time spent travelling to or from that location TO TAKE CHARGE OF THE VEHICLE may not be counted as rest. Going home you are not taking charge of the vehicle. The book says it as people keep quoting
Park up, stick your night heater on and go to sleep.
It really is no big deal.
tachograph:
As far as the Driver CPC is concerned, It’s not a bad thing it’s just the way it’s being implemented that makes no sense imo
Whatever way you want to put it, its all an exellent example of how the rules we work under are a convoluted arse !! Short of being an internet geek (like us !) or a solicitor what chance does a guy have of knowing this crap? I’m not having a go at the OP buit why does a guy working in the job not know a basic like how long he can work or what he can do? If anyones in court for an offence i suggest they print out the Tachograph and WTD forum and its questions. Then ask the magistrate if he can decide without his clerk of justice, if he can’t, then ask him how are you supposed to know without one !!
Anyway, Nightowl the answer to your question (sorry Tachograph, wasn’t having a go at you ) is that it is correct what you have been told.
As for who is responsible for changes and tacho law, it gets complicated like most of UK law. Your employer is responsible for your working time, but also it up to you to know all the legislation. Its all care fully worded that you will be to blame for not understanding a regulation, you can be sure of that.
scotslad:
time spent travelling to or from that location TO TAKE CHARGE OF THE VEHICLE may not be counted as rest. Going home you are not taking charge of the vehicle. The book says it as people keep quoting
Even if you weren’t going to collect the vehicle after the daily rest it could still not be counted legally as rest or break, though I would agree that the wording in the VOSA booklet could be misconstrued.
If you read the Drivers hours and tachograph rules booklet inside the front cover you’ll find that it’s a guide and not to be taken as law.
As you probably already know the EU regulations that govern what member states of the EU should implement is REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
Article 9 - REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006:
Article 9
Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls
outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle
which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at
the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre
where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.
s2rich:
how do stobarts get away with it then the job that was talked about on here not long ago when they give you a company van to travel to depots all over the midlands , notts etc . Are they still doing this ■■?
My understanding is that they don’t “give you a company van”. You are employed by an Agency which operates under the ‘umbrella’ of the Stobart group, and the ‘employee’ leases the van, albeit at something like a ‘peppercorn rent’.
Hence, arguably, they ‘commute’ in their own time and in their ‘own’(?) vehicle.
scotslad:
Exactly… Travelling between home and a location that is not your employer o/c. Not between a location and home. When you finish your shift you are free to do whatever you want with that time
Read the quote Simon posted. It says TO or FROM. The rule applies in both directions.
Paul
nick2008:
If the company sends a man and van out to you and the boss says you can take the van home its therefore at your disposal. If he wants you to to drive it back to the yard thats a no no
The van is at your disposal yes but it DOES STILL COUNT AS OTHER WORK as far as the regulations are concerned wherever you are driving it.
I’m starting to wonder if people on this thread have actually read it! Read the quote of the regulations by Simon near the top of the thread where this is clearly explained. That is the law. What your mate told you isn’t. What your boss says isn’t. What the regulations say IS.
Paul
Night Owl:
We were told today that if we go upto our 15 hours that we can no longer be picked up/get a taxi or any other form of getting home so you have to night out!!!
is this right?also if there are any changes in laws who should inform the drivers ie TM or is it the drivers responsability to keep up todate??
cheers
Si
Night Owl - I blame you for all this 
It seems your second question is not getting much attention though 
Although the tacho rules are quite clear on this matter.
They can’t stop you from going home, weather it is by foot, taxi, hgv, car or whatever means are at your disposal.
The European convension on human rights would see to that.
If i decide to go home, no matter what my tacho says, then i’m going.
My lorry is a work place and a temporary home, but it’s not a [zb]ing prison.
I think people may be putting greater faith in the Driver CPC then me.
If we are going to be tutored in drivers hours and tachograph rules, the tutor needs to know them too.
There are only one set of rules, there are lots of people who put their own interpretation on them. It’s those people who slag Beverley Bell & VOSA off on a regular basis. The rules are already agreed by the EU. VOSA didnt make them 
As for Rog pointing out the other question. In my opinion it is the drivers responsibility to keep up with legislation. After all it is the driver who will end up in court, and the driver will be paying the fine.
limeyphil:
Although the tacho rules are quite clear on this matter.
They can’t stop you from going home, weather it is by foot, taxi, hgv, car or whatever means are at your disposal.
