see whats stopping you getting your other half or somebody coming to pick you up and then you drive yourself home but leave the truck there?
if im only 5 or ten mins from my base and its the only time its happened and isnt a regular thing im gonna get to my car and get home for the night
ill never spend a night out in a truck if im close to the base, ill get home somehow i just dont get it how if you get picked up by your work in a company vehilce or get a taxi back to your own house is classed as other work? if thats the case then driving yourself to and from work is classed as other work aswell?
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. He then makes his way home to Luton by whatever means, hitching, walking, being picked up etc. In the morning he returns to Northampton and his vehicle, again by what ever means he chooses, and resumes work. From the time he parked until he returns the next morning he was on a daily rest period and was therefore free to dispose of his time as he wanted. He wanted to go home so he did
That scenario is legal.
What if the truck had been recovered by the company during that time (spare keys) and the driver was informed - lets say by a text - that the truck was now back at the yard
Well in that case the company are at fault for not knowing the regulations and have just landed the driver in the crap. The time the driver took to get from Northampton to Luton will now have to be counted as other work and the driver is no longer able to fit the required daily rest period into the 24-hour period. The only way out of that which complies with the regulations would be to return the vehicle to where it was retrieved from and the driver returns there to resume work in the morning. In that scenario I would suggest the driver writes an explanation of how he tried to comply with the regulations but the actions of his company meant he could not do so and forward that to VOSA before he has any kind of official check of his records. That way the fallout might just miss him and land all over the company.
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. He then makes his way home to Luton by whatever means, hitching, walking, being picked up etc. In the morning he returns to Northampton and his vehicle, again by what ever means he chooses, and resumes work. From the time he parked until he returns the next morning he was on a daily rest period and was therefore free to dispose of his time as he wanted. He wanted to go home so he did
That scenario is legal.
Can the driver also make for the yard and pick up own car
Obviously. As long as he is resuming work where he started his daily rest period, which means all the time between finishing and resuming work is rest, he can do what the hell he likes.
gogzy:
see whats stopping you getting your other half or somebody coming to pick you up and then you drive yourself home but leave the truck there?
Nothing, as long as you return to the same place you left the vehicle to resume work
gogzy:
if im only 5 or ten mins from my base and its the only time its happened and isnt a regular thing im gonna get to my car and get home for the night
Me too
gogzy:
i just dont get it how if you get picked up by your work in a company vehilce or get a taxi back to your own house is classed as other work? if thats the case then driving yourself to and from work is classed as other work aswell?
Nobody said it had to make sense but those are the regulations. People in this thread are acting as if this is a bad thing. It is a very good thing as it stops the employer from reducing a drivers rest period below the legal minimum.
I was going to suggest that you read the Skills case, but as many are finding it difficult to understand the rules as written here in quite simple language, the Skills case was a very long complicated case as reported in the trade press.
Simply, it is easily put right if the company you work for apply for more licences and operating centres and all that that entails.
Someone mentioned the Stobart DSS van, these are classed as the drivers own vehicle in law, they cannot be driven by another driver to get a truck back to the depot.
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. He then makes his way home to Luton by whatever means, hitching, walking, being picked up etc. In the morning he returns to Northampton and his vehicle, again by what ever means he chooses, and resumes work. From the time he parked until he returns the next morning he was on a daily rest period and was therefore free to dispose of his time as he wanted. He wanted to go home so he did
That scenario is legal.
What if the truck had been recovered by the company during that time (spare keys) and the driver was informed - lets say by a text - that the truck was now back at the yard
Well in that case the company are at fault for not knowing the regulations and have just landed the driver in the crap. The time the driver took to get from Northampton to Luton will now have to be counted as other work and the driver is no longer able to fit the required daily rest period into the 24-hour period. The only way out of that which complies with the regulations would be to return the vehicle to where it was retrieved from and the driver returns there to resume work in the morning. In that scenario I would suggest the driver writes an explanation of how he tried to comply with the regulations but the actions of his company meant he could not do so and forward that to VOSA before he has any kind of official check of his records. That way the fallout might just miss him and land all over the company.
