Off to work then?

See here’s the thing, and some of it does sound petty, but the places you’ve been on for which offer “premium uplift” or whatever words you use to spout that waffle, pay the money so I’d suggest that can reasonably expect things to be done their way. They are paying for that privelege.

Its part reason why I’m still where I am. I can go five mins down the A5 for a “premium uplift” but I understand everything that comes with it regarding rules, processes etc etc. That’s not for me. Dont get me wrong, I’m not in a minimum wage bandit outfit but its got the right balance between reward and interference for me.

However, they do pay for my time so whatever they say I do. All part of “staying off the radar”, you’ve mentioned two specific things in your post (cutting walkways, changing route) and however daft they sound and however much money your route may save, the fact remains that you didn’t follow their instruction or policies. You’ve admitted that.

So yeah its petty, and very symptomatic of those types of places, but they’re just paying to you follow rules and leave your initiative at the door. However mad that sounds, that’s all you need to do.

toonsy:
So yeah its petty, and very symptomatic of those types of places, but they’re just paying to you follow rules and leave your initiative at the door. However mad that sounds, that’s all you need to do.

^^^

toonsy:
See here’s the thing, and some of it does sound petty, but the places you’ve been on for which offer “premium uplift” or whatever words you use to spout that waffle, pay the money so I’d suggest that can reasonably expect things to be done their way. They are paying for that privelege.

Its part reason why I’m still where I am. I can go five mins down the A5 for a “premium uplift” but I understand everything that comes with it regarding rules, processes etc etc. That’s not for me. Dont get me wrong, I’m not in a minimum wage bandit outfit but its got the right balance between reward and interference for me.

However, they do pay for my time so whatever they say I do. All part of “staying off the radar”, you’ve mentioned two specific things in your post (cutting walkways, changing route) and however daft they sound and however much money your route may save, the fact remains that you didn’t follow their instruction or policies. You’ve admitted that.

So yeah its petty, and very symptomatic of those types of places, but they’re just paying to you follow rules and leave your initiative at the door. However mad that sounds, that’s all you need to do.

I’ll give you credit for the observations you’ve made on your own account there.

I’m of course taken aback at how rank-and-file workers are feeling the need to initiate my departure, when any attempt that I might make (as full timer or agency) to drop anyone else in the crapper in the same manner - tends to have me as the pariah again that way around as well…
It would make perfect sense, if I were reducing the amount of money they get, or walking around leering at the women, being surly and aggressive towards people, which isn’t nor wasn’t ever me.

I have not realized since the last year’s events - that the price one pays for top dollar is to be treated like crap at every term, even if I fail to yet understand the exact reasons why that is…
Do you think I give a hoot that Joe Bloggs has cut a corner somewhere? We should only be pulling each other up for things that’ll reduce our pay as a firm “Team Effort”, or are actually illegal “If you notice your workmate nicking stuff, or covering up damage they’ve done”…

I dislike this seeming “Office Politics” thing where offenders greater than I ever could be - get away with it time and time again, because their faces fit, whereas I was still regarded as “The Boy” after 20 years as a full timer at RM, so it isn’t me being “Agency” that’s ■■■■■■■ on my chips here…

“Switching off my brains” - is hard to do. There was me thinking that “premium money” is about “decent driving”, rather than “mindless rule-following”…

Winseer:

R420:

Winseer:

tmcassett:
Winseer, you always bring up the fact you get no infringements, have perfect driving scores, do all the undesirable shifts no-one else wants blah blah blah yet time and time again you find yourself being forced out of places you are working at and refuse to believe it is something you are doing or saying.

You never hear of anyone else having the same issues you describe. Naturally you believe you are doing nothing wrong, but you must be doing something you are not aware of!

I was told to clean up my act, and I did. I got pushed out anyway. References were made to past sins already de-briefed by that point.
I’ve been told “The thing you do wrong - is argue the toss when we want to get rid of you for no specific reason, because we are not legally obliged to give you one”.

In other words “I’m unpopular because I push back”.

