Oh the joys of driving into Calais port!

Justice isn’t supposed to be Orgasmic, nor bring any other kind of joy to those involved with it.
Evil action isn’t the same as Justice neither.
Let’s put it another way: If it’s evil for bad guys to make victims of good guys, but not the other way around (standard western practice) or “The majority have to be in the right” (in which case the Chinese and Muslims should rule the world) the world indeed would be a very different place.
One cannot even say “Might is Right” any more, because the balance of power is positioned so many different ways, no single entity has the power to enforce itself upon the rest of the Earth. Many have tried, but ultimately failed because they lacked some resource that perhaps one of the balancing factions has in abundance.
Cheap Life, Huge armed forces, unlimited wealth, streets ahead technology, fantastic “intel” infrastructure to name but a few. Superior morality however is NOT found ANYWHERE, which of course rubbishes the entire concrete-minded argument at a stroke. Is it “Right” or “Wrong” to believe in any particular religion, not believe in one at all, or deny the existance of anything beyond yourself - the ulimate form of base selfishness? That’s scary! Even people that ■■■■ for wealth and power want such things so they can be loved and admired by all those around them. Remove the standard motives, and you’ve removed the standard humanty with it. Who wanted fabulous riches so they could invent merely a better way of killing everyone else on the planet? Who wanted more power so they could wage war with everyone else on the planet? World wars start when everyone else bundles the local “bully” nation - not because that “bully” decides to take on all comers at once.

No world ■■■■■■■■■■ ever being achieved by anyone ever is perhaps the most balancing thing about the world to date. “No one has a monopoly over them all”. Sounds a bit like lord of the rings (which I’m no particular fan of btw)
The same applies to the world’s so-called “main religions”. Animism and Atheism need to be counted among the other main 7, because of the sheer number of people practicing such a lifestyle, which, of course, makes them belief systems in themselves.

It seems overall that those who fear justice actually fear corruption or the miscarriage of justice. To me, such fears are like Howard Hughes’ fear of germs and dirt.
He did everything he could to avoid contact with such things, but in the end died after a perfectly normal range lifespan. What was the point in other words?

My brother believes passionately as you do that “Capital Punishment” is a barbaric practice that belongs consigned to history, and is left associated with factions like the Nazis or the Spanish Inquisition. Well, last time I looked not all the Spanish Inquisition’s victims were “Heretics”, and by no means were all the ■■■■’s victims Jewish. Yet that’s what those particular “victim factions” would respectively have the rest of us believe - That the inquisition was merley “corrupted religious zeal”, and the Nazis were “nothing but the anti-semitic party”.

switchlogic:

Winseer:
Thinking big can sometimes look small because of that main bother of “futility”.

I’d be quite happy to stand as Ukip candidate in my area for example, but I suspect even supplying my own deposit to stand against that two faced tory twit who currently holds the seat won’t guarantee I’d even be given the chance to stand. Without the party apparatus, standing as an independant would also be pretty futile.
The big opportunity might come however should Ukip surge so much in public opinion, that they decide to field a candidate in every seat, rather than just some as at present. :exclamation:

You’re right, turn up with a wad of cash to pay the deposit and expect to get selected without doing any work would be folly! BUT, if you really believe in this stuff, if you really believe in UKIP which from your posts it seems you do, then as a party you could be on the edge of a momentous time in British politics. My advice is get in there, help them, do work canvassing at the next election, become a well known person in your local party, there are other ways of being involved that don’t involve being selected to stand. Most of the people standing will have worked their way up like this. So you seem passionate about your subject so if you start now there’s every possibility you would get selected at a future election if you are good enough. Like I say, be the change you want to see. Too many people just moan to each other and never do anything to stand up for what they believe in. As a UKIP voter it may never be a better time for you, go for it.