The European convension on human rights would see to that.
If i decide to go home, no matter what my tacho says, then i’m going.
My lorry is a work place and a temporary home, but it’s not a [zb]ing prison.
That’s an interesting view and I have a question -
What is to stop a driver doing what they want and going where they want to in their OWN TIME if they are off duty and not being paid etc 
I’m thinking - hitch a lift home and back or get the loved one or friend to pick you up…
ROG:
limeyphil:
Although the tacho rules are quite clear on this matter.
They can’t stop you from going home, weather it is by foot, taxi, hgv, car or whatever means are at your disposal.
The European convension on human rights would see to that.
If i decide to go home, no matter what my tacho says, then i’m going.
My lorry is a work place and a temporary home, but it’s not a [zb]ing prison.That’s an interesting view and I have a question -
What is to stop a driver doing what they want and going where they want to in their OWN TIME if they are off duty and not being paid etc
I’m thinking - hitch a lift home and back or get the loved one or friend to pick you up…
A driver can do what he wants Rog. What he cant do is as suggested in the OP.
He cannot drive till his 15 hours are up or 10 hours driving and then book off in say Leicester and book back on in Northampton unless the company has an O/C in both places.
A driver can sleep on a park bench if desired,
In this scenario, as he reaches 14 hours he could meet his mate in the firms van, swap vehicles and go home in the van. His mate drives the truck onto its destination or back to the depot.
That will be within his daily duty. If he gets delayed again, he can sleep in the fitters van 
I know i’m being pedantic but what is to stop a driver who has used up all driving & duty time parking the truck up and hitching a lift home or to the yard and to hitch that lift in a vehicle from his own company
And if that is ok, what is to stop that company vehicle bringing along a second driver with a set of spare keys to the truck and that second driver taking the truck back to the yard
ROG:
I know i’m being pedantic but what is to stop a driver who has used up all driving & duty time parking the truck up and hitching a lift home or to the yard and to hitch that lift in a vehicle from his own companyAnd if that is ok, what is to stop that company vehicle bringing along a second driver with a set of spare keys to the truck and that second driver taking the truck back to the yard
Absolutely nothing Rog, until VOSA did a fleet check or a routine pull, why doesnt your start and finish mileage match drive? Oh, my mate picked me up,
oh, ok. Have you got your timesheet? clock card, fuel receipt, weighbridge ticket, security records and inside leg measurement for the previous 3 years.
Granted it is a little bit more difficult with a digi card.
Of course on an analogue card you could write a different finishing place, but no one on these forums would do that. Would they?
Wheel Nut:
ROG:
I know i’m being pedantic but what is to stop a driver who has used up all driving & duty time parking the truck up and hitching a lift home or to the yard and to hitch that lift in a vehicle from his own companyAnd if that is ok, what is to stop that company vehicle bringing along a second driver with a set of spare keys to the truck and that second driver taking the truck back to the yard
Absolutely nothing Rog, until VOSA did a fleet check or a routine pull, why doesnt your start and finish mileage match drive? Oh, my mate picked me up,
oh, ok. Have you got your timesheet? clock card, fuel receipt, weighbridge ticket, security records and inside leg measurement for the previous 3 years.
Granted it is a little bit more difficult with a digi card.
Of course on an analogue card you could write a different finishing place, but no one on these forums would do that. Would they?
But what has the driver done wrong…
The driver is allowed to hitch to wherever they want to in their own time.
The company decided to retrieve the truck.
The company send a text to the driver to say that the truck is now at the yard.
I fail to see what the driver has done wrong - I must be missing something…
Night Owl:
also if there are any changes in laws who should inform the drivers ie TM or is it the drivers responsability to keep up todate??
The operator, as part of the terms of their O Licence must ensure the Driver’s Hours Regulations are complied with and as breaches of the regulations will see them in trouble it is in their interest to ensure their drivers are fully conversant with those regulations. However, if a driver is prosecuted for breaches of the tacho rules ignorance is no defence. So, while telling the court my employer did not tell me of changes to the rules may be mitigating circumstances, I don’t think it will stop the driver being fined or losing their licence for a period.
I personally think any driver should take personal responsibility for keeping up to date with any legislation that affects their work, even if that is simply asking the employer for training and guidance. However, having been answering tacho questions on here for many years, which usually begin with - ‘My boss/company trainer/training organisation told me <INSERT ANY OLD MYTH/NONSENSE HERE>’ - I wouldn’t trust any training given by an employer, company trainer or training company without double checking for myself, the 6 hour WTD rule is a classic example of trainers giving duff information.