Presumably, I’m supposed to go quietly into the night, “never ask why”…

So you’ve been doing agency work for probably a decade or more (judging from your posts here) and after all this time you still haven’t figured out not to argue back and keep your gob shut? No wonder you’ve got nowhere left to work. You’ve only got yourself to blame for being so dumb. It’s rule number 1 to go in, do the job exactly as instructed and keep your head down; that’s how you end up working there long term by building up a rapport with the office wallahs and transport planners who liaise with the agencies. You seem to spend all your time getting into altercations and arguments with their permies over all sorts of silly and pointless nonsense so unsurprisingly you quickly get labelled as being a nob and the permies conspire to force you out at every chance they get.

You can argue until you’re blue in the face about how ‘right’ you were to “argue the toss” and “push back” but that only stands some small chance of working when you’re a long-standing permie driver with a clean record and you have a shop steward backing you up. It absolutely does NOT work when you’re an agency driver… as your long history of “they don’t want to use you anymore” whinges prove.

I’m willing to bet if there was a poll here “if you owned a haulage company, would you employee Winseer as a driver (or in any other capacity for that matter)?” at least 95% of the answers would be a firm ‘no’, possibly even 100%. That should tell you everything you need to know. You need to change your attitude and you need to stop contradicting yourself. In a post a couple of weeks back you claimed that you kept your head down and just got on with the job, but here you are admitting that you “argue the toss” and “push back”. If you can’t figure it out from this then there is no helping you. You’ve been told enough times but it’s like you’ve got your fingers in your ears. Go see a shrink and get professional help.

I’ve only ever started to argue and push back - once the abuse starts.
To start with, at any place I’ve worked - I’m left alone, and I keep stumn myself, just getting on with the job, and trying to keep my head down as you mention.
Then I start getting grassed up for minor things like “parking tractor in wrong part of yard” or “cutting corners on walkways”, or on one occasion - having a quick quip at a warehouseman who’d opened my back door within seconds of me backing a trailer onto that bay on a green light, but before I’d even got out of the cab to start de-coupling that trailer! Unsafe!! I was the one who got accused of “backing onto a red light” though, full timer can’t do no wrong, sadly… It was his word against mine “who’d committed the unsafe act”, and he just lied to drop me in it.
I duly get carpeted, but now I have the management watching me like hawks all the time, and moaning if I so much as go down a street that’s not on the official map, but legal to use nonetheless…
I suggest that if ANY of us got subjected to such close scrutiny, any of us would be picked apart by any overzealous bod using the company surveillance kit to make my life a misery, which would seem to be a mis-use of such kit, at least it would be to a Unionized Full Timer, who are all-too-often the ones doing the abusing sadly…

I even put in a grievance when I was at Brakes for this kind of behaviour from management:

“This is a food delivery business - not MI5”.

You might be correct on your social assumptions to a certain extent, but the more forward-looking employer - is going to think more along the lines of
Can he drive the truck from A to B in the cheapest way possible for company costs and liabilities?
or
“Is he a financial liability in any way other than he puts a lot of hours in, something which we appreciate here?”

If one is a “jobsworth” manager, who worries more about “this upstart making us look bad” - then my days there will of course be numbered.

We’ll know by the end of the year if such an out-moded way of running a firm - brings it down - won’t we?

As above, you are doing something that is upsetting people (whether you are conscious of it or not). No-one else has the problems you continuously describe.

I have worked at quite a few places both agency and full-time and I am by no means perfect - I have had the odd minor tacho infringement, been pulled up by the shunter/depot jobsworth for straying off the walkway a few feet, dropping trailer in wrong place etc etc. Also have had many a conversation with fellow drivers or office staff about going my own way to a store/depot (legally) as opposed to what the “risk assessment” says because it is quicker/better/easier (delete as appropriate) and yet I have never found myself being “pushed out” of anywhere as what seems to happen to you.

tmcassett:
I have worked at quite a few places both agency and full-time and I am by no means perfect - I have had the odd minor tacho infringement, been pulled up by the shunter/depot jobsworth for straying off the walkway a few feet, dropping trailer in wrong place etc etc. Also have had many a conversation with fellow drivers or office staff about going my own way to a store/depot (legally) as opposed to what the “risk assessment” says because it is quicker/better/easier (delete as appropriate) and yet I have never found myself being “pushed out” of anywhere as what seems to happen to you.

Same here. I would love to be a fly on the wall at these places he’s working. I strongly suspect the reality would differ considerably from the “woe is me” whining he posts on here. He strikes me as one of those bolshy ‘I KNOW MY RIGHTS’ agency types; you see them at every place you go and they never last more than a few days until they get told to sling their hook. He seems to think he’s more important than he actually is because he believes he’s helping them out by doing the “premium uplift” shifts. Delusions of grandeur.

