Yesterday, I drove for 4.5 hours, had a 45 min break and got loaded. Then I drove for another 4.5 hours but got caught in horrendous traffic which caused me considerable delay. As a result, I stopped for another 45 min break giving me an hour to return to the yard (using up the 10th hour which I’m able to do). Problem is I ran over by 10 mins.
What happens in this situation? Is it acceptable to run over slightly given the earlier delay and if so do I need to note that on the back of the chart or is 10 mins within an acceptable tolerance
On a similar theme, the tachograph wasn’t recording for about the first 45 mins. Probably as a result of me not inserting correctly as when the warning got my attention I fixed it. Presumably I should manually record this period on the reverse
ROG:
As the delay was on the return journey and was unforeseeable then you will be fine.
Not really. The fact he was able to take a second 45 and then continue driving shows that he likely exceeded his time after getting free from the traffic delays and that would be after the unforeseen event. He should have stopped driving before exceeding the 10 hours. It would only ‘be fine’ if he ran over by ten minutes while stuck in the traffic or getting to the first available parking place after the hold up.
On a similar theme, the tachograph wasn’t recording for about the first 45 mins. Probably as a result of me not inserting correctly as when the warning got my attention I fixed it. Presumably I should manually record this period on the reverse
Are you saying then that I should have pulled up 10 minutes from base and stayed with the truck for 11 hours (daily rest)? What would be the official line on this?
Bear in mind that the return journey under normal circumstances would have been 3 - 4.5 hrs tops but for the unusual delay which foced me into a 45 min break before using the 10th hour.
Coffeeholic:
The fact he was able to take a second 45 and then continue driving shows that he likely exceeded his time after getting free from the traffic delays and that would be after the unforeseen event. He should have stopped driving before exceeding the 10 hours. It would only ‘be fine’ if he ran over by ten minutes while stuck in the traffic or getting to the first available parking place after the hold up.
MAT:
Are you saying then that I should have pulled up 10 minutes from base and stayed with the truck for 11 hours (daily rest)? What would be the official line on this?
I see the point made by coffeeholic and to answer your question - if still got working hours left then stopping and getting another driver out to you from base in a car in order to do a vehicle swap would be the correct course of action - the car driving would be ‘other work’
MAT:
Are you saying then that I should have pulled up 10 minutes from base and stayed with the truck for 11 hours (daily rest)? What would be the official line on this?
Yes, daft as it seems that is what you should have done and that would indeed be the official line. If you still had working time available they could have sent a driver to drive the remaining 10 minutes while you rode in the passenger seat. If you didn’t have any working time available you would have had to take a rest period at that point. You have committed an offence on this occasion and anything you write on the back of the chart by way of explanation won’t change that.
At 11.45pm getting a replacement driver wasn’t an option, in addition, looking for a suitable place to park up in an unsecure layby 10 minutes from base may well have caused an over run anyway. Surely common sense prevails in this situation or do the authorities not take that view. I’m new to this game so trying to get a feel for what constitutes common sense, it’s not my intention to break the rules.
Having said that, I’ve just read VOSA’s rules on driver’s hours and tachographs - “Unforseen Events” and quote “Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, and to enable a driver to reach a suitable stopping place, a departure from the EU rules may be permitted to the extent necessary to ensure the safetyof persons, the vehicle or its load”
My interpretation of the above would be that my over run of 10 minutes to get a loaded truck into a secure yard would fall within these guidelines. Would you agree
MAT:
At 11.45pm getting a replacement driver wasn’t an option, in addition, looking for a suitable place to park up in an unsecure layby 10 minutes from base may well have caused an over run anyway. Surely common sense prevails in this situation or do the authorities not take that view. I’m new to this game so trying to get a feel for what constitutes common sense, it’s not my intention to break the rules.
Having said that, I’ve just read VOSA’s rules on driver’s hours and tachographs - “Unforseen Events” and quote “Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, and to enable a driver to reach a suitable stopping place, a departure from the EU rules may be permitted to the extent necessary to ensure the safetyof persons, the vehicle or its load”
My interpretation of the above would be that my over run of 10 minutes to get a loaded truck into a secure yard would fall within these guidelines. Would you agree
i would say yes but if you passed some safe parking on your way to the yard that would count as well
MAT:
At 11.45pm getting a replacement driver wasn’t an option, in addition, looking for a suitable place to park up in an unsecure layby 10 minutes from base may well have caused an over run anyway. Surely common sense prevails in this situation or do the authorities not take that view. I’m new to this game so trying to get a feel for what constitutes common sense, it’s not my intention to break the rules.
