m just wondering if I could claim back pay even though iv left ■■
dessy:
ACAS have said for many years that holiday pay is worked out as an average of hours worked per week over the previous 12 weeks before the holiday is taken!
European directive I believe!
Dumb system for the workforce that - Because anyone taking more than exactly ONE weeks holiday EXACTLY every 13th week will find their average “dropped down a bit” by the counting of another holiday in the rolling figures. Those who get more than 4 weeks per year therefore, lose out mos - you try and take 5 or 6 weeks holiday per year without some “collisions” over a rolling 13 week period.
See how many employers successfully implement schemes that benefit the NEWBIE over the SENIOR…
It might work for a firm on “new financial sector customers” but I can’t see it working pretty much anywhere in industry, because the “old hands” get penalised the most from such a system.
I would love to see a transport concern give any driver 5 weeks holiday back to back! I couldn’t get more than a week at the company I refer to in this thread!
The holiday entitlement is 28 days a year including bank holiday days.
Only ever had 5 working days each time! They also failed to realise that up to 5.6 days can be transferred from one holiday year to the following year!
dessy:
ACAS have said for many years that holiday pay is worked out as an average of hours worked per week over the previous 12 weeks before the holiday is taken!
European directive I believe!
yes dessy, when you were at AVELEY in your green uniform! £24,000,000 to be precise as you say pal, couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of COWBOYS
be careful before you all go out and put a deposit on that world cruise, claims are only to be backdated by 3 months and it’s only for compulsory overtime, not voluntary.
And it might go to appeal, but then again as they’ve limited the appeals to 3 months, maybe the companies might decide it might be risky as they might go back to 16 years for backdating claims.
Is working max shift hours i.e 3x15 and 3x13hrs not compulsory in most transport driving jobs?
They only paid 9hrs per day when on holiday but expected max shifts or refuse a reasonable request?
They also tried to rob 3 holiday days as cover wasn’t available till I emailed the HR director links to EU directives regarding holiday transfers!
be careful before you all go out and put a deposit on that world cruise, claims are only to be backdated by 3 months and it’s only for compulsory overtime, not voluntary.
And it might go to appeal, but then again as they’ve limited the appeals to 3 months, maybe the companies might decide it might be risky as they might go back to 16 years for backdating claims.
Is working max shift hours i.e 3x15 and 3x13hrs not compulsory in most transport driving jobs?
They only paid 9hrs per day when on holiday but expected max shifts or refuse a reasonable request?
They also tried to rob 3 holiday days as cover wasn’t available till I emailed the HR director links to EU directives regarding holiday transfers!
I think that most overtime done by truck drivers should be considered as compulsary, but I really suppose it depends on the terms and conditions of employment.
I really just wanted to make the point that there is some small print to this ruling.
and stobrats barristers haven’t a leg to stand on! 
I started the ball rolling three/ four years ago! Thank you 
then I got the union involved and then barristers in LONDON 
WTD AND MOBILE WORKERS STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS! 