Winseer:
I don’t think I was the only one to not get paid… From a business angle it might have been worked out by management on both sides (client and agency) as follows:

(1) Do you have enough work for this bod to make up between 20% and 100% of their former regular hours they were working…?
If so, then give them the 20% exactly (one shift out of the five they used to do…) so that when we pay them 20% of their former wage for doing 20% of the work - we can claim the other 80% from the government, and everyone’s happy. We’re getting his services for the usual cost to us, and we’re keeping them on as being wanted when this is all over.

(2) There is NOT enough work left for this bod to get 20%, so we’ll stand them down on nothing at all. We don’t want to be paying them 20% with the government making up the other 80%, so we’ll just let that person sit at home, still on the books here, but getting no work for some time to come. If they leave of their own accord in the meantime, then we have not fraudulently applied for furlough grant in this person’s name/number on the books.

(3) There’s no work for ANYONE - in which case we’ll have to fold the agency, as there’s no way we can afford to make up the 20% for our people to sit at home not earning at the client’s yard…
OR… We can enter into an agreement with stood-down drivers - ALL of them - that they might accept 75% of their pay (for example) which would allow the grant to cover this amount of payroll, and leave us with 5% to pocket to cover our own administrative process…

My beef with all this was that the client can pick and choose which people they want to ask for “by name”, so that johnny blue eyes gets their 20% of shifts, and qualifies for any furlough payment - at no cost to neither client or agency NET. Any reasons at all why someone else, such as myself - can’t have 20% of their former hours - means that we could be paid, but let’s just get rid of them by the backdoor instead, which just isn’t honest, as I suspect that had I been directly dismissed for any actual proper reason - any cliam for a furlough grant by the wider business, at least for that one location of that business chain - might be put in danger of being “Fraudulent”. FIrms are not supposed to pay furlough to some, and let go others. It was meant to be an “Everyone” or “No one” on a location-by-location basis.

I have heard of some other examples of such practices by agency/client yard team-ups in the last few weeks NOT me this time around, but like those other people on here who didn’t get the furlough they may have been expecting…

Here’s the scam:

Firm wants you to “resign” so they don’t get into trouble. Agency bod refuses, and insists on being dismissed, if the firm has any objections that could lead to an actual fair and square dismissal.

Firm then calls bod into office, and shows them some firm’s camera footage of say, driver speeding, or using a phone whilst driving…
Firm then says “Resign, or we submit this camera data to VOSA where you will get points on your licence, and no doubt a fine. What do you want to do driver?”
Driver resigns, as they already have 9 points on their licence, and there are still plenty of other places that’ll take you on with that. NO one will take any driver on with a ban in place though.
Driver has successfully been bullied out of the door, constructively dismissed.

Here’s another scam:

Driver starts working at yard, and starts to date one of the girls that works there in admin, say a 20 something Eastern European girl.
Acting Manager who got dumped by same girl a few weeks back, before new driver had even started - builds up evidence on new driver, and then runs a situation similar to the first example above - to get rid of them, and resign.
Driver doesn’t turn up any more, and maybe Girl quits as well. Either way, Acting Manager - has got their revenge by mis-using firm’s facilities to ruin not one - but TWO people’s private lives in this example.

This wouldn’t be possible of course, if we were all peter perfects, never getting tacho infringements, never running late, never going down the wrong street, and never rubbing acting managers up the wrong way with long-winded arguments - all of which someone like me has been guilty of in the past, I make no bones about it.

The trouble with “acting managers” is that most of them are ex-drivers who know all the dodges we mere mortal drivers might partake in.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again though:

“The long-term work atmosphere - becomes a hell when one promotes former Poachers into Gamekeepers - and gives them computers to facillitate their miseries upon any underling they so single out for punishment.”

Union or No Union - doesn’t make any difference, because if there IS a Union these “acting managers” will be of some standing within it, and if there’s NO Union - there won’t be any third parties there to act “watching the watchers” if you will. :frowning:

How many other Non-driving businesses - could do with a cull of acting managers at this point?

…Perhaps by the time this “crisis” is all over, they will find themselves being “surplus to requirements” in due course.