You would hope so but there is no guarantee.
MAT:
Having said that, I’ve just read VOSA’s rules on driver’s hours and tachographs - “Unforseen Events” and quote “Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, and to enable a driver to reach a suitable stopping place, a departure from the EU rules may be permitted to the extent necessary to ensure the safetyof persons, the vehicle or its load”
My interpretation of the above would be that my over run of 10 minutes to get a loaded truck into a secure yard would fall within these guidelines. Would you agree
No, that allows you to deviate from the rules immediately after the unforeseen event. It does not allow you to deviate from them at the end of your shift because of a delay encountered earlier in the day.
Just for your information, as you say you are new and learning the regulations, an unforeseen event would be an accident or something like that. Getting stuck in long term roadworks where there are delays every day or on the Western section of the M25 on a Friday evening where delays are very much the norm would not count as unforeseen.
Coffeeholic:
an unforeseen event would be an accident or something like that. Getting stuck in long term roadworks where there are delays every day or on the Western section of the M25 on a Friday evening where delays are very much the norm would not count as unforeseen.
did not no that mate you learn something new
so for instance the m1 road work from 6a to 10 a few years back that would not be classed as unforeseen unless there was an accident
Coffeeholic:
an unforeseen event would be an accident or something like that. Getting stuck in long term roadworks where there are delays every day or on the Western section of the M25 on a Friday evening where delays are very much the norm would not count as unforeseen.
did not no that mate you learn something new
so for instance the m1 road work from 6a to 10 a few years back that would not be classed as unforeseen unless there was an accident
Exactly Del. You’re hot today.
Err, I mean hot as in on the ball, not in some kind of coming onto you in a gay way.
You have committed an offence on this occasion and anything you write on the back of the chart by way of explanation won’t change that.
Assuming that your interpretation of the regulations is correct and mine is wrong (I’m the newbe after all). Are you saying that I have committed an offence that I will be penalised for i.e points, fine
In this particular instance I would say that although I was returning from the London area and traffic is always going to bad, my delay was caused extraordinary circumstances that furthered that delay and as such were unforseen.
Sorry to labour this point but I want to be absolutley certain where I stand in interpretating the rules.
You have committed an offence on this occasion and anything you write on the back of the chart by way of explanation won’t change that.
Assuming that your interpretation of the regulations is correct and mine is wrong (I’m the newbe after all). Are you saying that I have committed an offence that I will be penalised for i.e points, fine
In this particular instance I would say that although I was returning from the London area and traffic is always going to bad, my delay was caused extraordinary circumstances that furthered that delay and as such were unforseen.
Sorry to labour this point but I want to be absolutley certain where I stand in interpretating the rules.
IMO if you where stopped by Vosa you as a new driver may get a verbal warning but next time who knows
You have committed an offence on this occasion and anything you write on the back of the chart by way of explanation won’t change that.
Assuming that your interpretation of the regulations is correct and mine is wrong (I’m the newbe after all). Are you saying that I have committed an offence that I will be penalised for i.e points, fine
It’s possible but that would depend on the particular enforcement officer.
MAT:
In this particular instance I would say that although I was returning from the London area and traffic is always going to bad, my delay was caused extraordinary circumstances that furthered that delay and as such were unforseen.
Yes but when you exceed the driving limit for the day it was after the event and you had already found one place to park to take your second 45. The unforeseen thing allows you to deviate from the regulations as far as the first available parking place. You cant say I was delayed X amount of hours ago so I will ignore the daily driving limit at the end of the shift because of that.
It’s possible but that would depend on the particular enforcement officer.
Do you mean in a road side spot check? Or are you saying that this tacho may come back to haunt me in the future.
Both. Roadside check in the next few weeks or check of the operators records in the next 6 months or so.
Don’t worry about it too much though, what’s done is done. I wasn’t intending to worry you, only trying to help you avoid the same mistake in the future.