(as someone who’s fairly anti-UKIP it was quite hard to say that. But at least you know it’s geniuine)

I’d love to, believe me. I just can’t afford it though. Who’s going to be earning and paying the bills whilst I’m knocking on doors wearing my two-tone rosette? :frowning:
The biggest appeal UKIP has for me is the presentation of “leaving Europe” on a “tell the truth” ticket. A bit like the “big thing we’d like to see out of agencies” mentioned at length on another thread…

At present, we’re lied to about the reasons for staying in. It’s good for business, because it keeps wages down. Access to markets? - My arse! The markets won’t disappear. In fact, more will appear, as the system of trading infrastructure has to be developed that engages Europe from an external positon. This would employee many thousands, even if it creates a beurocracy of our own to rival that of Brussels - The good old law of “Unforseen consequences”. :blush:

As for staying in, and negotiating a better deal - Cameron couldn’t negotiate his way off the A34, so you’ll excuse me if I am of little faith in that regard.
“The uncertainty causes harm to potential new investment inflows”
Well, why put the damned thing off until 2017 then? - Get the damned referendum done, or ruled out forever with all speed! Personally, I’d pump for the former of course. :smiley:

Well said Luke. Just because I don’t want them jumping in the back of my trailer doesn’t mean I don’t empathise.

Luke & Carryfast should have a TV debate with a boxing match at the end.

:slight_smile:

So Carryfast, you’re saying its not enough to kill the criminal, you’d want to make them suffer as a deterrent, in my view that’s almost as bad as whatever the chap did to get the death penalty in the first place.

By all means kill them but that’s enough deterrent, there’s no need to be barbaric about it and lower society to the criminals level.

Let’s bring this large diversion of off-topic debate to a close with a couple of closing arguments:

(1) “Winseer” is not ‘Carryfast wearing a superhero mask’. We might work on opposite shifts though, and look at the coverage we’ve managed to nail down between us on this board? :smiley: :smiley:

(2) Let’s have a light-hearted political look at the whole issue of “bringing back capital punishment”…

:smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:
…my favourite episode from this oh-so-realistic look at the Commons… :slight_smile:

And with that, it’s back to the studio for more about Calais. :grimacing:

That’s that everyone, its over. Lord Winseer has decreed so therefore it must be.

I have to chuckle… the same people that are often on here moaning about how lorry drivers are persecuted by the police and general public seem very quick to persecute those from non-EU states, trying to enter the UK to improve their lives.

switchlogic:
That’s that everyone, its over. Lord Winseer has decreed so therefore it must be.

Steady on! - I’ve got to go through my time at the Commons before thinking about being booted to the “other place” eh?

(This is an opportunity to post a humorous cartoon, or funny anecdote that’s more on topic than we have been of late.)
:stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

“Luke - help me take thith maskth ofth, so I can look upon you with mine own eyes.”

…or more on-topic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-qSS166Jc :frowning:

All very interesting …sometimes funny even…sometimes serious… !!!

Off at a tangent here…a little…Having gleened that Great Britain pays into the EU Coffers the sum oaround
30 Million pound a day (Net) … now can anyone tell me of Five Benefits we derive from being in this highly
priced club…Real benefits for the ordinary man in the street.

And yes agreed…to wait until 2017 for a vote is ludicrous… it needs sorting now !!!

Pullman:
All very interesting …sometimes funny even…sometimes serious… !!!

Off at a tangent here…a little…Having gleened that Great Britain pays into the EU Coffers the sum oaround
30 Million pound a day (Net) … now can anyone tell me of Five Benefits we derive from being in this highly
priced club…Real benefits for the ordinary man in the street.

And yes agreed…to wait until 2017 for a vote is ludicrous… it needs sorting now !!!

We are a member of the largest trading partner in the World
We have not been at war for over 60 years
Employees are much better treated within the EU than they would be outside of it
We have the networks of all the law enforcement agencies and anti terrorist branches at our fingertips
Membership of the EU prevents us from becoming Swiss :stuck_out_tongue:

Of the winners and losers in the EU, we still rank 4th behind Germany, France and Italy as the big spenders. Amongst the lowest spenders are the countries who should never have qualified for membership. Spain, Greece, Portugal and Poland.

Pullman:
All very interesting …sometimes funny even…sometimes serious… !!!

Off at a tangent here…a little…Having gleened that Great Britain pays into the EU Coffers the sum oaround
30 Million pound a day (Net) … now can anyone tell me of Five Benefits we derive from being in this highly
priced club…Real benefits for the ordinary man in the street.