I’ve never heard of anyone being prosecuted for “mis-using company computer kit to abuse staff”. In any normal time, - it might be considered “Gross Misconduct” in it’s own right…?

The big flaw in your argument is that there is absolutely no need to “dismiss” an agency driver. They can stop using whoever they want when they want and don’t need to go through any formal process or disciplinary. Yes drivers can be banned for specific reasons but in a lot of cases they can simply not book certain drivers and not have to provide an explanation. This is the reality of life as an agency driver, what you gain on flexibility and rates you lose on security.

ATJT:
The big flaw in your argument is that there is absolutely no need to “dismiss” an agency driver. They can stop using whoever they want when they want and don’t need to go through any formal process or disciplinary. Yes drivers can be banned for specific reasons but in a lot of cases they can simply not book certain drivers and not have to provide an explanation. This is the reality of life as an agency driver, what you gain on flexibility and rates you lose on security.

Ding ding ding…

We have a winner.

Just wish it had been posted two pages ago. :laughing:

If would have been better for me if I’d been actually sacked though, so I didn’t then waste two weeks waiting for the bloody phone to ring, before realizing that I wouldn’t be going back…! :imp:

“Lack of Honesty” there…

Winseer:
If would have been better for me if I’d been actually sacked though, so I didn’t then waste two weeks waiting for the bloody phone to ring, before realizing that I wouldn’t be going back…! :imp:

“Lack of Honesty” there…

Surely you know that…

A - Agencies, bar odd exceptions, have zero loyalty. Certainly towards drivers anyway.

B - If you’re zero hours (as in no GUARANTEES) then surely to must understand there is a chance you might get… zero hours.

You’re still employed by the agency. They don’t need to sack you. They don’t have any liability to give you any work either. If you’ve chucked all your eggs in the “premium uplift” basket waiting for one to hatch and none have then who is to blame?

A phone is a two way communication device allowing you to make AND receive calls. Get signed up with somewhere else, take a lower rate or a non preferred shift, because a lower rate or a crappier shift now is better than nothing now?

I’m sorry I don’t mean to come across as unsympathetic or anything, but for gods sake man show some gumption and get out there and do something about it instead of rambling on here all day long.

Have you had that other assessment yet?

Did I mention anything about another assessment?

I got told that the same shift availability would be the case at this so-called “alternative” venue, i.e. I’d still be getting zero work… Thus, decided to sit on the books until a paid shift came along, rather than some unpaid wild goose chase… They’ve not finished paying me my holiday pay in dribs and drabs as of yet, so there’s no hurry for me to either do any “assessments” nor hand in my resignation to suit any “waive of responsibility” agenda neither. Indeed, it was only them withholding the holiday pay initially, that gave me a couple of weeks of no pay, as it turned out in the end… I’ve also got my refund for what was on my catering card to come. I woulnd’t think it would be very appeasing of laundering legislation if it turned out such money could either be “deleted” or “confiscated” - would it?

Fairly certain the flying squad won’t be busting down the doors for the sake of a few quid on a canteen card…

I remember you saying a few weeks back you had a potential assessment lined up somewhere?

toonsy:
Fairly certain the flying squad won’t be busting down the doors for the sake of a few quid on a canteen card…

I remember you saying a few weeks back you had a potential assessment lined up somewhere?

The Flying squad might not be interested, but whoever deals with “Money Laundering” these days - might well be if these totally unnecessary cards - deem to be “vehicles for making money disappear” - where exactly?

It isn’t legal for firms to act as banks where they “freeze funds” without a court order, put it that way…

Hot water could ensue, just as it could also ensue if it turns out that the furlough issue ended up becoming a wealth-distribution excercise in favour of Unionized workforces over everyone else, let’s say…

Issues like this - are out of my hands. I’ve had my moan, and I’ve already made my report as to the “Moral Hazards” of permitting firms to make decisions based on favouritism where the Law demands that all be treated equally in this country, financially at least…

I don’t need to do an assessment to work at a place I’m already cleared to work, just as I don’t need to do another assessment to get back to where I was before. It was a policy decision that can be overturned, but in all likelyhood won’t be… I’m not the one likely to lose anything further out of it going on though, as I’ve already put my contingency into operation.