AH - that is the bit that I did not know - that a company is not allowed to move the vehicle to a different location and keep it there by means of another driver when the original driver has removed the tacho - I’m assuming that the tacho does not need to be kept inserted if on a daily rest.
I understand what you’re saying about disposing of your time as you like whilst on rest and that includes going home as long as it’s your choice and during the travelling time you’re not at the disposal of your employer or carrying out your duties as an employee.
But why would you necessarily have to return to the vehicle for the travelling time to count as daily rest ?
For instance if I agreed with my boss that he would pick up the vehicle and I would make my own way home in my own time, and get back to the depot in the morning in my own time even though that wasn’t where I left the vehicle, would that be legal ?
After all if it’s my choice to leave the vehicle and return home then go back to base and resume work after having the required daily rest, wouldn’t I be meeting all the requirements for daily rest, ie freely disposing of my time.
I’ve just gone quickly through the regulations but can’t find anything about having to start and finish a daily rest in the same place.
Working time definition.
Article 3
Definitions
For the purposes of this Directive:
(a) ‘working time’ shall mean:
in the case of mobile workers: the time from the begin-
ning to the end of work, during which the mobile
worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the
employer and exercising his functions or activities
Driver runs out of time 30 minutes from home and should take a minimum 24 hour rest.
The rest period is when the driver is free to dispose of his/her time.
Well i would dispose of my time by.
Driving my lorry home.
Driver runs out of time 30 minutes from home and should take a minimum 24 hour rest.
The rest period is when the driver is free to dispose of his/her time.
Well i would dispose of my time by.
Driving my lorry home.
like i said my lorry is not a prison.
If the truck is over 7.5 tonnes then a tacho MUST be used so that would not work legally.
Driver runs out of time 30 minutes from home and should take a minimum 24 hour rest.
The rest period is when the driver is free to dispose of his/her time.
Well i would dispose of my time by.
Driving my lorry home.
Driver runs out of time 30 minutes from home and should take a minimum 24 hour rest.
The rest period is when the driver is free to dispose of his/her time.
Well i would dispose of my time by.
Driving my lorry home.
like i said my lorry is not a prison.
If the truck is over 7.5 tonnes then a tacho MUST be used so that would not work legally.
tachograph:
But why would you necessarily have to return to the vehicle for the travelling time to count as daily rest ?
Because it is dependant on when that daily rest starts, if you have used all of the 15 hours available then you are on daily rest immediately. However as the regulations say, and you quoted in your first post on this thread where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break.
So you complete 15 hours and go on rest, at which point you are free to dispose of your time, and resume work 9 hours later at the same place then everyone of those 9 hours is rest. If you travel home and then do not return to the vehicle in that place then your rest would not begin until you arrived home, the time spent travelling home cannot be counted as rest because you will be starting at a different location the next day and the travelling time then has to be taken into account. That travelling time then takes you over 15 hours duty time meaning it is impossible to take the minimum required 9 hours daily rest period.
tachograph:
For instance if I agreed with my boss that he would pick up the vehicle and I would make my own way home in my own time, and get back to the depot in the morning in my own time even though that wasn’t where I left the vehicle, would that be legal ?
After all if it’s my choice to leave the vehicle and return home then go back to base and resume work after having the required daily rest, wouldn’t I be meeting all the requirements for daily rest, ie freely disposing of my time.
Daft as it seems no it wouldn’t. This isn’t a grey area, the Skills Coaches case answers this conundrum.
tachograph:
I’ve just gone quickly through the regulations but can’t find anything about having to start and finish a daily rest in the same place.
You already found it because you quoted the relevant bit in your first post on this thread: Article 9 - REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
tachograph:
Does anyone have a link to this “Skills Case” that’s been mentioned, or more information on it, I’ve Googled but can’t find any mention of it
tachograph:
Does anyone have a link to this “Skills Case” that’s been mentioned, or more information on it, I’ve Googled but can’t find any mention of it
Coffeeholic:
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:58 pm ~snip~
Thanks for that
I knew it had to be illegal but couldn’t put my finger on the exact reasoning, I see now it’s down to travelling to or from the location where you have or take charge of the vehicle as in article 9.
Thanks for the link ROG
This has been an interesting thread, and for me at least cleared up what I saw as contradicting areas in the regulations.