And yes agreed…to wait until 2017 for a vote is ludicrous… it needs sorting now !!!

The Thanet way?

Silver_Surfer:
So Carryfast, you’re saying its not enough to kill the criminal, you’d want to make them suffer as a deterrent, in my view that’s almost as bad as whatever the chap did to get the death penalty in the first place.

By all means kill them but that’s enough deterrent, there’s no need to be barbaric about it and lower society to the criminals level.

Ironically it’s all about the ‘motives’ and intentions for making the criminal suffer a horrendous end as opposed to a quick easy one in this case that shows that my idea is not about lowering society to the criminal’s level at all.

The difference in this case being that there should be no pleasure whatsoever in that as just like the sanction itself at the judgement stage should be based on trying to make the deterrent factor as effective as possible,in which case,just maybe, it might be a case of taking the life of a criminal,in a way which isn’t an easy way out for the criminal or society,in order to save the life of another potential victim from the actions of another similar type of criminal in future.The important bit is in knowing that what you’re doing is being undertaken with the utmost reluctance with just that aim in mind nothing more.

Now compare that with your idea in which you’ve stated it ‘warms the heart’ to see a criminal swinging from a crane in Iran in which the action taken certainly doesn’t match the motives of those which I’ve described above.The same can also be described of the casual way in which the death sentence was used here before it was ( rightly ) removed from the statute books for that reason in cases such as those of Ruth Ellis and Derek Bently who certainly didn’t fit the description of convicts who should ever have faced such a sentence.

In which case it was the fact that the quick,relatively easy way out,of hanging,was used to sanitise the real fact of what the death sentence is ( should be ) all about ( IE as I’ve described above a deterrent to,try to,stop those committing the worst types of crimes against society ) that eventually led to it’s over casual use in British justice and which then (rightly ) resulted in it’s removal. :bulb:

Whereas if it was the the electric chair,instead of quick sanitised hanging,then maybe societal revulsion,would have been enough,to save the lives of those like Derek Bently and Ruth Ellis by not allowing them to face such a scanction by it being reserved only for very specialised types of cases in regards to equally very specialised types of criminals,considering the circumstances concerning the crimes in question in those two cases. :bulb:

While just maybe also stopping some of the worst types of crimes which we’ve seen committed against society.By having a sanction available to the courts,which is effective enough in it’s severity,to make it’s use one reserved for only the very worst types of crimes,with the aim of being a deterrent.Rather than something quick,easy and casual like hanging which society can feel more easy with as before,‘as you describe it’ to appease those looking for Iranian type justice for Iranian type motives. :bulb:

As for the topic.
In the case of UKIP’s supposed idea,that leaving the EU would stop the immigration problem,which we’ve had here since long before we joined it and the party’s motives in wanting to leave the EU in general.The former is just electoral propaganda bs while in the case of the latter it’s more about the banking and big business interests now seeing more of an advantage for them in the global free market economy than they saw in 1973 by joining the EEC.In neither case are they doing it to benefit the ordinary British working classes.

So absolutely let’s leave the EU but not for UKIP’s probable reasons in wanting to do so in which it’s difficult to believe that the basically Tory thinking UKIP would want to stop the British economiy’s historic reliance on cheap labour to benefit big business and large or even small employers. :bulb:

Britain is full of people that live in the past. In my 31 years of being alive I have noticed that people tend to still live in the 70’s

Derf… The Thanet Way ■■?
Trust you :slight_smile:

By the way Derf… Pullman is Neville…i lost my log in details from previous and re-registered.
Now very Semi-Retired…but likely to change soon :slight_smile:
Trust your well.

Wasn’t the Thanet Way funded by the EU? I’m pretty sure the road from Ramsgate to Dover also had a large ‘funded by the EU’ sign on it when they were tarting it up.

Given when I lived on Planet Thanet I used both those roads many, many times (certainly more than 5) I feel I have reaped the rewards from the UK’s payments to the EU…

Neville, I am more than well, I’ve not stepped foot in a truck in over 6 years and never been happier :wink:

(Likely to change as in full retirement, or an exciting project on the horizon?)