ROG:
But what has the driver done wrong…The driver is allowed to hitch to wherever they want to in their own time.
The driver can do whatever they want in their own time, and one of the conditions of a daily or weekly rest period is indeed that the driver is free to dispose of their time. However, the regulations are very precise as to when a rest period commences, and until a rest period commences the free to dispose of their time thing doesn’t come into play. So by finishing in a place that isn’t their or their employers base and commencing work in a different place then the driver doesn’t begin his rest period when he parks up and as they are not on rest they are not free to dispose of their time as far as the Driver’s Hours Regulations go.
Scenario A
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. Company send out a car and he uses that vehicle to go home to Luton while the driver who brought out the car drives the truck to Hatfield. The driver takes the car to Hatfield in the morning to return to his vehicle and resumes work.
That is illegal, as is clearly stated in the regulations and has been proved in court by the Skills Coaches case. He begins and ends in a different place so part of the travelling time between the finishing and starting place has to be Other Work.** By travelling home and resuming work in a different place he was not on rest when he parked in Northampton and was therefore not free to dispose of his time.
**NOTE: Not POA as he is out of hours so cannot be free to return to his workstation at any time, a requirement of POA.
Scenario B
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. He then makes his way home to Luton by whatever means, hitching, public transport, being picked up etc. In the morning he returns to Northampton and his vehicle, again by what ever means he chooses, and resumes work. From the time he parked until he returns the next morning he was on a daily rest period and was therefore free to dispose of his time as he wanted. He wanted to go home so he did
That scenario is legal.
ROG:
I fail to see what the driver has done wrong - I must be missing something
You are missing, or not grasping, exactly when a rest period starts as defined by the regulations.
ROG:
Wheel Nut:
ROG:
I know i’m being pedantic but what is to stop a driver who has used up all driving & duty time parking the truck up and hitching a lift home or to the yard and to hitch that lift in a vehicle from his own companyAnd if that is ok, what is to stop that company vehicle bringing along a second driver with a set of spare keys to the truck and that second driver taking the truck back to the yard
Absolutely nothing Rog, until VOSA did a fleet check or a routine pull, why doesnt your start and finish mileage match drive? Oh, my mate picked me up,
oh, ok. Have you got your timesheet? clock card, fuel receipt, weighbridge ticket, security records and inside leg measurement for the previous 3 years.
Granted it is a little bit more difficult with a digi card.
Of course on an analogue card you could write a different finishing place, but no one on these forums would do that. Would they?
But what has the driver done wrong…
The driver is allowed to hitch to wherever they want to in their own time.
The company decided to retrieve the truck.
The company send a text to the driver to say that the truck is now at the yard.I fail to see what the driver has done wrong - I must be missing something…
Simple ROG, the regulations state that the travelling time can not be counted as rest, so if the 13/15 max hours spread-over is exceeded by travelling home you’ve failed to have the required amount of daily rest within the 24 hour period from the start of shift.
You could go the the court of human rights if you so wish but you’ve still not had the required daily rest period as laid down by EU law.
You should be fully aware of these regulations before starting the journey, so by simply starting the journey I would say that you’re basically agreeing to abide by the regulations that will be in-force for the duration of that journey, so how could a human rights hearing help
Having said that of course if a driver wanted to go home by whatever means who would really know, but he/she should be aware of what the rules say
Scenario B
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. He then makes his way home to Luton by whatever means, hitching, walking, being picked up etc. In the morning he returns to Northampton and his vehicle, again by what ever means he chooses, and resumes work. From the time he parked until he returns the next morning he was on a daily rest period and was therefore free to dispose of his time as he wanted. He wanted to go home so he did
That scenario is legal.
What if the truck had been recovered by the company during that time (spare keys) and the driver was informed - lets say by a text - that the truck was now back at the yard
Scenario B
Driver lives in Luton and works in Hatfield. Runs out of time at Northampton having used every minute of his 15 hours, whereupon he switches tacho to rest. He then makes his way home to Luton by whatever means, hitching, walking, being picked up etc. In the morning he returns to Northampton and his vehicle, again by what ever means he chooses, and resumes work. From the time he parked until he returns the next morning he was on a daily rest period and was therefore free to dispose of his time as he wanted. He wanted to go home so he did
That scenario is legal.
Can the driver also make for the yard and pick up own car