…Just think, when all this is over - There’s going to be little work to dish out by agencies, and they too find out they have been used by the client firms, who jumped at the chance to shaft them, the same as they talked the agencies into shafting their disapproved-of members, who are still on the books, don’t forget. Those agencies that survive, will most likely be the ones who are a bit more fussy as to whom they take on to start with, rather than this “5 times as many drivers as they actually are ever likely to need at any one point”… The “Six Points OK” culture - looks like being doomed, which is good for everyone else out there who are already sick to death of the outgoing “Agency Culture” eh?

Meanwhile, the client firms will likely poach those “Yes” drivers they can find, leaving the agency with just those staff that are not being placed anywhere, myself included.
Like Lehman Brothers with the CDOs - eventually the agency finds that everyone still on their books is “unplaceable”, and the agency collapses very suddenly, with the last ones out - faring the worst of all.
There’s even the added possiblity that later this year, when the lockdown finally ends, but with social distancing still in place, the larger firms wake up to the fact that it is actually now quite HARD to get by as a “big firm”, because of all the legal obligations one has towards “public safety”. Small firms will proliferate to fill this “culture vacuum”, and more people will end up working for private firms on direct contracts where they have some say in how that contract works… America has been doing this for over a century already of course… Britain thus becomes more like America in that regard. Not a bad thing, if you happen to believe in what Trump is doing rather than what the loony left are trying to stop… The astute worker, realizes they can write their own ticket, and prompty does, whilst the risk-averse worker - just bends over and takes their ever-inferior “new contract” as the firms push them upon that group of workforce, not realizing that both sides are signing their death warrents, as Stobarts did some time ago imo, and now the “crowd” employers are likely to as well, imo… Christmas this year? - won’t happen at all if I’m correct, won’t happen @ agency/Big Client Firm partnerships I mean… :smiling_imp:

Meanwhile, let’s hope that the barrel doesn’t keep on being scraped to find the next “Yes” drivers, as I put it…

People are dying. :frowning:

i’m off to work 6 am tomorrow :slight_smile:
7 weeks of furlough…mainly cleaning up the house,sorting out my shed,garage,greenhouse,and soaking up the rays in the garden :sunglasses:
now back to reality…

carryfast-yeti:
i’m off to work 6 am tomorrow :slight_smile:
7 weeks of furlough…mainly cleaning up the house,sorting out my shed,garage,greenhouse,and soaking up the rays in the garden :sunglasses:
now back to reality…

I think everyone was back yesterday. Roads have been significantly busier and only a smidgen away from ‘normal’, traffic wise.

I concur.

The commuter traffic looks normal, so I would guess that Teachers and other furloughed people not going back - are not the ones hogging the M25 that we see every day…

I wonder how many people might take a second look at their work/life balance now that they’ve possibly got to go back to some dreary office job in town, spending all the extra money they get commuting that far - on the actual commute…

Fuel isn’t going down much more now, Oil is back up above $30, and having troughed as low as 42c last month - diesel and unleaded prices are back above $1.00 per gallon as well.

If you can get 97.7p/litre this week - I suggest you fill up at that price…

I agree about work/life. Its something I’ve considered these past four weeks. I essentially dropped by £150ish a week which is obviously a lot less of a drop than some other more unfortunate folk.

But now I’m back at work, doing the same hours as I was pre lockdown looking back and wondering if that drop impacted me in any real way? I mean all my bills have been paid, my savings haven’t been touched, food was plenty available and there was still enough to treat the family to some bits and bibs online.

Previously I had thought I “needed” to do those hours but the reality is I actually waste a lot of money on tat, my core outgoings are fine so now I’m considering jacking it in and getting a more sociable job for less money. Obviously not daft enough to look now, but certainly going forward its something under heavy consideration.

That’s the ticket now… Work less hours, take home a higher precentage of those hours you do… Once the crisis period is over, the taxes are almost certainly going to be hiked, so now would be a good time to get that tax bill down a bit as well, of course…

Of course, as far as our EE colleagues are concerned - “Been there, done that” for a long time since already!

Cutting overheads is the key now.

Less wasted on commutes, including the School Run for the time being - cutbacks in wastage on the home front as well. More meals cooked beyond 19:00hrs on economy 7 rate, for instance. The electric cooker is by far the biggest user of electricity in the house!

My car even does more miles to the gallon on a decent run out, rather than just driving about in slow in-town traffic…

“Less is more” all the way now.